Other gods

[jaybird]

There is no confusion. It is irrelevant as to whether translations use "god" or "God"; the point doesn't change. In ancient Hebrew there are no capital letters, so it's all the same word (see Ex. 20:3--it's not capitalized in a lot of versions). There are no other living, breathing Gods or gods, period. That is what Isaiah, among others, makes clear. There is only one living God that has inherent power, and that is, of course, God.

there is a big difference betwen big G and little g. one is the Most High the other refers to lesser gods. thats why they use them. if there wre no difference then the Most High would be no greater than the gods which according to you are man made.

You are divorcing the bolded section from the context of the passage and the greater context of Scripture, some of which I have provided.

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one."
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ESV)

not divorcing, i bolded it being as you keep turning a blind eye to it.
paul is speaking to greeks, they believed in gods and these gods in question were not tables, boats, or any other man made object, they were beings, they built statues of them, there are no god statues in ancient greece of common objects you find in your home or backyard. Paul acknowledges these gods, says there are many but one true Most High and that is the one to worship.

And you don't seem to fully understand worship either. It isn't just about outward actions and rituals, although it can and often does include those things, but it doesn't have to; it's also a state of one's heart.

Psa 51:16 For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it; you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. (ESV)

i get what u say about worship but i do not agree its the same. when someone goes to church and worships its not the exact same thing as someone that never goes to church, never has a thought about the Lord, speand all their free time working on a car collection. they may worship the cars, but they dont worship them the same way a devoted Christian worships the Most High. they dont think those cars are spiritual self aware beings which is what a Christian thinks. make sense?
.

 

[reba]

Agree its not the same... they worship the cars as a heathen worship his empty god

 

[Free]

there is a big difference betwen big G and little g. one is the Most High the other refers to lesser gods. thats why they use them. if there wre no difference then the Most High would be no greater than the gods which according to you are man made.

Of course in the translations there is a big difference between "God" and "god". That was not at all my point.

You stated: "i am talking about gods with a small "g" not with a big "G" there is one G-D and no more. gods are lesser and the bible speaks of many.
most all the passages you posted teach there is only one G-D. i agree"

That was in respect to the passages I gave from Isaiah. You think the meaning of the passages change if in certain instances "God" is used instead of "god." But the meaning doesn't change. It's up to translators whether they put "god" or "God." As I stated, there are no other living, breathing Gods or gods, period. That is what Isaiah, among others, makes clear. There is only one living God that has inherent power, and that is, of course, God.

not divorcing, i bolded it being as you keep turning a blind eye to it.
paul is speaking to greeks, they believed in gods and these gods in question were not tables, boats, or any other man made object, they were beings, they built statues of them, there are no god statues in ancient greece of common objects you find in your home or backyard. Paul acknowledges these gods, says there are many but one true Most High and that is the one to worship.

If you want to accuse me of turning a blind eye to that particular part, which I most certainly am not, then I am going to accuse you of turning a blind eye to the part where Paul says "so-called gods," as you have continually ignored that part despite my pointing it out several times. You are ignoring the context here. You have no basis for using the phrase 'as indeed there are many "gods",' to say that there are actually many living gods, because Paul makes very clear that these are "so-called gods". Throughout the Bible we see that they are not real; people worship them and give them names but that in no way whatsoever means that they are living beings with power.

As we all having been saying, there are only "gods" in the sense that there are things that people worship, but they are not actually gods because they don't live, they don't have power other than what people confer on them. This is why Paul says there are many gods, yet he also says they are "so-called gods."

Tables, boats, etc., are irrelevant to the passage. I don't know what your point is here. The Greeks believed in beings that were gods and created idols of them but that in no way means that these beings actually existed. Isaiah, among others, makes it clear that there is only one living being that is Go--all others are false; the imaginations of men, at best. This is what Paul is getting at in Acts 19:26, where we know from Demetrius that Paul has been "saying that gods made with hands are not gods."

i get what u say about worship but i do not agree its the same. when someone goes to church and worships its not the exact same thing as someone that never goes to church, never has a thought about the Lord, speand all their free time working on a car collection. they may worship the cars, but they dont worship them the same way a devoted Christian worships the Most High. they dont think those cars are spiritual self aware beings which is what a Christian thinks. make sense?
.

