OSAS The Truth

[chessman]

Those of you who are non- OSAS should be addressing the OP, proving it is wrong, rather than changing the thread by asking different verses to be addressed instead.

And 'good luck with that' to those anti-OSAS trying to prove 1 Peter 1:23 doesn't teach OSAS doctrine.

For when you actually read the chapter/message you find out that Peter tells these chosen believers that the imperishable seed of verse 23, which they received like we do (maybe even Uncle Mark did), is none other than the seed of The Father, that is The Son. And the reason they received Him is that they were chosen to receive Him by the Father. And their reservation (and ours by extension) in Heaven is part of God's plan.

1 Peter 1:2-5 (LEB) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and for sprinkling with the blood of Jesus Christ. May grace and peace be multiplied to you. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, ​

Did everyone catch that? Because The Seed within them/us/Uncle Mark is imperisable our inheritance is likewise imperishable, unfading and reserved by the power of ________?
A. Them/us/Uncle Mark
B. The Triune God

Uncle Mark cursed God big time, on his death bed was he still saved .?

Knowing Uncle Mark, as little as I do, it's hard to say. But it sounds like Uncle Mark's withering flesh talking (falling off), for the last time, to me: 1 Peter 1:24 For “all flesh is like grass,and all its glory like the flower of the grass.The grass withers and the flower falls off,

Romans 8:6-11 (LEB) For the mindset of the flesh is death, but the mindset of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mindset of the flesh is enmity toward God, for it is not subjected to the law of God, for it is not able to do so, and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.
1 Corinthians 12:3a Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed,
​

But you knew Uncle Mark better than I. The pertainate question is:
Did he ever truly claim Jesus is Lord?
If no, then see Rom 8:6-8 and 1 Cor 12:13a as they apply.
If yes, then see Rom 8:9-11 and 1 Cor 12:3b, and 1 Peter 1 since it was part of God's plan for Uncle Mark to claim Jesus is Lord (and truly believe in his heart) that Jesus is Lord. How do I know?

” and no one is able to say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:9-11 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also make alive your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you. ​

You might notice Paul, to my knowledge, wasn't writing to dead bodies or sinless people. But he was writing to fleshly ones.

You reckon the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead (who also lives in us and/or in Uncle Mark) might ALSO raise us/him to our reservation in Heaven? Hmm? just as sure as God raised Him, I think so.

Uncle Mark cursed God big time,

How big? Bigger than God?

 

[chessman]

NO, OSAS isn't truth, it's a doctrine of man

Are you suggesting all man-made doctrines are false?

You believe in the doctrine of gravity?

 

[JLB]

Are you suggesting all man-made doctrines are false?

You believe in the doctrine of gravity?

How does the doctrine of Gravity go?

Is it anything like the doctrine of aerodynamics?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Nope, Jesus didn't give any conditions, the New Covenant is different from the Old Covenant in that the Old was conditional on the people keeping it, the New is only conditional on God keeping His word, and since it's impossible for God to lie, ...my question still stands unanswered

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

If we choose to turn away from Christ because we became hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, then like Jesus taught in the parable of the Sower, we were saved for a while, but in time of testing we departed.


We must take heed, lest we fall, and to exercise ourselves toward godliness, so in a time of testing we will be able to faithful even unto death.


7 But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. 8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. 9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1 Timothy 4:7-10


Those who believe to the end will be saved.

For the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning of your faith, but the end.


If we are faithful unto the end, then we can expect to receive the crown of life.


Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12



JLB

 

[chessman]

How does the doctrine of Gravity go?

Is it anything like the doctrine of aerodynamics?

JLB

yes, in that they are both man-made doctrines and both true. Thus my point. Just because man studies things (nature in the case of gravity or aerodynamics and Scripture in the case of Salvation) and builds doctrines based on that study, by no means does that mean those doctrines are not true.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

If we choose to turn away from Christ because we became hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, then like Jesus taught in the parable of the Sower, we were saved for a while, but in time of testing we departed.


We must take heed, lest we fall, and to exercise ourselves toward godliness, so in a time of testing we will be able to faithful even unto death.


7 But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. 8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. 9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1 Timothy 4:7-10


Those who believe to the end will be saved.

For the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning of your faith, but the end.


If we are faithful unto the end, then we can expect to receive the crown of life.


Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12



JLB

If what you say is true, then how do you explain 1 Peter 1:23; ?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

If what you say is true, then how do you explain 1 Peter 1:23; ?

for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. 1 Peter 1:23 (ESV)

This is a statement about our new life in Christ, that it isn't a life that is corruptible like our physical life here presently on earth, but is "imperishable," which means that we will live forever. God has brought immortality to light in the gospel, and is through the living and enduring word of God.

Now, the better question is, how do we understand this text with regards to the other texts that seem to think we can lose our salvation?

