OSAS is biblical truth.

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Not sure of your translation? Are you a Christian? Do you believe the scriptures to be Gods Word, and Christ to be the crucified and begotten Son of God?

The www.2001translation.com is the one I used.
What bearing does my trust in the words written is scripture have to do with me pointing out what the scriptures say?

As far as the topic goes, specifically the letter to the Ephesians, here's a quick synopsis and it really doesn't seem to support OSAS.

Paul, an Apostle of the Anointed Jesus (by the Will of God), to the Holy Ones in Ephesus those faithful ones in the Anointed Jesus….you have died to the ways of sin and error that you once walked in…..I urge you to be worthy of the calling that you've received….You must not continue in the path that the nations are following!.......... Don’t sadden the Holy Breath of God that you were sealed with on the Day that your ransom was paid! 31 Get rid of all…..that’s bad……….Become imitators of God as His loved children, and keep on walking in love……..Because, you already recognize and know that all those who are immoral, unclean, and greedy (which really amounts to being idol worshipers) won’t have an inheritance in the Kingdom of the Anointed One and of God. Don’t allow anyone to seduce you into using empty words. For, it’s because of things like this that the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. So, don’t join in with them, because; although you were once dark, you are now light in the Lord. So, keep walking as children of light!...... For, our fight isn’t against flesh and blood, but against the governments, the authorities, the mighty ones of this worldly darkness, and against the unseen power of wickedness in the heavens. Because of this, take up the complete armor of God [so you can] fight in that wicked day and still be found standing in the end.

 

[JLB]

Sorry, no. This verse is part of a greater discourse which starts at verse 17 after He healed a man on the Sabbath.

"The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. 16 And this was why the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did this on the sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working still, and I am working." 18 This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God."

He then continues with the discourse:

"Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you,..."

This discourse was obviously given to "the Jews", not to saved believers. If this isn't enough to convince you, in verses 37-40, in the same discourse, He chastises "them".

"37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen;
38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.
39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

Obviously not spoken to believers. If so, OSAS is false because these "believers" refuse to come to Him.

Now the Father is telling believers about eternal security and the Son Is the one teaching. If we believe the Father and what is being said we will KNOW and believe in eternal security. If we do not believe in what the Father is telling us, we will not know eternal security and believe that we live in limbo and have no security from the Father.

Again, this is not even close to what the verse says, nor is it what you claimed in your last post. You said: "The judgment in this verse is an eternal judgement, so one must conclude that once the subject or object believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will never lose his salvation." This is your main point, that eternal security rests on faith in Christ alone. This verse does not even come close to making your point.

But I still see that no one from the conditional security camp will deal with the facts stated about Eph 2:8

If you will break down Eph 2:8 and prove the OP wrong about the Greek language then you will have a platform for my ears. So far nothing.

I did an exegesis on this passage, you ignored it. Why do I have to break down the Greek to know this verse doesn't back up your contention either? Here is what I wrote previously;

Take Eph. 2:8: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God."

Can I reject the gift? Yes or no. Can I accept the gift, then, at some point in the future, throw it away? Can't you see how this verse ONLY speaks to God's side of the relationship, not ours? This verse says faith is a gift from God and can't be earned. It isn't given on the basis of any WORKS OF THE LAW done, but by the Grace of God. It doesn't speak to the FACT that we can reject Him.

Yes there were unsaved people and jews in the audience. But John 5:24 is for believers only, anyone who has believed in Jesus Christ.
An unbeliever has not "passed from death to life". An unbeliever does not "have eternal life." An unbeliever WILL come into judgment. So this verse APPLYS to someone who has believed in the Fathers plan. And that plan is for Men to believe ON the Son.

This is NOT a salvation verse. It is not the mechanics of salvation in the context. It is the Principal of salvation here. By believing ON the Son, you believe the plan of the Father, and thereby have salvation forever and ever.

Eph 2:8 Why the Greek? It is the only inspired word. The reason it was inspired in the Greek is because the Greek is a VERY precise and commanding Language. If one knows it and studies it some, a lot of our presuppositions would melt away.