It is utterly irrelevant as to whether or not people think their cars are "spiritual self aware beings." Worship is worship. It's where one's heart is. One worships a false god and one worships the true and only living God.

 

[jaybird]

If you want to accuse me of turning a blind eye to that particular part, which I most certainly am not, then I am going to accuse you of turning a blind eye to the part where Paul says "so-called gods," as you have continually ignored that part despite my pointing it out several times. You are ignoring the context here. You have no basis for using the phrase 'as indeed there are many "gods",' to say that there are actually many living gods, because Paul makes very clear that these are "so-called gods". Throughout the Bible we see that they are not real; people worship them and give them names but that in no way whatsoever means that they are living beings with power.

so called in the context they are not creators like the Most High. they are not the true Most High. does not mean they do not exist.

As we all having been saying, there are only "gods" in the sense that there are things that people worship, but they are not actually gods because they don't live, they don't have power other than what people confer on them. This is why Paul says there are many gods, yet he also says they are "so-called gods."

the Egyptian priest got power from them

Tables, boats, etc., are irrelevant to the passage. I don't know what your point is here. The Greeks believed in beings that were gods and created idols of them but that in no way means that these beings actually existed. Isaiah, among others, makes it clear that there is only one living being that is Go--all others are false; the imaginations of men, at best. This is what Paul is getting at in Acts 19:26, where we know from Demetrius that Paul has been "saying that gods made with hands are not gods."

its very relevent when you say these gods are man made objects and the greeks didnt have statues to such things.

It is utterly irrelevant as to whether or not people think their cars are "spiritual self aware beings." Worship is worship. It's where one's heart is. One worships a false god and one worships the true and only living God.

it proves one is not the same as the other.

 

[jaybird]

so what of psalm 82?

God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
2 “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”

5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

6 I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
7 nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”

8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!

are these gods real?

 

[daninthelionsden]

The concept of what is a god is interesting. Look at an angel for instance. Strength and speed beyond measure. Invisibility, flight, teleportation, immortal. An angel is more powerful than basically all polytheistic gods.

And people who encountered them in the bible had a bad habit of falling at their feet and worshiping angels as well.

 

[daninthelionsden]

people do not bow down, worship and make sacrifice to money in the sense that money is a being with its own self awareness.
your talking about wealth and worldly possessions that take over your life, Jesus teaches on this, He never refers to them as gods.

I would say Satan and his demons can pose as a god but it is all deception from the father of all lies. These gods have no real power other than the perceptions of the carnal mind.

 

[jaybird]

I would say Satan and his demons can pose as a god but it is all deception from the father of all lies. These gods have no real power other than the perceptions of the carnal mind.

the ancient Egyptians worshiped these gods and in those days they were the most sophisticated technologically advanced culture on the planet. they also took the greatest and brightest minds and put them in positions of spirituality. yet we think they are just a bunch of foolish people that didnt know any better, this assumption coming from a culture that puts its greatest and brightest minds not into spirituality but into finance and biotechnology, positions that dont serve the greater good but actually destroy it.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

1. Jaybird, it sounds like your aproaching the matter of other gods existing from the point of do they have power or influence. From that I have two thoughts. First is the aspect of the Pharaoh. He consulted his wise men and sorcerers. Which they themselves practiced their secret arts to perform the deed. I've always seen this as them practicing sorcery and magic, or possibly even worse. The bible says not to practice or consult magic or fortune telling and I think the confrontations with the Pharaoh show that God is greater then any magic. It does not say they prayed or consulted a god, or a temple. Because of this, I don't think that the bible was talking about a power like a god.

The second thing to consider is from 1 Kings 18:16-40. Elijah, a prophet of God, challenged the false prophets of Baal and Asherah. They performed a test to see which God is God, by a test of which God would light the sacrifices on their alter. The result was worth looking at. The false prophets prayed, fasted and even cut their bodies, but no god or God listened. This should be enough to say they don't exist. They were man made. Elijah on the other hand prayed and God answered. Because of this, there is reason to believe that there is no other God except the LORD. That includes capital G and lower case g, noting the false gods.