That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. Romans 11:20-22 (ESV)

This text clearly indicates that the Israelites were broken off from the Covenant roots because of their unbelief, but we stand fast through faith. This inclusion is not unconditional though, as he goes on to say that he will not spare us if we lose faith. And his kindness towards us is conditional on us continuing in his kindness through faith, otherwise we too will be cut off.

This warning makes no sense in a OSAS view, as one has to be a branch in order to be cut off, and how could a non-Christian be a branch? Certainly there are strong texts involving God's protection over believers and him working in us to conform us to the image of His Son. However, that does not exclude the idea that we can reject his grace to our own destruction.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. 1 Peter 1:23 (ESV)

This is a statement about our new life in Christ, that it isn't a life that is corruptible like our physical life here presently on earth, but is "imperishable," which means that we will live forever. God has brought immortality to light in the gospel, and is through the living and enduring word of God.

Now, the better question is, how do we understand this text with regards to the other texts that seem to think we can lose our salvation?

That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. Romans 11:20-22 (ESV)

This text clearly indicates that the Israelites were broken off from the Covenant roots because of their unbelief, but we stand fast through faith. This inclusion is not unconditional though, as he goes on to say that he will not spare us if we lose faith. And his kindness towards us is conditional on us continuing in his kindness through faith, otherwise we too will be cut off.

This warning makes no sense in a OSAS view, as one has to be a branch in order to be cut off, and how could a non-Christian be a branch? Certainly there are strong texts involving God's protection over believers and him working in us to conform us to the image of His Son. However, that does not exclude the idea that we can reject his grace to our own destruction.

Your human reasoning has left me aghast!
Are you saying that we can become "un-born again"?
That we can throw away the imperishable seed that God put into us?
You'll have to use better Scripture to prove that!

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Your human reasoning has left me aghast!

Heaven forbid I use Scripture that disagrees with your view.

What is your perspective of Romans 11.

Are you saying that we can become "un-born again"?

I'm saying that us being regenerated (born again is an improper translation carried over from John 3), is based on our union with Christ. You even discussed this with me in a previous thread and couldn't find anything to criticize.

See here:

Introduction

One of the primary discussions in the last 500 years of Christian history is the question of when regeneration takes place. Does it precede the person coming to faith and thus naturally cause that affirmative reaction to the proclamation of the gospel? Or does it come after faith?

I believe the nature of these discussions to be in error on account that they ask the wrong question. The question I will be asking is, what is the cause of regeneration and why is the person regenerate?

Through the Resurrection

In Peter's first epistle, he writes the following:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead"[1]

Notice the highlighted portion of, "through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," this is just one example of the great cause for regeneration, union with Christ. It is the very same power that rose Jesus Christ from the dead, the Holy Spirit, that brings the believer to spiritual life. Here is another text that even further illustrates my point:

"I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."[2]

This is a rather interesting statement from the Apostle Paul, he uses the word "συνεσταύρωμαι" this is the Perfect tense of the verb that is translated, "I have been crucified with." This denotes a completed action that has continual results. The past action, his crucifixion with Christ. The continual results, the life he now lives he lives by faith in the Son of God. How was Paul crucified with Christ? According to the gospels, only two criminals were crucified with Christ and tradition informs us that Paul was martyred in Rome well after Jesus' crucifixion. His answer is found in Romans:

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."[3]

In other words, those who are IN Christ Jesus have been united with Christ in his death on the cross, which for the believer is the picture of being dead to sin, in order that they may be united with Jesus in his resurrection by that same Spirit. This "in" or "into" language is covenantal in nature and dates back to concepts in the Old Testament. Throughout history God has made Covenants with groups of people, but he has always done this through certain individual representatives. For example, in Romans, Paul talks about those being "of the faith of Abraham" being the true children of Abraham. Or in other words, those who have that similar faith that he has, are made participants of Abraham's blessings, so that what is true of Abraham's standing before God, is now true of them "declared righteous." This Covenant blessing we know comes most intimately though through our union with Christ.

What is now true of our great Messiah Jesus is now true of us, we have been united with him on the basis of this Covenant, entered into upon faith in him, in his death, burial and resurrection as is represented by our water baptism.

This therefore is the source of our life, our union with Jesus, in which we are made alive together with Christ.[4] To discuss the issue of regeneration apart from union with Christ is to miss the point of one of the Apostles' foundational doctrines. This doctrine is quite simple, "he who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son does not have life."[5]

Conclusion

As has been demonstrated above (and can be further demonstrated in this topic). Regeneration is the result of our union with Christ by faith by the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit. It is the fruit of being joined with Christ to walk in newness of life, where the issue is not whether or not you have been born, but if you are growing up and learning to walk and develop into maturity.. to become more like him, who you have been joined to.. Christ.

