OSAS is biblical truth.

[George Muller]

This is written to born again, Spirit filled Christians that Paul raised up and taught.

It doesn't matter what reason people choose to turn away from the Lord.

Whether it is to look to the law of Moses, or they simply choose to practice the sins that Galatians 5:19 list's, or they choose to take the mark of the beast.

It doesn't matter,

Sorry that is unbiblical, the strength of sin is the law, the reason these sins were addressed was because this church had turned from grace (which overcomes sin) to law that produces sinful desires. To ignore that is to reject the truth and intention of this epistle.

So, if I reject Christ by going back to the law after I'm saved, I'm condemned. But if I reject Christ after being saved for any other reason than turning to a reliance on law I continue to be saved. Strange doctrine indeed, M. Strange doctrine indeed.

Well when one turns from the righteousness of God, back to the righteousness of mans flesh, they have in effect rejected Christ and His Cross. This is the "willing sin" and rejection of the Spirit of Grace. Just as the Lord said to the hypocrites of His time,"I do not condemn you, there is one who condemns you, Moses in whom you trust" So the condemnation is the law, and those who turn to the law, choose to be condemned. Thus Paul says "you who desire to be under law, do you not here the law?"

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So those who turn (FROM GRACE) to the law, are condemned by the law

 

[George Muller]

This is written to born again, Spirit filled Christians that Paul raised up and taught.

It doesn't matter what reason people choose to turn away from the Lord.

Whether it is to look to the law of Moses, or they simply choose to practice the sins that Galatians 5:19 list's, or they choose to take the mark of the beast.

It doesn't matter,

Sorry that is unbiblical, the strength of sin is the law, the reason these sins were addressed was because this church had turned from grace (which overcomes sin) to law that produces sinful desires. To ignore that is to reject the truth and intention of this epistle.

Maybe this is why you believe and teach false doctrine, because you don't rightly divide the word.

The works of the flesh are laid out by Paul, as he warns his church not to walk in them.

Paul gives them the balance of the liberty of grace, and warns them not to use this liberty to walk in the flesh.

3 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Paul then lays out specifically the works of the flesh, and gives them the consequences of practicing those sins.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Paul gives them clear and specific direction concerning walking in the lust of the flesh as he does in Romans -

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

On the contrary, a person can indeed expect condemnation if they choose to live a lifestyle of fulfilling the lust's of the flesh.


JLB

That Paul promotes love as the fulfillment of the law, does not change the fact that it is the law that is the strength of sin. So not sure what point you think you are making? Those under law, are those who are in the flesh, not those who are under grace.
Do you even understand what it means to "walk in the spirit" and not in the flesh? Please explain if you can, seeing you seem to desire to teach others?

 

[George Muller]

Well, it's like someone who keeps every single Sunday as some type of Sabbath day. Happy is he in the things they allow. I don't see how that might make you unsaved. What if someone won't eat pork? I believe man has a choice, and only leaving Jesus and the great power of the Holy Spirit by someones own choice after knowing what they are leaving to worship Allah or some other god. Only then would God say fine, leave..............

We are not taking about someone who is weak in their faith, or someone who is new in the things of the Lord.

We are not talking about someone who keeps external rituals or rules.

We are talking about someone who lives a lifestyle of fulfilling the lust's of the flesh, as Paul laid in Galatians 5, with the warning ; just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

This is just one example of someone who may have called on the Lord at one time, and been saved, but failed to continue in the faith and chose to live like those who are unsaved and died in that condition.

I believe the Lord would continue to try and reach that person and never give up on that person, but if that person refused to repent and just lived in sin and died that way, the scripture says they will not inherit the kingdom of God.That is why Paul made this profound statement after living a life given over to the Lord and working with all kinds of people in many different countries and seeing all the things he saw, both in heaven and on earth -

Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 2 Timothy 2:19



JLB

These warnings are made to those who are turning from grace to law, and I would ask you JLB, do you ever practice any of these works of the flesh? If so, then what point do "you" have to make to others? Ever have envy of strife or wrath? ever get jealous or covet what another has? What Paul is doing is identify the flesh, For it (the flesh) cannot inherit the Kingdom. The law is not of faith, to walk in the spirit one must walk in faith.


Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
,

 

[George Muller]

No non-believers have no place to make biblical points, for the Word of God is Spirit and truth, without the Spirit of Truth no man can take up the truth of scripture. Your translation is false altogether and is not to be accepted by any believer.

What church did you found? I ask because you speak as one that has been empowered to dictate terms, make rules, and brush off anything that is not personally endorsed by you. If people listened to you, those without faith would be be given Bibles but instead would be subjected as their means of coming to God to having to hear and believe your version of the gospel. If they accept it, then they can use the scriptures, but if not, then no matter what they read for themselves in the revealed word, that cannot be used against what you put forth.