The reason your exegesis does not work is because it is Gods Gift to us, not ours to throw away(we might think we did).God holds up HIS side of the bargain. And the Spirit, Greek and a humble attitude will prove it to us.

The periphrastic perfect and the intensive perfect of saved In Eph 2:8 says, it is 100% finished in the past,100% percent Finished today and 100% finished in the Future.

That is what is being overlooked and denied. We can't change it. We can't even ask," can I throw it away?" Its 100% done.

To deny what the Spirit and the Greek says in this ONE little phrase and word is a detriment to any Christians walk.

Of course Paul wrote these words to saved Christians.

His admonition to continue in the faith and not turn away from the hope of the Gospel is for all who call upon the name of the Lord.

His admonition to all who call upon the name of the Lord to depart from iniquity is just as crucial - as it is written -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

and again -

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. Revelation 22:14-15


These are written to Christians who have been saved, for we know that unbelievers are already condemned.




JLB

 

[George Muller]

Not sure of your translation? Are you a Christian? Do you believe the scriptures to be Gods Word, and Christ to be the crucified and begotten Son of God?

The www.2001translation.com is the one I used.
What bearing does my trust in the words written is scripture have to do with me pointing out what the scriptures say?

As far as the topic goes, specifically the letter to the Ephesians, here's a quick synopsis and it really doesn't seem to support OSAS.

Paul, an Apostle of the Anointed Jesus (by the Will of God), to the Holy Ones in Ephesus those faithful ones in the Anointed Jesus….you have died to the ways of sin and error that you once walked in…..I urge you to be worthy of the calling that you've received….You must not continue in the path that the nations are following!.......... Don’t sadden the Holy Breath of God that you were sealed with on the Day that your ransom was paid! 31 Get rid of all…..that’s bad……….Become imitators of God as His loved children, and keep on walking in love……..Because, you already recognize and know that all those who are immoral, unclean, and greedy (which really amounts to being idol worshipers) won’t have an inheritance in the Kingdom of the Anointed One and of God. Don’t allow anyone to seduce you into using empty words. For, it’s because of things like this that the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. So, don’t join in with them, because; although you were once dark, you are now light in the Lord. So, keep walking as children of light!...... For, our fight isn’t against flesh and blood, but against the governments, the authorities, the mighty ones of this worldly darkness, and against the unseen power of wickedness in the heavens. Because of this, take up the complete armor of God [so you can] fight in that wicked day and still be found standing in the end.

Well it has everything to do with the motive of a person who would take the time to come onto a "Christian" forum and seek to influence the faith of others. Why would a "nonbeliever" even bother to come into the Lords People unless they had less than pure motives Some could even believe that they might have very false motives, even bringing in false translations of the scriptures to confuse those who are unaware of satans devices. So I am interested and believe that we "believers" have a certain right to have our own forums and know to a certain degree, the motives of those who attempt to influence our faith with the use of the scriptures. :yes

If you are a sincere "nonbeliever" searching for the truth? Why are you coming as one trying to teach and influence others? This makes no biblical sense.

 

[ezra]

so whats your point ????????????????????

 

[George Muller]

so whats your point ????????????????????

To whom are you speaking? I made my point.

 

[dadof10]

Sorry, no. This verse is part of a greater discourse which starts at verse 17 after He healed a man on the Sabbath.

"The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. 16 And this was why the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did this on the sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working still, and I am working." 18 This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God."

He then continues with the discourse:

"Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you,..."

This discourse was obviously given to "the Jews", not to saved believers. If this isn't enough to convince you, in verses 37-40, in the same discourse, He chastises "them".

"37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen;
38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.
39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

Obviously not spoken to believers. If so, OSAS is false because these "believers" refuse to come to Him.

Now the Father is telling believers about eternal security and the Son Is the one teaching. If we believe the Father and what is being said we will KNOW and believe in eternal security. If we do not believe in what the Father is telling us, we will not know eternal security and believe that we live in limbo and have no security from the Father.