It therefore can be stated that the teaching of regeneration preceding faith, teaches a doctrine of new life apart from Christ, wholly to solve a latter doctrinal issue of how one comes to be a believer and therefore unbiblical and false. This should not be a divisive point however, and the battle of going about looking for the precise time and date of our birth certificate isn't primary, but rather that maturing process which will be the key fruit and goal of that birth.

Blessings in Christ,
DI

[1] 1 Peter 1:3 (ESV)
[2] Galatians 2:20 (ESV)
[3] Romans 6:3-4 (ESV)
[4] Ephesians 2:5 (ESV)
[5] 1 John 5:12 (ESV)

Now, if one is regenerated through Christ, then if one is broken off from Christ by a lack of faith, then they abandon the life that comes from him. All the blessings of God are through Christ, and if we are not united with him then we are separate from the blessings of God.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

You'll have to use better Scripture to prove that!

Please give us your perspective on Romans 11, I personally believe it to be inspired and authoritative. Not sure why I would need "better" Scripture, when this does a good job of stating the matter.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Heaven forbid I use Scripture that disagrees with your view.

What is your perspective of Romans 11.


I'm saying that us being regenerated (born again is an improper translation carried over from John 3), is based on our union with Christ. You even discussed this with me in a previous thread and couldn't find anything to criticize.

See here:

Now, if one is regenerated through Christ, then if one is broken off from Christ by a lack of faith, then they abandon the life that comes from him. All the blessings of God are through Christ, and if we are not united with him then we are separate from the blessings of God.

Heaven forbid?
LOL, I like that!
I'll be glad to discuss Romans 11 with you in another thread.
Right now, it seems you have a lack of understanding of 1 Peter.
Maybe I should start a thread on 1 Peter.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Heaven forbid?
LOL, I like that!
I'll be glad to discuss Romans 11 with you in another thread.
Right now, it seems you have a lack of understanding of 1 Peter.
Maybe I should start a thread on 1 Peter.

More assertions. You should demonstrate how my understanding is faulty regarding Regeneration, as I just posted a large portion of my argument regarding how I understand Regeneration and that it is caused and part of our union with Christ. If one is cut off from Christ, then they no longer have Christ's resurrection imputed to them and thus do not share in the new life.

Why can't you discuss Romans 11 in this thread, as it pertains to the subject of OSAS?

I've given you my reasoning regarding 1 Peter 1:23 (ESV), and how it is understood in the light of the whole of NT doctrine.

Now tell me about Romans 11.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You always like to double talk around everything.
It's fast becoming your trademark.
I think you need to reread 1 Peter and gain a better understanding what he is talking about before you form opinions that contradict it.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

You always like to double talk around everything.
It's fast becoming your trademark.

Thanks for sharing your opinion about me, but I would be more interested in your take on Romans 11, since I have offered my understanding on Romans 11 and 1 Peter 1:23.

That our regeneration and new life is found in union with Christ, and this union is upheld by faith in Him and aided by the Holy Spirit.

Don't know what you mean by "double talk."

I think you need to reread 1 Peter and gain a better understanding what he is talking about before you form opinions that contradict it.

You keep telling me how wrong I am about it, but don't elaborate on how I am wrong. I read it again, and I still hold to my current opinion which is consistent with the whole of NT doctrine.

Perhaps you can share your perspective on Romans 11, and how you reconcile that with your understanding of 1 Peter 1:23.

 

[chessman]

Please give us your perspective on Romans 11, I personally believe it to be inspired and authoritative. Not sure why I would need "better" Scripture, when this does a good job of stating the matter.

Romans 11:1 Therefore I say, God has not rejected his people, has he? May it never be!
​

Paul states 'the matter' unequivocally.
Using the example of the remnant of Israel, he stresses God does not reject His selected people, ever. So the only question is are you one of His people (or not), Selected by Him, by His grace, for His purpose?

Romans 11:5 So in this way also at the present time, there is a remnant selected by grace.

1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,
​

Are we protected by the power of God or not? Yes! And yes through faith.

 

[smaller]

When you have two major christian camps that disagree it usually means it's territory that demands closer inspections.

I've been on both sides of the understanding. Firmly so. Many have.

It is a bit more complicated and there are better explanations available.

For the fast track there are a couple of facts of interest for the non-OSAS camps to observe, that being not one named N.T. believer is shown to be going to suffer the fate of eternal torment. There simply is no example to look at.

Additionally it is possible to be blinded to God in Christ in this present life. That blinding is done by the god of this world, that would be our adversary, Satan, the devil. And it's done internally, in mind and heart.

THEREFORE there are factually TWO PARTIES present in the spiritually blinded. The person and the god of this world. For the unbelievers condition this fact is shown by Paul in 2 Cor. 4:4, that the god of this world blinds the minds of those who do not believe. And part of that blinding is so that the LIGHT of the Gospel does not shine upon the internal perpetrator/violator/blinding party. Such a person couldn't see if their life depended on it because they are being ruled/lorded over by a superior anti-spiritual entity within. And no, it's not talking about 'possession.'