How arrogant.

Gods Word and Spirit are my authority. I proclaim only that which Gods Word proclaims and what I am, I am by the grace of God.

 

[JLB]

This is written to born again, Spirit filled Christians that Paul raised up and taught.

It doesn't matter what reason people choose to turn away from the Lord.

Whether it is to look to the law of Moses, or they simply choose to practice the sins that Galatians 5:19 list's, or they choose to take the mark of the beast.

It doesn't matter,

Sorry that is unbiblical, the strength of sin is the law, the reason these sins were addressed was because this church had turned from grace (which overcomes sin) to law that produces sinful desires. To ignore that is to reject the truth and intention of this epistle.

So, if I reject Christ by going back to the law after I'm saved, I'm condemned. But if I reject Christ after being saved for any other reason than turning to a reliance on law I continue to be saved. Strange doctrine indeed, M. Strange doctrine indeed.

Well when one turns from the righteousness of God, back to the righteousness of mans flesh, they have in effect rejected Christ and His Cross. This is the "willing sin" and rejection of the Spirit of Grace. Just as the Lord said to the hypocrites of His time,"I do not condemn you, there is one who condemns you, Moses in whom you trust" So the condemnation is the law, and those who turn to the law, choose to be condemned. Thus Paul says "you who desire to be under law, do you not here the law?"

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So those who turn (FROM GRACE) to the law, are condemned by the law

So OSAS then is not in effect.

If a person turns from Christ for whatever reason, it means they have the will and desire to do so, and therefore they no longer believe in His work on the cross.

Their salvation is no longer intact.

JLB

 

[JLB]

These warnings are made to those who are turning from grace to law, and I would ask you JLB, do you ever practice any of these works of the flesh? If so, then what point do "you" have to make to others? Ever have envy of strife or wrath? ever get jealous or covet what another has? What Paul is doing is identify the flesh, For it (the flesh) cannot inherit the Kingdom. The law is not of faith, to walk in the spirit one must walk in faith.

These warning are made to those who are spirit filled Christians who were saved and are warned of using the GRACE OF GOD as a license to live according to the flesh.

For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh,

Sorry George, just because you choose to reject these words of Paul and deny them to be true, isn't going to change their meaning.


OSAS is a false doctrine!


JLB

 

[George Muller]

These warnings are made to those who are turning from grace to law, and I would ask you JLB, do you ever practice any of these works of the flesh? If so, then what point do "you" have to make to others? Ever have envy of strife or wrath? ever get jealous or covet what another has? What Paul is doing is identify the flesh, For it (the flesh) cannot inherit the Kingdom. The law is not of faith, to walk in the spirit one must walk in faith.

These warning are made to those who are spirit filled Christians who were saved and are warned of using the GRACE OF GOD as a license to live according to the flesh.

For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh,

Sorry George, just because you choose to reject these words of Paul and deny them to be true, isn't going to change their meaning.


OSAS is a false doctrine!


JLB

Well your "doubt" of salvation is false doctrine, salvation is found in the confidence of the promises of God, not in the doubt of His promises. And only "in grace" is a believer walking in the "Spirit of Grace", it is those under the law that are in the flesh and cannot inherit the kingdom. That is why Paul "manifest" the works of the flesh, so these people could see the truth of their own flesh.
"

 

[George Muller]

So, if I reject Christ by going back to the law after I'm saved, I'm condemned. But if I reject Christ after being saved for any other reason than turning to a reliance on law I continue to be saved. Strange doctrine indeed, M. Strange doctrine indeed.

Well when one turns from the righteousness of God, back to the righteousness of mans flesh, they have in effect rejected Christ and His Cross. This is the "willing sin" and rejection of the Spirit of Grace. Just as the Lord said to the hypocrites of His time,"I do not condemn you, there is one who condemns you, Moses in whom you trust" So the condemnation is the law, and those who turn to the law, choose to be condemned. Thus Paul says "you who desire to be under law, do you not here the law?"

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So those who turn (FROM GRACE) to the law, are condemned by the law

So OSAS then is not in effect.

If a person turns from Christ for whatever reason, it means they have the will and desire to do so, and therefore they no longer believe in His work on the cross.

Their salvation is no longer intact.

JLB

OSAS is true for those who trust in Grace, but not true for those who trust in the flesh and works of the flesh, by the law, as Paul said I could not speak to you as spiritual but as to carnal. The truth of OSAS is for those who "believe" not for those who "doubt".
The law is not of faith.

 

[JLB]

The truth of OSAS is for those who "believe" not for those who "doubt".

Now you are getting it Brother.

as it is written -

23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard ...

