Other gods

[jaybird]

Jaybird,will fall on your fa
Free has devoted a great deal of effort explaining there is, nut, one Living God, If you will fall on your face and seek after the truth, God, in his time, will answer you and when He does you will never believe as you do again. My brother, half Indian, once elieved in the Great White Father, right up until he dtde a stretch in the Texas Penal System. There he found Jesus and realized there are no other Living Gods, that there are none but Jesus that lives.

I commend Free for the effort he is expending on you but you need to address the issue on tthe same level he, i, and a few others have, Until you seek the truth on the Spiritual Level, you cannot know the truth that Free is attempting to introduce you to,

"ask, seek, knock" this is what Jesus taught and i believe these things will be answered.
the gods i am going on about, i do not look at them with the same authority as the Most High. i dont know what they are but i think they are something not to be ignored. i dont see how one can be prepared to deal with forces of darkness when they are ignorant of them. make sense?

 

[th1b.taylor]

"ask, seek, knock" this is what Jesus taught and i believe these things will be answered.
the gods i am going on about, i do not look at them with the same authority as the Most High.The i dont know what they are but i think they are something not to be ignored. i dont see how one can be prepared to deal with forces of darkness when they are ignorant of them. make sense?

The gods you aqre going on about are wood and stone statues that humans believed had the power of a god after they had made them... because, just, like the Hebrews when they made the Golden Calf. They arem in fact the same gods that are made of poured concrete found along side of the walkway and entrance t othe Japanese homes amd restaurants. They are the sames gods the Voo Doctors invoke and you place pretense on the same level as the Most High? Blasphemy!

 

[jaybird]

The gods you aqre going on about are wood and stone statues that humans believed had the power of a god after they had made them... because, just, like the Hebrews when they made the Golden Calf. They arem in fact the same gods that are made of poured concrete found along side of the walkway and entrance t othe Japanese homes amd restaurants. They are the sames gods the Voo Doctors invoke and you place pretense on the same level as the Most High? Blasphemy!

the gods i am going on about, i do not look at them with the same authority as the Most High

i dont think you read it right.

 

[th1b.taylor]

i dont think you read it right.

There simply is one God and to believe otherwise is to be a Lost Person and I don't want that for anyone.

 

[Northman]

I'm not sure why evil spirits want to be worshiped. What is it about worship that they desire? Some spiritual dynamic takes place, that we don't quite understand because we know very little about spiritual matters and the spirit realm...(we've been deceived.)

The heart of evil has to be understood. The short answer is that they really dont care or desire to be worshiped by us(people). We really dont matter much to them at all. What does matter to them is God. All they are seeking to do is make God mad constantly. To vex Him is their whole purpose. When these things get us to worship them they are standing there laughing and pointing and us and God saying "haha look what I made your creation do haha". Every single time they succeed in influencing us to any evil its the same thing, they are standing there laughing and mocking God. We dont have much in the way to do with anything and are only tools for their use. God cares about us so they mess with us.

As for the enemy himself, yes we know he likes worship. The thing about that though is where he desires it from. I do believe he desires it from a worthy heavenly host and not from us who he considers worthless peons. If he did desire our fealty then he would put in the work to get it done the same way he did in convincing a third of heaven to follow him. As of now we know that earthly followers of the enemy are deceived when doing it, they are doing the work of the devil without knowing. He knows he wouldnt be able to literally raise his standard and make a call and have droves of humanity rise up and follow him. There is no way that in any culture or region or religion on this planet could he walk in and say "Hey! Im raising a rebellion against God! Who wants in?" He doesnt even try this path.

Who knows about why there are a handful of actual satanists. Im betting they are partially deceived as well.

 

[Northman]

i find it hard to believe the source of all the inspiration to build these thigs comes from mankind, satan and nothing else. i dont see satan mentioned anywhere in these things.