Again, this is not even close to what the verse says, nor is it what you claimed in your last post. You said: "The judgment in this verse is an eternal judgement, so one must conclude that once the subject or object believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will never lose his salvation." This is your main point, that eternal security rests on faith in Christ alone. This verse does not even come close to making your point.

But I still see that no one from the conditional security camp will deal with the facts stated about Eph 2:8

If you will break down Eph 2:8 and prove the OP wrong about the Greek language then you will have a platform for my ears. So far nothing.

I did an exegesis on this passage, you ignored it. Why do I have to break down the Greek to know this verse doesn't back up your contention either? Here is what I wrote previously;

Take Eph. 2:8: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God."

Can I reject the gift? Yes or no. Can I accept the gift, then, at some point in the future, throw it away? Can't you see how this verse ONLY speaks to God's side of the relationship, not ours? This verse says faith is a gift from God and can't be earned. It isn't given on the basis of any WORKS OF THE LAW done, but by the Grace of God. It doesn't speak to the FACT that we can reject Him.

Yes there were unsaved people and jews in the audience. But John 5:24 is for believers only, anyone who has believed in Jesus Christ.
An unbeliever has not "passed from death to life". An unbeliever does not "have eternal life." An unbeliever WILL come into judgment. So this verse APPLYS to someone who has believed in the Fathers plan. And that plan is for Men to believe ON the Son.

OK, I think I misunderstood you. I took "is for believers only" to mean "was said to believers only".

This is NOT a salvation verse. It is not the mechanics of salvation in the context. It is the Principal of salvation here. By believing ON the Son, you believe the plan of the Father, and thereby have salvation forever and ever.

I don't even know what this means or what hair you're trying to split. You brought up John 5:24 as a proof text for OSAS (once saved always saved) and gave an exegesis of it with this conclusion:

"The judgment in this verse is an eternal judgement, so one must conclude that once the subject or object believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will never lose his salvation."

Before we move on to Eph. 2:8, could you please show me where John 5:24 teaches your conclusion above? Where does it teach that faith "in the Lord Jesus Christ" leads to eternal security or OSAS? I read this verse and see no reference to faith in Christ. It seems logical, then, that this verse doesn't speak to the subject of faith in Christ and eternal security. We must look elsewhere for for proof texts, if this is what you want to do.

 

[JLB]

We must look elsewhere for for proof texts, if this is what you want to do.

He needs to, because there is certainly NO PROOF in the text of John 5:24.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Paul wrote these words to Christians who had been saved, but were in danger of being rejected by Christ at the Judgment seat.

His admonition to continue in the faith and not turn away from the hope of the Gospel is for all who call upon the name of the Lord.

His admonition to all who call upon the name of the Lord to depart from iniquity is just as crucial - as it is written -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

and again -

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. Revelation 22:14-15


These are written to Christians who have been saved, for we know that unbelievers are already condemned.

The foundational element in the Gospel is to repent.

To repent means to turn away, change direction.

To turn from Satan and his kingdom to God and His kingdom.

That is the Gospel. Unless the Gospel is obeyed, and obeyed to the end, then ones salvation is not assured.

That is why we see phrases like -

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8

and again -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


JLB

 

[josefnospam]

John 10:28 I give them unto eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. What part of ETERNAL life do you not understand. And to put this in correct context Verse 11 says I AM the good shepard: the good shepard gives his life for the sheep.

Verse 14 repeats this I AM the good shepard and know my sheep AND am know of mine. Do you not believe the scriptures? Now I was suprised to hear about this OSAS. Someone told me today what it stands for. I never even considered it before and will study the scriptures for additional verses. But these pretty much say it all Eternal life means forever. And these ARE the words of Christ. OR don't you believe even this.................