Hope that helps.

 

[Edward]

Satan's greatest lie is getting people to believe that he doesn't exist. There are other gods. They are not GOD, they are gods in that they portrayed themselves to be and got people to believe it. Scripture names some of them. Its too early for me to look them up though.

There's Moloch, there's Baal and then there was the prince of the power of Persia, a being who withstood the messenger Angel who was trying to go to Daniel. Daniel had been fasting for 21 days, and the Angel told Daniel that he was dispatched to come give him enlightenment. But he was interfered with and delayed until Michael the ArchAngel came and fought with him, remember?

So it's not like these other gods do not exist because they do. They had to change tactics because times were changing...(Jesus came and modified our covenant!) . Now...we have the Holy Spirit, and we are in Christ and Christ in us...so these little pion gods know that so don't want to run into any Spirit filled believers who may just take them out of the game by commanding them to go to the feet of Jesus and leave this place. We have authority over them in Christ.

So they changed tactics and don't show themselves to anyone except the people who are lost in darkness. Some of these gods do have some power, and it is written that in the end times, that they will show great signs and wonders. So don't be too quick to dismiss these entities as being non existent. Understand who they are, and what their capabilities are.

 

[Edward]

Who was the guy in Acts, that got beat up by an evil spirit? He said Jesus I know and Paul I know but who are you...something like that. Then kicked his but and sent him running for his life out of the house naked?

I suppose that that mans faith was not well grounded for the spirit to be able to kick his butt? It seems to me that it would have to be a lack of faith. So be careful. Remember who we're fighting and do not underestimate them. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places...(Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.!)

That's real, Brothers and Sisters. and some of them do have some powers. Personally, I suspect that these pion gods are none other but the fallen angels who got kicked out of heaven.

Now some of the evil spirits and demons do not have any or much power because they are different. In scripture, demons are always seeking embodiment, someone to possess, and (apparently) they cant do much without a body. I think people kind of roll the demons, evil spirits, and fallen angels into one and call them all evil spirits, but I think it's important to understand that they are different types of beings. Some do have powers, others may pretend to have powers and deceive people into thinking that they do.

Some of these (fallen angels?) principalities set themselves up as gods to the people in days of old and instructed the people to worship them. Some of those Pharaohs of ancient Egypt were these same fallen ones...(I think)

I'm not sure why evil spirits want to be worshiped. What is it about worship that they desire? Some spiritual dynamic takes place, that we don't quite understand because we know very little about spiritual matters and the spirit realm...(we've been deceived.)

 

[Free]

Christianity teaches, and has always taught, monotheism--there was, is, and ever will be, only one God. To say there are other gods is polytheism (or henotheism or monolatry) not Christianity. And it makes God out to be a liar.

 

[Free]

so called in the context they are not creators like the Most High. they are not the true Most High. does not mean they do not exist.

The context of the chapter is about eating food being offered to idols. These idols are what Paul is referring to as "gods," because they are essentially one and the same.

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one." (ESV)

The Greek word for "idol" is eidolon, and means (Thayer's):

1) an image, likeness
1a) i.e. whatever represents the form of an object, either real or imaginary
1b) used of the shades of the departed, apparitions, spectres, phantoms of the mind, etc.
2) the image of an heathen god
3) a false god

Note the meaning in 1a). This is what the Greek statues to their gods were--idols that represented the image or likeness of their gods. But here we have Paul clearly stating that "an idol has no real existence." He isn't talking about the physical idols themselves, since they clearly existed. Rather, he is talking about the supposed being or deity that those idols represented.