If you check out the second paragraph of post 85 it should shed some insight.

not saying he is a good guy or anything, he is still "the evil one" just like Jesus says. i just think this whole thing is bigger than what many want to believe. i think the answers are in the bible but people dont want to see.

Im not sure its about wanting to see. Its probably more along the lines of they really dont have to delve into any of it. There is only one being in creation worthy of worship and most Christians understand that.

I do agree with some things you are saying. No people dont actually worship cars or their possessions or positions at work. None of these things are being prayed to or asked for anything. Most in the west have been void of the actual biblical version of idolatry that they forgot what it really was. I have no idea where the theological line started being drawn to where things that you spend the most time with are your gods. If that were true then every single human that has ever lived would have work and sleep as their gods. Its nonsense. Scripture is always true though and you will find a verse stating that certain people had made their bellies their gods. Its about service, not to be confused with the sin of overindulgence.

As far as power goes. There is only ONE source of power and that is God. He has given it to whom he has. When evil entities spark the idea of another god they usually hang around and do things to get folks to buy into it. The power they have is displayed in plain sight and act as puppeteer. As in they are right there performing the "magic" that everyone who cant see them thinks is coming from the hand of a man. This is exactly the kind of scenario that was on display for pharaoh. This happens or has happened pretty much everywhere.

 

[Free]

the idols in themself have no power, the beings they represent are not the idol.

I wish I could so easily dismiss someone's arguments and the Scriptures they give in support. But that just isn't fair nor is it conducive for coming to the truth of a matter, so I don't do it.

Most notably we have:

1. 2 Chronicles stating that there were golden calves, idols, created as gods. Those were their gods.
2. Isaiah saying that to make an idol is to make a god.
3. Paul saying "that gods made with hands are not gods".
4. Paul saying that participation in the worship of idols is participation with demons.
5. Paul saying that "an idol has no real existence." Does Paul think that these idols are illusions, that they don't physically exist? Of course not. He could see and touch them. So what could he mean then? That there is no divine being behind them; they represent nothing except what is in the minds of depraved men. Notice that this is entirely consistent with the previous points.

I should also add what God said to Moses:

Exo 20:23 You shall not make gods of silver to be with me, nor shall you make for yourselves gods of gold. (ESV)

And what the people asked of Aaron:

Exo 32:1 When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron and said to him, "Up, make us gods who shall go before us. As for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him."
Exo 32:2 So Aaron said to them, "Take off the rings of gold that are in the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me."
Exo 32:3 So all the people took off the rings of gold that were in their ears and brought them to Aaron.
Exo 32:4 And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!" (ESV)
...
Exo 32:31 So Moses returned to the LORD and said, "Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. (ESV)

And more of what God says:

Exo 34:17 "You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal. (ESV)

Lev 19:4 Do not turn to idols or make for yourselves any gods of cast metal: I am the LORD your God. (ESV)

Deu 4:28 And there you will serve gods of wood and stone, the work of human hands, that neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. (ESV)

Deu 28:36 "The LORD will bring you and your king whom you set over you to a nation that neither you nor your fathers have known. And there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone. (ESV)

1Ki 14:9 but you have done evil above all who were before you and have gone and made for yourself other gods and metal images, provoking me to anger, and have cast me behind your back, (ESV)

And it cannot get any clearer than this:

Psa 96:4 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; he is to be feared above all gods.
Psa 96:5 For all the gods of the peoples are worthless idols, but the LORD made the heavens. (ESV)

We can clearly see then that "all the gods of the peoples are worthless idols," that they are manmade. Any actual power they seem to have is demonic; all other power is what people confer on them.

the Egyptian priest and their dark arts. your saying it came from Satan, it may have, but the bible never says their god was satan it says they served gods and even mentions them by name

The Bible doesn't have to say that "their god was Satan". Given all the Bible has to say about false gods, it goes without saying. That there gods have names is irrelevant. Do you think that when kids give their imaginary friends names, that the imaginary friend must therefore actually exist?

the idols are, the beings they represent are not made by man

Do you think that any imaginary being that a person can make up in their mind is real? Or would you agree that they are manmade?

and what of the psalms passage where the Most High is holding an assembly among the gods? how does that work

Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
Psa 82:2 "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked."
Psa 82:5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Psa 82:6 I said, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;
Psa 82:7 nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince."
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations! (ESV)

This is just one other use of "god". It is used here and possibly in a handful of other places, as referring to those persons whom God has appointed as his representatives and judges. This passage is about those whom God appointed as judges but are judging wrongfully.

