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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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OSAS discussion without using scripture
- Thread starter DRS81
- Start date
I know the Scripture and what it plainly teaches. And loss of inheritance here is NOT loss of salvation. As Paul said, "do not be deceived".
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
[/QUOTE]
If this verse means loss of salvation, then such sins were not "taken away" by Christ in His death on the cross. Is that your view? 'Cuz that certainly is not what the Scriptures plainly teach. Jn 1:29 is real clear: the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world. Not just some of them.
Your view has Christ only taking some sins away, but not your list in v.9.
Clearly, he does warn us of that. Again, if he was referring to loss of entrance into heaven, then Christ simply did NOT die for all sins. That is ludicrous.
Correct. Believers should NOT fellowship with immoral believers.
I did, and more than that. I explained what they mean to you.
<sigh>
Your view means that Christ did NOT die for all sins. That is false. John the baptizer exclaimed, "Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world!!" That is fact. Your view is in error.
I didn't try to. I explained them to you.
Did Christ die for all sins or not? That is the proper question. Anyone who has believed in Christ for eternal life, HAS eternal life. Period.
Then you must conclude and DEFEND the idea that Christ didn't die for all sins. What other sins did He not die for?
OK, so, we'll just add these sins to the ones that Christ didn't die for. What else?
btw, King David committed adultery. Guess he didn't enter in, huh.
Who teaches that one who has believed "can keep living sinfully"? That's weird. Your view trashes the doctrine of reward for obedience, and that Christ didn't die for all sins. You have no evidence for your false belief system.
But your view is that certain sins will keep one out of heaven. So please be consistent and quit bouncing around.
None of the warning verses say that lack of repentance of any certain sins will keep one out of heaven. Behavior by God's children will be either:
1. rewarded in eternity
2. result in loss of rewards, and heavy discipline during their life on earth.
Your view seems totally unfamiliar with these important doctrines.
All sin was paid for, and forgiveness comes from one's faith in Christ. God doesn't take back His forgiveness if any of His children keep sinning. The Bible is clear; expect discipline for willful sin, and expect loss of great reward in eternity.
Nothing here about loss of salvation. If you think so, you're just "seeing" things.
Ashamed of what, exactly? Loss of reward, specifically.
Another huge problem with your view is that certain verses speak of "not losing what you have WORKED for". 1 Jn 8 is one of them. That verse would indicate that our salvation is worked for, which is blasphemous and destroys grace.
What is being warned about is loss of rewards, but your view does not have a Biblical view of rewards.
If this verse means loss of salvation, then such sins were not "taken away" by Christ in His death on the cross. Is that your view? 'Cuz that certainly is not what the Scriptures plainly teach. Jn 1:29 is real clear: the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world. Not just some of them.
Your view has Christ only taking some sins away, but not your list in v.9.[/QUOTE]
My view has unrepentant Christians who are living an ungodly lifestyle of sexual immorality being denied entrance into God's Kingdom on judgement day!
Read it for yourself.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
These are Christians, Brothers in Christ, that Paul is warning.
Do you believe that born again Christians who are professed homosexuals can live as homosexuals and never repent and still be saved?
Please answer Yes or No.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
Did you forget? When they get posted the plain words get redefined, and reinterpreted, or ignored altogether so they don't mean what they plainly say anymore. So many in the church have this ugly habit of doing that to guard their pet doctrines.
Why do you fear non-OSAS? I know why but I want you to say it. I'll tell you exactly why we are to fear OSAS doctrine. The present condition of the church being the evidence of why.
th1b.taylor
Member
JLB,
I will not be so rude as to ignore the OP's instructions. His misguided no scripture stands. On the other hand you and I can debate this issue with the scriptures until eternity ends, as if it ever did, and you would still ignore the portions of scripture that have brought you to this point and you will still ignore them and we will have had another silly argument that has naught to do with salvation.
Obadiah
Member
Just my
here, but I tend to agree with Mr. Taylor on this. Not sure of what the real motives were of the OP to stipulate no scripture can be used, but in a theological discussion this is illogical to me. Theology is by definition the study of God. Stipulating no scripture allowed is saying God isn't allowed to have a say in a study about Himself. How would any of you feel if you were summoned to court on a case about yourself, but were told you weren't allowed to offer any explanation or defense for whatever you are being examined over? In my opinion, that's pretty much what we are doing to God when we say we are going to discuss and debate over what He says, but we aren't allowed to state what He actually said. Doesn't seem proper to me.
There is no debate!
There is no scripture that can validate OSAS.
One has to completely ignore, just like you are ding right here and now, the plain words of scripture to come up with that unscriptural doctrine.
Read it for yourself.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
These are Christians, Brothers in Christ, that Paul is warning.
JLB
Just my
Theology is by definition the study of God. Stipulating no scripture allowed is saying God isn't allowed to have a say in a study about Himself. How would any of you feel if you were summoned to court on a case about yourself, but were told you weren't allowed to offer any explanation or defense for whatever you are being examined over? In my opinion, that's pretty much what we are doing to God when we say we are going to discuss and debate over what He says, but we aren't allowed to state what He actually said. Doesn't seem proper to me.