In other words, Paul says that there is absolutely no living being, no deity, represented by those idols, those statues of the Greeks (and Romans). And this is consistent with the rest of Scripture:

2Ch 13:8 "And now you think to withstand the kingdom of the LORD in the hand of the sons of David, because you are a great multitude and have with you the golden calves that Jeroboam made you for gods.
2Ch 13:9 Have you not driven out the priests of the LORD, the sons of Aaron, and the Levites, and made priests for yourselves like the peoples of other lands? Whoever comes for ordination with a young bull or seven rams becomes a priest of what are no gods. (ESV)

Psa 115:3 Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.
Psa 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of human hands.
Psa 115:5 They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.
Psa 115:6 They have ears, but do not hear; noses, but do not smell.
Psa 115:7 They have hands, but do not feel; feet, but do not walk; and they do not make a sound in their throat.
Psa 115:8 Those who make them become like them; so do all who trust in them. (ESV)

Psa 135:15 The idols of the nations are silver and gold, the work of human hands.
Psa 135:16 They have mouths, but do not speak; they have eyes, but do not see;
Psa 135:17 they have ears, but do not hear, nor is there any breath in their mouths.
Psa 135:18 Those who make them become like them, so do all who trust in them. (ESV)

Isa 44:12 The ironsmith takes a cutting tool and works it over the coals. He fashions it with hammers and works it with his strong arm. He becomes hungry, and his strength fails; he drinks no water and is faint.
Isa 44:13 The carpenter stretches a line; he marks it out with a pencil. He shapes it with planes and marks it with a compass. He shapes it into the figure of a man, with the beauty of a man, to dwell in a house.
Isa 44:14 He cuts down cedars, or he chooses a cypress tree or an oak and lets it grow strong among the trees of the forest. He plants a cedar and the rain nourishes it.
Isa 44:15 Then it becomes fuel for a man. He takes a part of it and warms himself; he kindles a fire and bakes bread. Also he makes a god and worships it; he makes it an idol and falls down before it.
Isa 44:16 Half of it he burns in the fire. Over the half he eats meat; he roasts it and is satisfied. Also he warms himself and says, "Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire!"
Isa 44:17 And the rest of it he makes into a god, his idol, and falls down to it and worships it. He prays to it and says, "Deliver me, for you are my god!"
Isa 44:18 They know not, nor do they discern, for he has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see, and their hearts, so that they cannot understand.
Isa 44:19 No one considers, nor is there knowledge or discernment to say, "Half of it I burned in the fire; I also baked bread on its coals; I roasted meat and have eaten. And shall I make the rest of it an abomination? Shall I fall down before a block of wood?"
Isa 44:20 He feeds on ashes; a deluded heart has led him astray, and he cannot deliver himself or say, "Is there not a lie in my right hand?" (ESV)

Act 19:24 For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought no little business to the craftsmen.
Act 19:25 These he gathered together, with the workmen in similar trades, and said, "Men, you know that from this business we have our wealth.
Act 19:26 And you see and hear that not only in Ephesus but in almost all of Asia this Paul has persuaded and turned away a great many people, saying that gods made with hands are not gods.
Act 19:27 And there is danger not only that this trade of ours may come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis may be counted as nothing, and that she may even be deposed from her magnificence, she whom all Asia and the world worship." (ESV)

And notably, keeping in mind the Egyptian sorcerers and magicians:

1Co 10:19 What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything?
1Co 10:20 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons.
1Co 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. (ESV)

Here Paul states what I initially stated: that the only power that does not come from God, is from Satan and his minions. There are no other gods that live, breath, and have any sort of power. They only have whatever power we confer on them or power that comes from demons to deceive and destroy.

the Egyptian priest got power from them

Please provide evidence. Until then, you're just begging the question.

its very relevent when you say these gods are man made objects and the greeks didnt have statues to such things.

Are statues and idols not manmade? Are not the Greek gods just the imaginations of men, making them manmade?

it proves one is not the same as the other.

One "what" is not the same as the other?

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Satan's greatest lie is getting people to believe that he doesn't exist. There are other gods. They are not GOD, they are gods in that they portrayed themselves to be and got people to believe it. Scripture names some of them. Its too early for me to look them up though.

There's Moloch, there's Baal and then there was the prince of the power of Persia, a being who withstood the messenger Angel who was trying to go to Daniel. Daniel had been fasting for 21 days, and the Angel told Daniel that he was dispatched to come give him enlightenment. But he was interfered with and delayed until Michael the ArchAngel came and fought with him, remember?

