Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
Thank you@Rajesh Sahu
I, for one, appreciate your discourse (at least for now). I hope you don't get banned from discussion either on this topic or on this site. I think I recognize the difference between proselytizing, antagonizing and concern for the path that your fellow man is on. I love one mans concern for his brother(s) (I despise proselytizing disguised as concern).
I think it's OK to question Paul. I think it's OK to have any of our beliefs questioned. After all, it's how our foundation is strengthened and, when necessary, corrected.
If belief is defined as those things that you hold to be Truth then acting on those beliefs is the actual concept of Faith. (Faith is NOT belief! It might be better described as the manifesting of a belief, or action based upon a held belief. If I could pass on thing along to a brother that didn't yet understand that, I think it would be that.)
We can have faith in God's Word or we can have faith in 'other than' His Word. (Faith in 'other than' His Word is essentially the concept of vanity, right?) Faith in the Word of God is the only way to obtain His favor (grace) that I am aware of.
Having said that, I think that if a man acts on what he has honestly come to understand to be God's Word, even if he is in error, is never the less Faithing to his best ability and will receive God's merciful attention. It may not be His joyous attention but it will almost assuredly be merciful (Job's "words without knowledge" come to mind).
Entire interpretation of Christian faith revolves around the crucial God inspired question I asked. Requesting you to answer them( if you will) in your diligence. Other questions can wait. Apologize for that inconvenience
You have asked several questions and I have answered you.
You said yesterday you would answer my questions, today.
Do you believe we as the Church are to sacrifice animals for our sins according to the law of Moses?
Do you believe a person must become physically circumcised according law of Moses, in order to be in covenant with God?
Do you believe we as the Church are to observe the Sabbath requirements according to the law of Moses?
JLB
ezrider
Member
I have addressed you multiple times in this thread and each time you have ignored them. I'm sorry, but your delusions are becoming even more confusing for me to try and follow. First you rant about how Paul is a deceiver somehow for teaching grace. Grace, a word that you say Christ never uttered, while ignoring the multiple scriptures about Christ being the personification of grace. But now you have carried this further into claiming Paul stood in accusation against Christ for stating the law of ordinances was nail to the cross with Christ.
Rajesh Sahu, Do you understand that the Law of Moses is actually a CURSE? Do you understand that the only reason the law of commandments was given to Moses for the children of Israel was because they FIRST REJECTED the Lord? They would not go up the mountain when called.
Zechariah 4:4-9
So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying,
Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit,
saith the LORD of hosts.
Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain:
and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house;
his hands shall also finish it;
and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
Rajesh Sahu, do understand what the prophets declared? In your dismissal of Paul, should we dismiss Zechariah and the prophets too?
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
No digressions today. Take a rain check from me for next week. I will diligently answer every question. Please wait . This is of vital importance says Jesus Christ the Lord. He has been accused of ABOLISHING Father God's eternal Law and crucifying it to the cross (Ephesians 2:15 Colossians 2 :14)
So you accept that DAVID WAS deceiving when He repeatedly called it ETERNAL , FOREVER AND EVER and delight of his soul ( Psalm 19:9-11 Psalm 111:7-8
David said the OPPOSITE of what you just said GOD'S ETERNAL LAW IS A CURSE
I would highly encourage you to sit down and spend few weeks studying Psalm 119 dedicated by David SPECIFICALLY to exalt and extol the Law.
And let me assure you friend, David understood God and His Law better than you and me 
Last edited:
stovebolts
Member
All,
I have moved this thread to the Rejected Christian Ideas forum.
Please edit your Profile Preferences and select "Yes" for the Heresies option to gain access.
All requests are processed at 20 minutes past each hour.
I have moved this thread to the Rejected Christian Ideas forum.
Please edit your Profile Preferences and select "Yes" for the Heresies option to gain access.
All requests are processed at 20 minutes past each hour.
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his nameEntire interpretation of Christian faith revolves around the crucial God inspired question I asked. Requesting you to answer them( if you will) in your diligence. Other questions can wait. Apologize for that inconvenience
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Peter -Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
I was steered to Christ from my beginning by my Christian Mother. I have believed in and loved Jesus as far back as my memory goes. I was baptized in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit in church. I have the Spirit of Christ in me. I have had Jesus answer prayers via Spirit to my spirit with words in my mind. I am neither kosher nor do I keep a sabbath day as in the law with eve meals prepared in advance. I am in the faith Paul preached about.