Yes sir.
Doesn't seem logical at all.
JLB
th1b.taylor
Member
I understand your view. Please define the meaning of "repent" and unrepentant".
Correct. But loss of salvation isn't SAID, suggested, or intimated.
I'm not interested in who professes to be a Christian. If they are truly born again, they have become a child of God. There is NOTHING in Scripture that teaches that God will discard any of His children. There is plenty about God promising (warning) His children of severe discipline, as well as loss of eternal rewards. But since these doctrines are hardly taught anymore, many believers are ignorant of them.
Instead of OSAS, how about once a child of God, always a child of God.
Just as an imperfect human being wouldn't discard their children (I'm speaking of those parents who take their responsibilities seriously, not the flakes and idiots), neither will God.
God will NOT discard any of His children. The answer is "no". If that shocks you, I suggest that you need to review the meaning of grace.
See? Yer doing it again. What you think the words "plainly say" is really only what you think they mean. And I've given a very reasonable and Biblically based explanation of WHY your understanding is contrary to Scripture.
Exactly what I see y'all doing repeatedly. God WILL NOT discard any of His children. No decent human parent would do that, and God is sure a far better Father than any human.
Remember who is holding whose hand. Jn 10:28,29. Just as any decent parent holds tightly to his child's hand for security, so also God the Father holds us in His hand. If He lets go, there is no grace. Which you aren't getting.
Are you serious? What makes you fear you guys? My point is that you have no defense for your doctrine. No Scripture that says what you believe and claim. And I've shown you verses that refute your ideas.
The present condition of the church is because of the failure of pastors teaching the whole realm of doctrine.
Your so-called solution to the very real problem is just a guilt trip in order to "hopefully" get believers to act better.
Wrong. John 10:28-29 illustrates that it is the Father who holds the hand of His children, not the other way around, as your view presents.
Also, Paul told us that nothing (things present or things future) will separate us (His children) from the love of God in Christ.
And, again, nothing in that verse that SAYS that one will lose salvation. It is loss of inheritance IN the kingdom. The problem continues to be a failure to understand the 2 kinds of inheritance. One based on being a child of God, the other based on effort.
When those are conflated, confusion and false doctrine reigns.
th1b.taylor
Member
AMEN!
- 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
- 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Loss of salvation is most certainly the topic of Paul's warning, which is exactly what not inherit the kingdom means.
I just don't see how you would argue with this.
Not inheriting the kingdom is being sentenced to hell along with the devil.
This is the meaning of this phrase as spoken by Jesus, which is where Paul learned the phrase.
Inherit the kingdom = partaker of God's Kingdom on the Day of Judgement.
Not inherit the kingdom = you are not a partaker of God's kingdom on the Day of Judgement: sentenced to everlasting fires of hell with the devil and his angels.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
Look out, I sense another redefining of terms coming on, LOL!
I will use a scripture to define what I mean by repent.
20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Revelation 2:20-21
and again -
21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. Revelation 9:21
Repent: To turn away from doing evil and turn to God and do righteousness.
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
If you know the way of Truth and righteousness and do not practices righteousness, then you yourself hold the truth in unrighteousness.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1:18
JLB
n2thelight
Member
I reckon that would be as relevant as your using wrong scripture out of context, assuming everything given John was a vision, and misapplying what Jesus' angel signified to John to metaphors. I'll start of by saying your stance against OSAS is totally false doctrine. Prove me wrong without scripture. WAIT! What is eternal, how about everlasting, God will never leave or forsake us, and though we no longer believe, Jesus continues faithful to us, will in no way cast us out, and not erase us from the book of life.
Can we also restrict our ideas to not use crazy pastes from some organization that attempts to sell the word of God, and uses copy-written translations to make even more money off God's people?
That would be correct,He won't leave us,however we can leave Him,thus making OSAS false
Jethro Bodine
Member
If that were true, then salvation is earned by behavior. Is that what you are defending for fiercely? Certainly seems so.
What ever happened to God's grace in your view?
I've given you a very thorough explanation of the 2 kinds of inheritance. One is based strictly on relationship (Rom 8:17a), and the other one is based strictly on performance (Rom 8:17b).
OK, you're just not listening. But it's been explained. And you haven't refuted it in any way.
I reject the notion that getting to heaven is based on performance. That's just works salvation, which is what the Pharisees believed.
I asked this:
I understand your view. Please define the meaning of "repent" and unrepentant".
So if you don't define what you mean, how can I understand anything you post?
I sense that you may not want to define the word.
I understand your view. Please define the meaning of "repent" and unrepentant".
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I asked for YOUR definition. I have no idea what YOU mean when you talk about "unrepentant sin", which is the current subject between us.Look out, I sense another redefining of terms coming on, LOL!
So if you don't define what you mean, how can I understand anything you post?
I sense that you may not want to define the word.