So it's not like these other gods do not exist because they do. They had to change tactics because times were changing...(Jesus came and modified our covenant!) . Now...we have the Holy Spirit, and we are in Christ and Christ in us...so these little pion gods know that so don't want to run into any Spirit filled believers who may just take them out of the game by commanding them to go to the feet of Jesus and leave this place. We have authority over them in Christ.

So they changed tactics and don't show themselves to anyone except the people who are lost in darkness. Some of these gods do have some power, and it is written that in the end times, that they will show great signs and wonders. So don't be too quick to dismiss these entities as being non existent. Understand who they are, and what their capabilities are.

Who was the guy in Acts, that got beat up by an evil spirit? He said Jesus I know and Paul I know but who are you...something like that. Then kicked his but and sent him running for his life out of the house naked?

I suppose that that mans faith was not well grounded for the spirit to be able to kick his butt? It seems to me that it would have to be a lack of faith. So be careful. Remember who we're fighting and do not underestimate them. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places...(Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.!)

That's real, Brothers and Sisters. and some of them do have some powers. Personally, I suspect that these pion gods are none other but the fallen angels who got kicked out of heaven.

Now some of the evil spirits and demons do not have any or much power because they are different. In scripture, demons are always seeking embodiment, someone to possess, and (apparently) they cant do much without a body. I think people kind of roll the demons, evil spirits, and fallen angels into one and call them all evil spirits, but I think it's important to understand that they are different types of beings. Some do have powers, others may pretend to have powers and deceive people into thinking that they do.

Some of these (fallen angels?) principalities set themselves up as gods to the people in days of old and instructed the people to worship them. Some of those Pharaohs of ancient Egypt were these same fallen ones...(I think)

I'm not sure why evil spirits want to be worshiped. What is it about worship that they desire? Some spiritual dynamic takes place, that we don't quite understand because we know very little about spiritual matters and the spirit realm...(we've been deceived.)

Hi Edward. Your right that there are other entities that the bible recoginizes such as fallen angels, and the mysterious principalities and other authorities that aren't flesh and blood that we are to fight against. But there is also in the bible discriptions said of false prophets and false gods. Even to say that some of those who were the most angry at the desciples spreading the gospel in Acts were the craftsmen who made the idols for people to worship. They came together and riled up the town being preached at against the Christians and their message. These aren't acts of miracles or of god like signs, but they are more the acts of subtle greed. Though that is something Satan uses in his bag of tricks against mankind, I don't want to make the mistake of saying that is all we have to worry about and leave out the other powerful entities, but nor do I think we should ignore these subtler influences either.

In either case though how we combat against these influences, (regardless of real or fake) are the same. We follow the teachings and comandments of God. Even with wearing the armor of God that Paul describes to protect us from Satan's snares and attacks, our only weapon described is the Word described as a sword. Jesus acted simularily when Satan temped Him in the wilderness. Jesus refuted Satan again and again by scripture. My figuring is if we do the same on any aspect confronting us we say "what does the bible say." Then we will in effect be doing worse to these powers when we confront them, even if we don't know if we are confronting them or not. We will be following God and His wisdom if not His direct actions in response to our faith and perseverance will be the sword against them.

 

[jaybird]

1. Jaybird, it sounds like your aproaching the matter of other gods existing from the point of do they have power or influence. From that I have two thoughts. First is the aspect of the Pharaoh. He consulted his wise men and sorcerers. Which they themselves practiced their secret arts to perform the deed. I've always seen this as them practicing sorcery and magic, or possibly even worse. The bible says not to practice or consult magic or fortune telling and I think the confrontations with the Pharaoh show that God is greater then any magic. It does not say they prayed or consulted a god, or a temple. Because of this, I don't think that the bible was talking about a power like a god.

The second thing to consider is from 1 Kings 18:16-40. Elijah, a prophet of God, challenged the false prophets of Baal and Asherah. They performed a test to see which God is God, by a test of which God would light the sacrifices on their alter. The result was worth looking at. The false prophets prayed, fasted and even cut their bodies, but no god or God listened. This should be enough to say they don't exist. They were man made. Elijah on the other hand prayed and God answered. Because of this, there is reason to believe that there is no other God except the LORD. That includes capital G and lower case g, noting the false gods.