 

[jaybird]

I wish I could so easily dismiss someone's arguments and the Scriptures they give in support. But that just isn't fair nor is it conducive for coming to the truth of a matter, so I don't do it.

Most notably we have:

1. 2 Chronicles stating that there were golden calves, idols, created as gods. Those were their gods.
2. Isaiah saying that to make an idol is to make a god.
3. Paul saying "that gods made with hands are not gods".
4. Paul saying that participation in the worship of idols is participation with demons.
5. Paul saying that "an idol has no real existence." Does Paul think that these idols are illusions, that they don't physically exist? Of course not. He could see and touch them. So what could he mean then? That there is no divine being behind them; they represent nothing except what is in the minds of depraved men. Notice that this is entirely consistent with the previous points.

I should also add what God said to Moses:
Exo 20:23 You shall not make gods of silver to be with me, nor shall you make for yourselves gods of gold. (ESV)

And what the people asked of Aaron:

Exo 32:1 When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron and said to him, "Up, make us gods who shall go before us. As for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him."

Exo 32:2 So Aaron said to them, "Take off the rings of gold that are in the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me."

Exo 32:3 So all the people took off the rings of gold that were in their ears and brought them to Aaron.
Exo 32:4 And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!" (ESV)
Exo 32:31 So Moses returned to the LORD and said, "Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. (ESV)
And more of what God says:

Exo 34:17 "You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal. (ESV)

Lev 19:4 Do not turn to idols or make for yourselves any gods of cast metal: I am the LORD your God. (ESV)
Deu 4:28 And there you will serve gods of wood and stone, the work of human hands, that neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. (ESV)

Deu 28:36 "The LORD will bring you and your king whom you set over you to a nation that neither you nor your fathers have known. And there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone. (ESV)

1Ki 14:9 but you have done evil above all who were before you and have gone and made for yourself other gods and metal images, provoking me to anger, and have cast me behind your back, (ESV)
And it cannot get any clearer than this:

Psa 96:4 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; he is to be feared above all gods.

Psa 96:5 For all the gods of the peoples are worthless idols, but the LORD made the heavens. (ESV)


We can clearly see then that "all the gods of the peoples are worthless idols," that they are manmade. Any actual power they seem to have is demonic; all other power is what people confer on them.

i think your mixing up idols and gods. the bible speaks of both, your referring to each instance as idols only. the idols in them self are man made and have no power.

Ex 20 3-4
3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

ex 3, we can clearly see says not to worship other gods, we can see it does not say not to create gods, that is mentioned in ex 4.

 

[jaybird]

The Bible doesn't have to say that "their god was Satan". Given all the Bible has to say about false gods, it goes without saying. That there gods have names is irrelevant. Do you think that when kids give their imaginary friends names, that the imaginary friend must therefore actually exist?

it doesnt have to say??? so the bible does not specify and you think its ok to input what ever works best with the current theology? not sure i agree on that one

This is just one other use of "god"

this is what i have been trying to explain all along. god is used several different ways. ther4e is only one Most High. but the bible also mentions angels, satan, moses, etc as gods. we never think of these uses as being equal with the Most High.

Psa 82: . . .
This is just one other use of "god". It is used here and possibly in a handful of other places, as referring to those persons whom God has appointed as his representatives and judges. This passage is about those whom God appointed as judges but are judging wrongfully.

and these judges,what kind of persons are they, of heaven, earth, humans, angels, other?

