What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

OSAS The Truth

reba said:
Sending me on a search :)

Good ol Mat Henry

(2.) Christ's disallowing of this excuse (Mat_8:22); Jesus said to him, Follow me; and, no doubt, power accompanied this word to him, as to others, and he did follow Christ, and cleaved to him, as Ruth to Naomi, when the scribe, in the ...

Thanks for the wake up :)
Click to expand...

Here's one that never gets mentioned.

John 6....(NKJV)
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
.
 
Gary said:
Here's one that never gets mentioned.

John 6....(NKJV)
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
.
Click to expand...

This one isn't very popular either:

1 Timothy 4:1-2
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
 
Jesse said:
This one isn't very popular either:

1 Timothy 4:1-2
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Click to expand...


Great scripture.

I use it myself because it contains the word depart from... the faith.

Depart in the Greek is Strong's Number: 868 -
  • to go away, to depart from anyone
  • to desert, withdraw from one
  • to fall away, become faithless

This is the word Jesus used to teach us the all important principle of continuing to the end, continuing the process of becoming a child of God.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

...who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Fall away just doesn't quit describe the situation as depart from.


The phrase almost leads the reader to think that one "accidentally stumbled" and "fell away.

If we examine the principle from verse 12, it carries more weight.

.. lest they should believe and be saved.


Verse 12 teaches us the principle of salvation:

Believe = Saved

Now verse 13 -

Believe for a while = saved for awhile

Holman Christian Standard, says it this way -

12 The seeds along the path are those who have heard. Then the Devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 And the seeds on the rock are those who, when they hear, welcome the word with joy. Having no root, these believe for a while and depart in a time of testing. Luke 8:12-13


1 Timothy 4:1-2 is one of the many verses that teach us that OSAS is not a valid doctrine.



Thanks JLB






 
Okay, since there seems to be only two sides, here's the tie breaker...,

1. Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit to live inside of me and He would abide with me for ever. John 4:16

2. The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3, 4

So if a I, a born again child of God can lose my salvation, then which one of the two following statements is true?

1. Jesus is a liar and the Holy Spirit leaves me when I go to the Lake of Fire

or

2. The Holy Spirit is NOT God and He goes with me into the Lake of Fire.
 
Karl said:
Okay, since there seems to be only two sides, here's the tie breaker...,

1. Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit to live inside of me and He would abide with me for ever. John 4:16

2. The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3, 4

So if a I, a born again child of God can lose my salvation, then which one of the two following statements is true?

1. Jesus is a liar and the Holy Spirit leaves me when I go to the Lake of Fire

or

2. The Holy Spirit is NOT God and He goes with me into the Lake of Fire.
Click to expand...
So a person is gaining and losing their salvation all the time?God is not an indian giver.
 
Personally I find it hard to give any credence to any verses that mention disciples departing before the resurrection of Jesus because Scripture clearly teaches the Holy Spirit had not been given, so they could not of been born again.

And a simple reading of the Laodicean church tells us there have been many since the day of Pentecost that were not born again, but just playing church, ...Jesus will never vomit His Bride from His mouth.
 
I notice in all the above discussion that the New Birth is being kept in isolation from everything else concerning salvation. Salvation begins with repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). That in itself leads to the New Birth (regeneration), but regeneration is not isolated from other vital aspects of salvation (Titus 3:4-7):

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

First of all we see the kindness, love and mercy of God. None of that would be possible without the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, which we receive by faith. When we do that we receive "the washing of regeneration" (sins and guilt removed by being washed in the blood of the Lamb), and "the renewing of the Holy Ghost" (a new creature in Christ created, the dead spirit brought to life, the the Holy Spirit given as a gift), justification by His grace (the sinner declared righteous and given the robe of Christs righteousness), being made heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ, and also the gift of eternal life.

Unless all of this can be undone (which is a work of God) there is absolutely no possibility that anyone can reverse what God has accomplished.
 