Hope that helps.

i would think they do have power and influence. its power is of darkness. with all the darkness in the world today, and so much division among Christians i would say its pretty powerful.
the event in 1 kings IMO was a test of who was the greatest, the Most High or the gods. the Canaanites and their decedents served these gods, above them (according to their belief) there was none greater. this is what we are commanded not to do, we are not commanded to deny their existence.
theres also the psalms passage where the Most High is holding an assembly among the gods.

 

[reba]

one of the things that make 'gods work' is a belief of the persons involved.. like voodoo

 

[jaybird]

The context of the chapter is about eating food being offered to idols. These idols are what Paul is referring to as "gods," because they are essentially one and the same.

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one." (ESV)

The Greek word for "idol" is eidolon, and means (Thayer's):

1) an image, likeness
1a) i.e. whatever represents the form of an object, either real or imaginary
1b) used of the shades of the departed, apparitions, spectres, phantoms of the mind, etc.
2) the image of an heathen god
3) a false god

Note the meaning in 1a). This is what the Greek statues to their gods were--idols that represented the image or likeness of their gods. But here we have Paul clearly stating that "an idol has no real existence." He isn't talking about the physical idols themselves, since they clearly existed. Rather, he is talking about the supposed being or deity that those idols represented.

In other words, Paul says that there is absolutely no living being, no deity, represented by those idols, those statues of the Greeks (and Romans). And this is consistent with the rest of Scripture:

2Ch 13:8 "And now you think to withstand the kingdom of the LORD in the hand of the sons of David, because you are a great multitude and have with you the golden calves that Jeroboam made you for gods.
2Ch 13:9 Have you not driven out the priests of the LORD, the sons of Aaron, and the Levites, and made priests for yourselves like the peoples of other lands? Whoever comes for ordination with a young bull or seven rams becomes a priest of what are no gods. (ESV)

Psa 115:3 Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.
Psa 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of human hands.
Psa 115:5 They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.
Psa 115:6 They have ears, but do not hear; noses, but do not smell.
Psa 115:7 They have hands, but do not feel; feet, but do not walk; and they do not make a sound in their throat.
Psa 115:8 Those who make them become like them; so do all who trust in them. (ESV)

Psa 135:15 The idols of the nations are silver and gold, the work of human hands.
Psa 135:16 They have mouths, but do not speak; they have eyes, but do not see;
Psa 135:17 they have ears, but do not hear, nor is there any breath in their mouths.
Psa 135:18 Those who make them become like them, so do all who trust in them. (ESV)

Isa 44:12 The ironsmith takes a cutting tool and works it over the coals. He fashions it with hammers and works it with his strong arm. He becomes hungry, and his strength fails; he drinks no water and is faint.
Isa 44:13 The carpenter stretches a line; he marks it out with a pencil. He shapes it with planes and marks it with a compass. He shapes it into the figure of a man, with the beauty of a man, to dwell in a house.
Isa 44:14 He cuts down cedars, or he chooses a cypress tree or an oak and lets it grow strong among the trees of the forest. He plants a cedar and the rain nourishes it.
Isa 44:15 Then it becomes fuel for a man. He takes a part of it and warms himself; he kindles a fire and bakes bread. Also he makes a god and worships it; he makes it an idol and falls down before it.
Isa 44:16 Half of it he burns in the fire. Over the half he eats meat; he roasts it and is satisfied. Also he warms himself and says, "Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire!"
Isa 44:17 And the rest of it he makes into a god, his idol, and falls down to it and worships it. He prays to it and says, "Deliver me, for you are my god!"
Isa 44:18 They know not, nor do they discern, for he has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see, and their hearts, so that they cannot understand.
Isa 44:19 No one considers, nor is there knowledge or discernment to say, "Half of it I burned in the fire; I also baked bread on its coals; I roasted meat and have eaten. And shall I make the rest of it an abomination? Shall I fall down before a block of wood?"
Isa 44:20 He feeds on ashes; a deluded heart has led him astray, and he cannot deliver himself or say, "Is there not a lie in my right hand?" (ESV)