As we have said all along.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

The truth of OSAS is for those who "believe" not for those who "doubt".

Now you are getting it Brother.

as it is written -

23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard ...

As we have said all along.


JLB

No, I have it, because God gave it to me, that is faith. Doubt and demanding others have doubt is not faith. Doubt is not hope, confidence is hope. It is those who come against "eternal security" that are not "steadfast in the hope of the gospel" it is those who believe in "eternal salvation that are in fact "not moved away" It is many such as your self that have been moved and are not "steadfast" in true biblical hope.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is written to born again, Spirit filled Christians that Paul raised up and taught.

It doesn't matter what reason people choose to turn away from the Lord.

Whether it is to look to the law of Moses, or they simply choose to practice the sins that Galatians 5:19 list's, or they choose to take the mark of the beast.

It doesn't matter,

Sorry that is unbiblical, the strength of sin is the law, the reason these sins were addressed was because this church had turned from grace (which overcomes sin) to law that produces sinful desires. To ignore that is to reject the truth and intention of this epistle.

So, if I reject Christ by going back to the law after I'm saved, I'm condemned. But if I reject Christ after being saved for any other reason than turning to a reliance on law I continue to be saved. Strange doctrine indeed, M. Strange doctrine indeed.

Well when one turns from the righteousness of God, back to the righteousness of mans flesh, they have in effect rejected Christ and His Cross. This is the "willing sin" and rejection of the Spirit of Grace. Just as the Lord said to the hypocrites of His time,"I do not condemn you, there is one who condemns you, Moses in whom you trust" So the condemnation is the law, and those who turn to the law, choose to be condemned. Thus Paul says "you who desire to be under law, do you not here the law?"

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So those who turn (FROM GRACE) to the law, are condemned by the law

So, then, you saying OSAS is false.

If a person turns back to the law for justification away from Christ they forfeit the grace of salvation. Sounds like non-OSAS to me.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The truth of OSAS is for those who "believe" not for those who "doubt".

No argument here.

As JLB says, we've been saying this all along.

You have to CONTINUE to believe to have the unshakable surety of God's salvation in Christ. Believing is the power that guards the sure promise of God.

 

[George Muller]

So, if I reject Christ by going back to the law after I'm saved, I'm condemned. But if I reject Christ after being saved for any other reason than turning to a reliance on law I continue to be saved. Strange doctrine indeed, M. Strange doctrine indeed.

Well when one turns from the righteousness of God, back to the righteousness of mans flesh, they have in effect rejected Christ and His Cross. This is the "willing sin" and rejection of the Spirit of Grace. Just as the Lord said to the hypocrites of His time,"I do not condemn you, there is one who condemns you, Moses in whom you trust" So the condemnation is the law, and those who turn to the law, choose to be condemned. Thus Paul says "you who desire to be under law, do you not here the law?"

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So those who turn (FROM GRACE) to the law, are condemned by the law

So, then, you saying OSAS is false.

If a person turns back to the law for justification away from Christ they forfeit the grace of salvation. Sounds like non-OSAS to me.

Not false, but its true in grace. And Im not sure about how God will judge those who turn like a dog to its vomit and a sow back to its wallow from the "way of righteousness" but I would not want to be found having turned from The Holy Commandment, but as Paul I seek to be found "in HIM" not having my own righteousness, which is by the law, but the righteousness of God that is through faith in Christ. And as I wrote before it is the law that condemns those who seek to be justified by the law.

 

[George Muller]

So, if I reject Christ by going back to the law after I'm saved, I'm condemned. But if I reject Christ after being saved for any other reason than turning to a reliance on law I continue to be saved. Strange doctrine indeed, M. Strange doctrine indeed.

Well when one turns from the righteousness of God, back to the righteousness of mans flesh, they have in effect rejected Christ and His Cross. This is the "willing sin" and rejection of the Spirit of Grace. Just as the Lord said to the hypocrites of His time,"I do not condemn you, there is one who condemns you, Moses in whom you trust" So the condemnation is the law, and those who turn to the law, choose to be condemned. Thus Paul says "you who desire to be under law, do you not here the law?"

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So those who turn (FROM GRACE) to the law, are condemned by the law

So OSAS then is not in effect.

If a person turns from Christ for whatever reason, it means they have the will and desire to do so, and therefore they no longer believe in His work on the cross.

Their salvation is no longer intact.

JLB

OSAS is true for those who trust in Grace, but not true for those who trust in the flesh and works of the flesh, by the law, as Paul said I could not speak to you as spiritual but as to carnal. The truth of OSAS is for those who "believe" not for those who "doubt".
The law is not of faith.