Nope, Jesus didn't give any conditions, the New Covenant is different from the Old Covenant in that the Old was conditional on the people keeping it, the New is only conditional on God keeping His word, and since it's impossible for God to lie, ...my question still stands unanswered
 
My uncle Mark is a real person He truly did curse God on his death bed and for a few years prier... In his younger days any one around him would have considered him a Christian...

So that brings us back to He was never really saved or only God really knows...
 
And for Jesse,

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1Jn 3:9

The Divinely inspired Word of God says if you are born again you cannot sin, that is the regenerated part of you, the new creation in Christ 2 Cor 56:17 that you are.

Consider this bro, ...you're arguing for the old man that is dead, Paul explained he symbolically died when you were baptized, and we are now, on this side of the cross and on this side of our baptism to reckon the old man dead, ...can you believe it and receive it?
 
reba said:
My uncle Mark is a real person He truly did curse God on his death bed and for a few years prier... In his younger days any one around him would have considered him a Christian...

So that brings us back to He was never really saved or only God really knows...
Click to expand...


Yep! Only God knows and it's not for us to judge another's salvation, ...and my dad also died cursing God.
 
reba said:
Karl Ya left out you walking away... Man has turned his back on God from the beginning
Click to expand...


Peter gave the answer for me, ...Where would I go?

I've tried everything else, there's nothing left for me, and thanks be to God, I don't want to walk away, Paul too has already said it for me,

I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Php 3:14

and like father Abraham,

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Heb 11:10

You, precious sister, understand this, you have shared you commitment in you marriage for over 50 years, how much stronger is that commitment to the One who died for us?
 
See what James has to say about salvation. In James 2 he says he could show you his faith by his works. One is not saved by their works but they are saved for their works. Also see what Paul said about his struggle with sin in Romans 7. You will never stop sinning but you should start to not want to sin. A son will always find his way back to the father if he's truly a son, however the pig that cleans himself up and goes to the Father will eventually return to the mire.
 
The name of this thread is OSAS the truth.

The OP presents this case using the verse ` Peter 1:23;

"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God".

Imperishable means lasting forever.

Those of you who are non- OSAS should be addressing the OP, proving it is wrong, rather than changing the thread by asking different verses to be addressed instead.

Work with the OP, otherwise, you are off-topic.
 
Jesse said:
In the verse you offered in 1 Peter, the imperishable is not salvation, but the seed - the seed is imperishable. It will remain in you IF you do not walk away.
Click to expand...
'Walking away' refers to the faith, not salvation. There are no verses that indicate that one can leave their salvation. Jesus noted in the parable of the soils that the 2nd soil "believed for a while and then fell away". That means they quit believing. And He gave the reasons for their faith failing. But that does not suggest that they fell away from their salvation.

Jesus also said that no one (meaning any person) can snatch anyone from the Father's hand. That would include the one who is in the Father's hand. And Jesus made the point that no one is more powerful than the Father.

So, those who deny OSAS are basically saying that they themselves have the power to snatch themselves from the Father's hand, which is not possible.

The warning of the great apostasy should be enough to convince anyone that a person can fall away.
Click to expand...
Yes, Jesus made that clear. But the issue is to fall away from the faith, not from one's salvation.

A person can also be born again yet still walk away.
Click to expand...
Yes, but not from being born again.

Further, Paul wrote that the Holy Spirit was given by God as a seal or pledge (promise) for the day of redemption.

Eph 1:13,14
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Eph 4:30
30Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Cor 1:21.22
21Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God,22who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

2 Cor 5:5
5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Please note that there are no conditions attached to this sealing.

In Romans, Paul opens the epistle by describing his saved audience as "called", in 1:5,6,7, and in 8:28,30. He describes righteousness as a gift in 5:15,17 and eternal life as a gift in 6:23.

Then, in 11:29, he wrote that God's calling and gift are irrevocable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top