Act 19:24 For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought no little business to the craftsmen.
Act 19:25 These he gathered together, with the workmen in similar trades, and said, "Men, you know that from this business we have our wealth.
Act 19:26 And you see and hear that not only in Ephesus but in almost all of Asia this Paul has persuaded and turned away a great many people, saying that gods made with hands are not gods.
Act 19:27 And there is danger not only that this trade of ours may come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis may be counted as nothing, and that she may even be deposed from her magnificence, she whom all Asia and the world worship." (ESV)

And notably, keeping in mind the Egyptian sorcerers and magicians:

1Co 10:19 What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything?
1Co 10:20 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons.
1Co 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. (ESV)

Here Paul states what I initially stated: that the only power that does not come from God, is from Satan and his minions. There are no other gods that live, breath, and have any sort of power. They only have whatever power we confer on them or power that comes from demons to deceive and destroy.

the idols in themself have no power, the beings they represent are not the idol.

Please provide evidence. Until then, you're just begging the question.

the Egyptian priest and their dark arts. your saying it came from Satan, it may have, but the bible never says their god was satan it says they served gods and even mentions them by name

Are statues and idols not manmade? Are not the Greek gods just the imaginations of men, making them manmade?

the idols are, the beings they represent are not made by man

One "what" is not the same as the other?

worship

and what of the psalms passage where the Most High is holding an assembly among the gods? how does that work

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

i would think they do have power and influence. its power is of darkness. with all the darkness in the world today, and so much division among Christians i would say its pretty powerful.
the event in 1 kings IMO was a test of who was the greatest, the Most High or the gods. the Canaanites and their decedents served these gods, above them (according to their belief) there was none greater. this is what we are commanded not to do, we are not commanded to deny their existence.
theres also the psalms passage where the Most High is holding an assembly among the gods.

The powers and influences in the world are not gods though. Greed is a force as is any other sin is a force to deal with. But we don't confuse the influences of anger, lust, or greed as being gods. I understand the aspect of having an open mind to other possibilities, and what if the other cultures and their beliefs have merit. But when the bible should be the standard. If a culture worships their king or their Pharaoh as a god, that is a lie and holds no merrit. If a craftsmen makes a beautiful or terrifying work of art or sculpture and says worship this it is a god, that is also a lie. As to the account in 1 Kings 18. The influence of the idol worship and false prophets were being faught against. They both lead to detestable practices like prostitute shrines, and child sacrifices; as well as leading people away from God and His teachings by the competing market practices of the Egyptians, the Babylons, and the existing practices of the Canaanites through the Philistines.

I'm not trying to say there are no dark powers or even the dark influences that snare us into sins and temptations. But I do want to make clear my understanding of the matter is that they are not gods.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Jaybird,will fall on your fa
Free has devoted a great deal of effort explaining there is, nut, one Living God, If you will fall on your face and seek after the truth, God, in his time, will answer you and when He does you will never believe as you do again. My brother, half Indian, once elieved in the Great White Father, right up until he dtde a stretch in the Texas Penal System. There he found Jesus and realized there are no other Living Gods, that there are none but Jesus that lives.

I commend Free for the effort he is expending on you but you need to address the issue on tthe same level he, i, and a few others have, Until you seek the truth on the Spiritual Level, you cannot know the truth that Free is attempting to introduce you to,

 

[jaybird]

The powers and influences in the world are not gods though.

maybe not but i think its very strange that there are such things as egyptian obelisks in the middle of DC and vatican city, 2 of the most influential cities on the planet, new york harbor has a statue semiramis. walk into the US capital and look up at the rotunda, and you see The Apotheosis of Washington meaning washington becoming a god, the EU building is modeled after the tower of bable, the hadron collider, the most expensive piece of scientific equipment on the planet, which one of its purpose is to find the "god particle" has a statue of shiva.
i find it hard to believe the source of all the inspiration to build these thigs comes from mankind, satan and nothing else. i dont see satan mentioned anywhere in these things. not saying he is a good guy or anything, he is still "the evil one" just like Jesus says. i just think this whole thing is bigger than what many want to believe. i think the answers are in the bible but people dont want to see.