Maybe this was missed? But I have made the truth known and very clear to those who desire to hear the truth? Many have "itching ears" that seek to hear the flesh justified, but the truth will never do that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Doubt and demanding others have doubt is not faith. Doubt is not hope, confidence is hope. It is those who come against "eternal security" that are not "steadfast in the hope of the gospel" it is those who believe in "eternal salvation that are in fact "not moved away" It is many such as your self that have been moved and are not "steadfast" in true biblical hope.

God's promise is not in doubt in non-OSAS. The point being made is you have to believe, and keep believing, and not turn away from trust in Christ (just as you say) to have the doubtless surety of God's salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So OSAS then is not in effect.

If a person turns from Christ for whatever reason, it means they have the will and desire to do so, and therefore they no longer believe in His work on the cross.

Their salvation is no longer intact.

JLB

OSAS is true for those who trust in Grace, but not true for those who trust in the flesh and works of the flesh, by the law, as Paul said I could not speak to you as spiritual but as to carnal. The truth of OSAS is for those who "believe" not for those who "doubt".
The law is not of faith.

Maybe this was missed? But I have made the truth known and very clear to those who desire to hear the truth? Many have "itching ears" that seek to hear the flesh justified, but the truth will never do that.

Non-OSAS is not about the works of the flesh replacing faith in Christ. But, as I've said repeatedly, this is what is automatically heard by those who believe in the hyper-grace of OSAS.

It's about the 'work' of believing, which Paul CONTRASTS with the fleshly effort of the law, and how that believing must continue to the end to have the sure promise of God's salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So, if I reject Christ by going back to the law after I'm saved, I'm condemned. But if I reject Christ after being saved for any other reason than turning to a reliance on law I continue to be saved. Strange doctrine indeed, M. Strange doctrine indeed.

Well when one turns from the righteousness of God, back to the righteousness of mans flesh, they have in effect rejected Christ and His Cross. This is the "willing sin" and rejection of the Spirit of Grace. Just as the Lord said to the hypocrites of His time,"I do not condemn you, there is one who condemns you, Moses in whom you trust" So the condemnation is the law, and those who turn to the law, choose to be condemned. Thus Paul says "you who desire to be under law, do you not here the law?"

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So those who turn (FROM GRACE) to the law, are condemned by the law

So, then, you saying OSAS is false.

If a person turns back to the law for justification away from Christ they forfeit the grace of salvation. Sounds like non-OSAS to me.

Not false, but its true in grace. And Im not sure about how God will judge those who turn like a dog to its vomit and a sow back to its wallow from the "way of righteousness" but I would not want to be found having turned from The Holy Commandment, but as Paul I seek to be found "in HIM" not having my own righteousness, which is by the law, but the righteousness of God that is through faith in Christ. And as I wrote before it is the law that condemns those who seek to be justified by the law.

IOW you are non-OSAS.

 

[Brother Mike]

More jumbo jumbo!

I have not mentioned the Kingdom of Heaven in this post. Those are you words to distract the subject matter of my post.

Kinda like a used car salesman would do to customer asking for the Carfax.

I want you to know, my mumbo Jumbo pays attention to actual words use and how they would have heard it. I am better than those salesmen, give me some credit. You need to understand that Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are Spelled different!!!!!

Cat is spelled different than Dog. I suppose since they both have fur, ears and tail you don't call them cat or dogs, but animals.

However, I did give you my point that being in a place to not inherit the Kingdom of God after being saved is not a good place. Paul turned one over to Satan just to destroy him in hopes to save his spirit. That tells me that those in that category are in danger of not being saved anymore.

Now I will be happy to sell you a vehicle report................

Even so, how we draw our conclusions............ OSAS is Busted!!!!!

Mike.

 

[reba]

My salvation is in His Cross He did it I cant .... Yet my salvation is on going. How far away from God does one need to turn to be 'away' ? I kinda grew up being Christian in my teens I ran away from all I was taught looking back i can clearly see His hand His staff reaching for this lamb.... Could i have gone my own way ?

Pro_14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Pro_16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[George Muller]

So, then, you saying OSAS is false.

If a person turns back to the law for justification away from Christ they forfeit the grace of salvation. Sounds like non-OSAS to me.

Not false, but its true in grace. And Im not sure about how God will judge those who turn like a dog to its vomit and a sow back to its wallow from the "way of righteousness" but I would not want to be found having turned from The Holy Commandment, but as Paul I seek to be found "in HIM" not having my own righteousness, which is by the law, but the righteousness of God that is through faith in Christ. And as I wrote before it is the law that condemns those who seek to be justified by the law.

IOW you are non-OSAS.

Well, I don't care to be considered this or that? What is important to me, is the truth, and the truth is that in the Grace of the Lord, salvation is assured and eternal. Call it what you like, it matters not to me