 

[josefnospam]

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. To put this in correct context verse 11 says I AM the good shepard: the good shepard giveth his life for the sheep. Verse 14 repeats this I am the good shepard and know my sheep AND am know by them.. These are the words of Christ........So what part of eternal life do you not understand? Eternal means forever, and Christ says "they shall never perish" Or don't you believe the scriptures. I was told today what OSAS means. I am suprised that this is a topic and I will study the scriptures for others verses . To say this OSAS is not biblically supported in light of this verse does ignore, Christ the LORD AND what he himself stated very plainly.

 

[josefnospam]

Sorry for the near duplicate post.............I did not think the 1st one posted, so rewote it.

 

[josefnospam]

John 10:28 also verses 11, 14,, 26 and 27 for context............Christs' words.........NOT MINE Words like "elernal life, they shall never persih" The sheep who follow the shepard who died for his sheep. This IS biblically support from CHRIST the Lord. I'll study a bit more because this OSAS was explained to me what it stood for today. I was suprised to even find a topic like this. Never even occured to me and this is new to me at least. What kind of God do people worship that can't or won't do what HE says? Or don't you believe the scriptures and his very OWN WORDS

 

[George Muller]

Paul wrote these words to Christians who had been saved, but were in danger of being rejected by Christ at the Judgment seat.

His admonition to continue in the faith and not turn away from the hope of the Gospel is for all who call upon the name of the Lord.

His admonition to all who call upon the name of the Lord to depart from iniquity is just as crucial - as it is written -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

You seem ignore the overriding warning of Galatains; which is turning from grace back to the law. For it is the law that is the strength of sin, and produces sinful desires in those who look to the Ten Commandments to be justified. It is grace and grace alone that overcomes sin. The law is not of faith, those who look to the law are IN THE FLESH, this is to whom the warning is addressed.
This list is not for those in grace, but for those who look to the law.

 

[JLB]

Paul wrote these words to Christians who had been saved, but were in danger of being rejected by Christ at the Judgment seat.

His admonition to continue in the faith and not turn away from the hope of the Gospel is for all who call upon the name of the Lord.

His admonition to all who call upon the name of the Lord to depart from iniquity is just as crucial - as it is written -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

You seem ignore the overriding warning of Galatains; which is turning from grace back to the law. For it is the law that is the strength of sin, and produces sinful desires in those who look to the Ten Commandments to be justified. It is grace and grace alone that overcomes sin. The law is not of faith, those who look to the law are IN THE FLESH, this is to whom the warning is addressed.
This list is not for those in grace, but for those who look to the law.

This is written to born again, Spirit filled Christians that Paul raised up and taught.

It doesn't matter what reason people choose to turn away from the Lord.

Whether it is to look to the law of Moses, or they simply choose to practice the sins that Galatians 5:19 list's, or they choose to take the mark of the beast.

It doesn't matter, the scriptures are clear.

One thing is for sure, had these people been taught the whole counsel of God, and not taught once saved always saved, they might have chosen differently.

Paul told the Galatians clearly; If you choose to practice these things, you will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Faith to be saved comes by hearing the word of God for salvation.

Repent and believe the Gospel!

Turning back, after you have repented is what the warning is about here.

38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." 39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.Hebrews 10:38-39

I will say this. I believe in God's grace and trust Him and His love for me, to keep and preserve me, NOT MY OWN ABILITY, NOT MY FAITH.

My faith is in God and His mercy and loving kindness, His grace and His Love, to keep us until the end.

My faith is not in my faith, but in God.

However, I both fear God and Love God.

I have a desire to please Him and to do what is right in His eyes.

I have a healthy respect for God's word.


JLB

 

[gr8grace]

Sorry, no. This verse is part of a greater discourse which starts at verse 17 after He healed a man on the Sabbath.

"The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. 16 And this was why the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did this on the sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working still, and I am working." 18 This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God."

He then continues with the discourse:

"Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you,..."

This discourse was obviously given to "the Jews", not to saved believers. If this isn't enough to convince you, in verses 37-40, in the same discourse, He chastises "them".

"37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen;
38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.
39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

Obviously not spoken to believers. If so, OSAS is false because these "believers" refuse to come to Him.