Spiritual blindness is the condition that all of us are born into prior to belief.

Everyone is blinded to some degree anyway. There is no avoiding this conclusion. No one sees in full. We ALL see only in part and we ALL see somewhat darkly. The question to ask here is WHY?

In the final (brief) analysis of this subject matter then let's just take a look at Paul:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

A person who sees spiritually will see TWO PARTIES there. Paul and the messenger of Satan. Those who are more blinded will not and can not see the messenger of Satan as a separate party. Their mind will play tricks on them. They will see anything but the messenger of Satan. Because they too have the same issue. Partial spiritual blindness. They will see sickness or bad eyesight or anything BUT another entity. Because that same entity in them does not want to be exposed within them. And no, there is no getting rid of this occupancy. It's something that many strong believers have to contend with just as Paul did.

In Paul's case then Paul, no matter what, was saved. That just the end of this conversation as it relates to Paul. The other party, the messenger of Satan will be eternally, forever and ever, LOST without any chance whatsoever of salvation. And that's the end of that part of the equation.

Within the lump of Paul then there were factually TWO PARTIES. One saved. One lost.

Now you know the rest of the story. And if you don't, God has simply not allowed you to see this fact at the present time.

Don't feel bad. All of Israel who came out of Egypt over the age of 20 died in the desert because of unbelief save for only 2. And that included Moses no less. Even after ALL that they saw, they still suffered from unbelief and were destroyed for same, by God no less. Why? Because God does deal adversely with the OTHER PARTY in all of us.

Therefore, FEAR your MAKER. It's not just you God's dealing with.

 

[JLB]

yes, in that they are both man-made doctrines and both true. Thus my point. Just because man studies things (nature in the case of gravity or aerodynamics and Scripture in the case of Salvation) and builds doctrines based on that study, by no means does that mean those doctrines are not true.

Could you please provide a link to the doctrine of gravity.

The scriptures teach us the truth, and doctrines that come from the scriptures, that are taught by the Apostles and those who have been moved on by The Holy Spirit and Doctrines of Truth.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

The Truth this scripture teaches us is: we have become a partaker of Christ if... we continue to end.

If we depart from the living God through the deceitfulness of sin, then we are not assured of being a partaker of Christ.


Paul teaches us that if we practice the works of the flesh, then we may not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

and again -

8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

and again -

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7


because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.Therefore do not be partakers with them.


Paul exhorts us to continue steadfast to the end, and turn away from unrighteousness, and not to practice the works of the flesh lest we become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, and depart from the living God.


James sums it up this way -

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12


Finally, Paul warns Timothy about our generation -

1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. 7 But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. 8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. 9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. 1 Timothy 4:1-10


In Closing, we read Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians -


1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first... 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3


I encourage you to take heed to these scriptures, and not ignore them, as we see the Day approaching, as the falling away has already begun.



JLB

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Romans 11:1 Therefore I say, God has not rejected his people, has he? May it never be!
​

Paul states 'the matter' unequivocally.
Using the example of the remnant of Israel, he stresses God does not reject His selected people, ever. So the only question is are you one of His people (or not), Selected by Him, by His grace, for His purpose?

Romans 11:5So in this way also at the present time, there is a remnant selected by grace.

He goes on to reason that he himself was an Israelite, and that God has selected a remnant of Israelites by grace for the purpose of bringing about the inclusion of the Gentiles.

No doubt most of Israel was cut off for unbelief, but they can be grafted back in, and eventually will be.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Heaven forbid I use Scripture that disagrees with your view.

What is your perspective of Romans 11.


I'm saying that us being regenerated (born again is an improper translation carried over from John 3), is based on our union with Christ. You even discussed this with me in a previous thread and couldn't find anything to criticize.

See here:

Now, if one is regenerated through Christ, then if one is broken off from Christ by a lack of faith, then they abandon the life that comes from him. All the blessings of God are through Christ, and if we are not united with him then we are separate from the blessings of God.

The problem here is regenerate means believing and the opposite is unregenerate, which means never believing in the first place.
If one is regenerated, then one cannot be unregenerated.
Therefore, your claim of losing salvation is false.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

The problem here is regenerate means believing and the opposite is unregenerate, which means never believing in the first place.
If one is regenerated, then one cannot be unregenerated.
Therefore, your claim of losing salvation is false.

More assertions. My argument is that regeneration isn't something independent of our union with Christ, and that we are regenerated by having Christ's resurrection imputed to us, so that we now walk in newness of life. However, if one rejects Christ and no longer has faith, then they no longer have the blessings granted from that union, which include the newness of life.

How about your take on Romans 11?