 

[th1b.taylor]

i think your mixing up idols and gods. the bible speaks of both, your referring to each instance as idols only. the idols in them self are man made and have no power.

Ex 20 3-4
3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

ex 3, we can clearly see says not to worship other gods, we can see it does not say not to create gods, that is mentioned in ex 4.

 

[th1b.taylor]

And when viewed with the light of all other scripture shinning on them it cab clearly be seen that these other gods were made with the hnds of Craftsmen, just as was the Golden Calf.

 

[jaybird]

If he did desire our fealty then he would put in the work to get it done the same way he did in convincing a third of heaven to follow him.
the third of heaven that followed, what u think happened to them?

Who knows about why there are a handful of actual satanists. Im betting they are partially deceived as well.

in the dark belief systems you have satanism and lucifainism. most say these are one and the same but to those that practice its very different. lucifainism flip flop Jesus and satan. satanist believe satan is satan and worship him anyway. IMO most of these (the satanist) are just a bunch of nerds that never had girlfriends.

 

[jaybird]

And when viewed with the light of all other scripture shinning on them it cab clearly be seen that these other gods were made with the hnds of Craftsmen, just as was the Golden Calf.

the bible speaks of angels and satan, as gods. mankind did not make them.

 

[th1b.taylor]

the bible speaks of angels and satan, as gods. mankind did not make them.

You still have a skewed, non-Christian, view.

 

[jaybird]

You still have a skewed, non-Christian, view.

if angels can be called gods it onkly makes sense that fallen angels would be called gods as well. gen 6 and Jude teach on the fallen ones.

 

[th1b.taylor]

if angels can be called gods it onkly makes sense that fallen angels would be called gods as well. gen 6 and Jude teach on the fallen ones.

Angels were considered gods by the Ancient Hebrews but the Revelation of God has been and is progressing revelation and today, with many studying and seeking God's understanding we know better. To begin with God has no beginning and He has no end. The Angels, fallen or not were created by God to be his and our servants in Heaven, just as we were and are created to keep Him company, fellowship.

 

[jaybird]

Angels were considered gods by the Ancient Hebrews but the Revelation of God has been and is progressing revelation and today, with many studying and seeking God's understanding we know better.

"we know better" i hear this a lot from many Christians referring to the ancient hebrews or the 12 and any other ancient culture. maybe you know better, but i dont. i think the ancients knew a great deal more. i thnk we come from a culture that thinks we are the apex of mankind because we have shopping malls, striped toothpaste and satellite tv with 500 plus channels or reality tv to choose from. we kill people for killing people, make war to gain peace, we even have children write their names on bombs that are gonna be dropped on and kill other children. maybe im weird but i think our world is backward and upside down. maybe we can learn something from the ancient cultures that devoted every day to prayer and worship rather than the present day that only spends one day.

To begin with God has no beginning and He has no end. The Angels, fallen or not were created by God to be his and our servants in Heaven, just as we were and are created to keep Him company, fellowship.

this i agree with

 

[th1b.taylor]

"we know better" i hear this a lot from many Christians referring to the ancient hebrews or the 12

You will always get that answer because as I stated, the revelation of God has always been progressive, just read the Bible like any other book, from front to back and you can see that.

 

[jaybird]

You will always get that answer because as I stated, the revelation of God has always been progressive, just read the Bible like any other book, from front to back and you can see that.

i agree it is progressive. and i think all the answers are in the bible. i also think there is much more to it than what we see on the surface.
Luke 8:10
he said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’
what secrets is He speaking of?
Matthew 24:37
For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
so what was going on in the days of Noah?

 

[Edward]

i agree it is progressive. and i think all the answers are in the bible. i also think there is much more to it than what we see on the surface.
Luke 8:10
he said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’
what secrets is He speaking of?
Matthew 24:37
For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
so what was going on in the days of Noah?

You have to go back to Genesis 6 to see what was going on in Noahs day.

Genesis 6
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.../