Again, this is not even close to what the verse says, nor is it what you claimed in your last post. You said: "The judgment in this verse is an eternal judgement, so one must conclude that once the subject or object believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will never lose his salvation." This is your main point, that eternal security rests on faith in Christ alone. This verse does not even come close to making your point.
I did an exegesis on this passage, you ignored it. Why do I have to break down the Greek to know this verse doesn't back up your contention either? Here is what I wrote previously;

Take Eph. 2:8: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God."

Can I reject the gift? Yes or no. Can I accept the gift, then, at some point in the future, throw it away? Can't you see how this verse ONLY speaks to God's side of the relationship, not ours? This verse says faith is a gift from God and can't be earned. It isn't given on the basis of any WORKS OF THE LAW done, but by the Grace of God. It doesn't speak to the FACT that we can reject Him.

Yes there were unsaved people and jews in the audience. But John 5:24 is for believers only, anyone who has believed in Jesus Christ.
An unbeliever has not "passed from death to life". An unbeliever does not "have eternal life." An unbeliever WILL come into judgment. So this verse APPLYS to someone who has believed in the Fathers plan. And that plan is for Men to believe ON the Son.

OK, I think I misunderstood you. I took "is for believers only" to mean "was said to believers only".

This is NOT a salvation verse. It is not the mechanics of salvation in the context. It is the Principal of salvation here. By believing ON the Son, you believe the plan of the Father, and thereby have salvation forever and ever.

I don't even know what this means or what hair you're trying to split. You brought up John 5:24 as a proof text for OSAS (once saved always saved) and gave an exegesis of it with this conclusion:

"The judgment in this verse is an eternal judgement, so one must conclude that once the subject or object believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will never lose his salvation."

Before we move on to Eph. 2:8, could you please show me where John 5:24 teaches your conclusion above? Where does it teach that faith "in the Lord Jesus Christ" leads to eternal security or OSAS? I read this verse and see no reference to faith in Christ. It seems logical, then, that this verse doesn't speak to the subject of faith in Christ and eternal security. We must look elsewhere for for proof texts, if this is what you want to do.

Post #67
lets do some more on John 5:24. we have been shown the clear and intended meaning of "from death to life" in another post(#57). Lets do "does not come into judgment"

In John 5:24 it says, …does not come into judgment, it does not say "might not", or "should not" or "may not", but emphatically, does not. In the Greek, the verse is much clearer; kai eis krisin ouk erchetai[and into judgment not comes]. The verb erchetai means to come or to arrive, and therefore..." does not come into judgment."

oukis is an interesting word. When you Attach ouk with any verb in the Greek, it is used to vehemently deny that what is being declared in the verb will ever happen to the subject of the sentence. The verb here is krisis, which is judgment. The subject or object of the verb is anyone who believes. Therefore, anyone who believes will not and never come into judgment. The judgment in this verse is an eternal judgement, so one must conclude that once the subject or object believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will never lose his salvation.

This verse applies to absolutely nobody except for believers.

If you don't think that this verses subject or object is a believer then I will stop.

 

[gr8grace]

John 10:28 also verses 11, 14,, 26 and 27 for context............Christs' words.........NOT MINE Words like "elernal life, they shall never persih" The sheep who follow the shepard who died for his sheep. This IS biblically support from CHRIST the Lord. I'll study a bit more because this OSAS was explained to me what it stood for today. I was suprised to even find a topic like this. Never even occured to me and this is new to me at least. What kind of God do people worship that can't or won't do what HE says? Or don't you believe the scriptures and his very OWN WORDS

The word “never” in John 10:28-30 is a double negative in the Greek and means never, no not ever. Now, that is eternal security. A double negative in the Greek is different than in the English and provides much more emphasis on the negative when used. This passage goes on to say that no one is able to take them out of the hands of either Jesus Christ or the Father. This means that both the Father and the Son hold our hands. This is a sure-fire and eternal grip as found in Psalms 37:23-24.

