I have posted scripture in this thread to disprove OSAS, but it seems people don't like to discuss those verses that appear to support NOSAS. I have posted a couple of verses in John 15 that claim that if a branch that has been grafted in (gentiles) does not bear fruit, it will be cut off and burned in fire. If this doesn't mean a person, who was once saved, can be cut off, then tell me what it means?
John 15:2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
First of all, John 15:2 is a very encouraging verse. It has nothing to do with throwing a believer into the LoF forever and ever. We should not be so quick to send a fellow Brother or Sister
IN Christ to the LoF.
John 15:2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
"He takes away"
airei~~
142~~to raise, take up, lift
The Father lifts(encourages) the unfruitful branch off of the ground(So a second root does not develop), into better light so that the branch has a better chance to produce fruit. It is a well known technique in the vineyard.....One has to force the Judgement of the LoF for a fellow brother or sister in Christ in this verse.
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John 15:6 If anyone does not abide(remain in fellowship) in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned....This is the Bema seat fire. One has to force the judgement of the LoF for a fellow brother or sister in Christ in this verse.
1 Cor 3:12-15~~12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is
to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss;,
yet so but he himself will be saved as through fire.
No one has ever addressed this for me:
If one can lose their salvation, tell me specifically all the ways one can lose it. And at what point is the line in the sand drawn for each offense?
If "not believing anymore" causes us to lose salvation. Is there a grace period for stupidity? Or do we lose it the moment we "Stop believing." What if for just one day we said," I give this up, it all can't be true." And we came to our senses the next day. Did we lose our salvation for that day only and got it back when we came to our senses? Do we have to do something else to get it back? what if we gave it up for 3 or 4 days. Do we lose it at the 3 1/2 day mark because we really crossed the line that time? What if for 2 weeks we stopped believing and then came to our senses? At what point do we lose salvation?
If habitual sin can make us lose salvation, How habitual does it need to be? Where is the dividing line? At what point does God say,"Thats enough, you lost your salvation!" Do we have a day to get it cleaned up,a week, a month, a year, 10 years? At what point do we lose salvation?
Lying~~ how habitual does it need to be? once every day? once every month? Once a year? At what specific point will salvation be lost?
I would love to see a sincere(but sincerely wrong) legalist write a book on," How to stay saved." It would be no less than 10,000 pages long and be in revision daily. It would have no end.