The steps of a man are established by the Lord; And He delights in his way. When he falls, he shall not be hurled headlong; Because the Lord is the One who holds his hand. (Psalms 37:23-24)

 

[dadof10]

We must look elsewhere for for proof texts, if this is what you want to do.

He needs to, because there is certainly NO PROOF in the text of John 5:24.


JLB

Or anywhere else, for that matter.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[dadof10]

OK, I think I misunderstood you. I took "is for believers only" to mean "was said to believers only".

This is NOT a salvation verse. It is not the mechanics of salvation in the context. It is the Principal of salvation here. By believing ON the Son, you believe the plan of the Father, and thereby have salvation forever and ever.

I don't even know what this means or what hair you're trying to split. You brought up John 5:24 as a proof text for OSAS (once saved always saved) and gave an exegesis of it with this conclusion:

"The judgment in this verse is an eternal judgement, so one must conclude that once the subject or object believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will never lose his salvation."

Before we move on to Eph. 2:8, could you please show me where John 5:24 teaches your conclusion above? Where does it teach that faith "in the Lord Jesus Christ" leads to eternal security or OSAS? I read this verse and see no reference to faith in Christ. It seems logical, then, that this verse doesn't speak to the subject of faith in Christ and eternal security. We must look elsewhere for for proof texts, if this is what you want to do.

Post #67
lets do some more on John 5:24. we have been shown the clear and intended meaning of "from death to life" in another post(#57). Lets do "does not come into judgment"

In John 5:24 it says, …does not come into judgment, it does not say "might not", or "should not" or "may not", but emphatically, does not. In the Greek, the verse is much clearer; kai eis krisin ouk erchetai[and into judgment not comes]. The verb erchetai means to come or to arrive, and therefore..." does not come into judgment."

oukis is an interesting word. When you Attach ouk with any verb in the Greek, it is used to vehemently deny that what is being declared in the verb will ever happen to the subject of the sentence. The verb here is krisis, which is judgment. The subject or object of the verb is anyone who believes. Therefore, anyone who believes will not and never come into judgment. The judgment in this verse is an eternal judgement, so one must conclude that once the subject or object believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will never lose his salvation.

This verse applies to absolutely nobody except for believers.

If you don't think that this verses subject or object is a believer then I will stop.

A BELIEVER IN WHOM?

What are the two criteria for getting "from death to life"? What does the person have to believe in? What are the actual words of the verse? I don't see "believe in me" there, do you? I see "hear my word" and "believe in Him Who sent Me".

My point, again, is if you are trying to proof text eternal security is by faith in Christ, you have to look elsewhere as this verse doesn't speak to the subject.

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[Deborah13]

@dadof10
A BELIEVER IN WHOM?

What are the two criteria for getting "from death to life"? What does the person have to believe in? What are the actual words of the verse? I don't see "believe in me" there, do you? I see "hear my word" and "believe in Him Who sent Me".

My point, again, is if you are trying to proof text eternal security is by faith in Christ, you have to look elsewhere as this verse doesn't speak to the subject.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

So in order to even know what this verse talking about one must backup and read the preceding verses to "hear my word". What does it say? What words are we suppose to believe. Because if we believe in "Him Who sent Me" we will also believe what "Him" said about the "Son".
And imo, we need to not be hearing as with the ears on the side of head but the ears of our heart.

 

[Deborah13]

I never one time asked God to heal Him. The first person I spoke to was the devil and I told the devil to get his hands off my son,

I last time I didn't feel well, this is how my 8 yr old grandson prayed for me "satan, you rotten fish, you leave my Grandma alone! Thank you Jesus, for healing my Grandma." Within 5 or 10 mins all the pain in my stomach, nausea, etc. was completely gone and didn't come back.
"the pray of faith SHALL heal the sick" (para)

I believe this but frankly, sometimes people just don't get healed. All I can say is that I don't know why. I would never accuse them or the people praying. Not that you are, that's not what I'm saying. Just adding a fact.