Like Paul I see all the law as law and Paul considered the law in judgments he made. Such as "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.”
We use the NT as a guide to know commandments of importance to keep.
You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’”
And we also know to abstain from sexual immorality.
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Jesus-Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
The Christian interpretation is correct, " We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
If you are dead in your sins how did you save yourself from the curse of the law you put so much faith in? Gods grace given through Jesus Christ.
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
Jesus didn't preach/teach this as the way. "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
Jesus preached/taught this as the way. "“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. As in the one who believes in Him will never die.
If righteousness could be obtained by works of the law Christ died for nothing.
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
Didn't they close this thread ?
christian1724
2024 Supporter
Apparently not.
Dorothy Mae
Member
There is a new covenant, a change of priesthood which entails a change of law.Yes absolutely, else I will be decimated , like everyone else who does not obey the entire Law of God. I do that according to HOW Christ taught us all to OBEY THE LAW it in it's ENTIRETY......Through Matthew 22:37-40
And
Matthew 7:12
I bet you didn't know ( along with two billion other Christians) that Jesus had taught us HOW TO OBEY God's Law ....it lies concealed because of Paul who CRUCIFIED and ABOLISHED God's ETERNAL Law --- Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15
Why do you think I'm fighting tooth and nail for Father God and Christ Jesus my Lord ? Lot of damage done past 2000 years by Pauline teachings needs to be undone. Yet most unfortunately and ironically the very Christians for whom I'm fighting for, attack me ( often fiercely) for contending to teach the true doctrine of Christ and expose the false apostle. It hurts deeply
But deeper is the hurt when God's Eternal Law is referenced as you just did " OLD TESTAMENT LAW"
stovebolts
Member
No, I simply moved it. You were sent a system notification when I moved it.
ezrider
Member
So you accept that DAVID WAS deceiving when He repeatedly called it ETERNAL , FOREVER AND EVER and delight of his soul ( Psalm 19:9-11 Psalm 111:7-8
David said the OPPOSITE of what you just said GOD'S ETERNAL LAW IS A CURSE
I would highly encourage you to sit down and spend few weeks studying Psalm 119 dedicated by David SPECIFICALLY to exalt and extol the Law.
Thank you for this response to me Rajesh. It clears things up for me a lot. It shows me you have no understanding of the matters you are attempting to discuss.
Do you understand the difference between God's Eternal Law AND the two covenants?
Do you understand the penalty for failing to keep all of the law? Adam was told even in the garden, that you shall Die. The first covenant was a covenant with Death, it came with the curses. Are you familiar with the book of Deuteronomy?
Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood; And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven. And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law: So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the LORD hath laid upon it; And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath: Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger? Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them: And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book: And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day. The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
The curses belongeth to the covenant written in the books of the law. The Blessings belongeth to those under the New Covenant in Christ who's laws are written in our hearts by the Spirit of the Lord.
I'm sure you understand the old covenant, or what is referred to as the Law of Moses, began with the 10 commandments; But are you aware the Law of Christ began with 10 blessings?
In all of your commentary here, I don't hear you testifying of Christ except to say Jesus never uttered the word Grace, even though he spoke of the weightier matter of the law, that being judgement, and MERCY and FAITH.
Wherewith shall I come before the LORD,
and bow myself before the high God?
shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves of a year old?
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams,
or with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good;
and what doth the LORD require of thee,
but to do justly, and to love mercy,
and to walk humbly with thy God?
If it be the Lord's good pleasure to send a man such strong delusion that it confirms his belief in a lie, so that he believes the lie with his whole heart, then who am I to stand in condemnation; the Lord's will be done. If I could pass along one thing to you, it would be your need to return to the basics, that you might first know your feet are planted firmly on a sound foundation.
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
Just reported you to the mods,/ management for offensive harrasment and uncalled for judgmental language.
Consecrated Life
Member
00000000000
Christians like Paul , Like me, like you perhaps are not commanded to make " acceptance" happen.
That is not to say that it can't happen at the moment .
But that is usually the exception not the rule.
As Christians we are only commanded to turn the page.
Paul is not the Holy Spirit .
Christians like Paul , Like me, like you perhaps are not commanded to make " acceptance" happen.
That is not to say that it can't happen at the moment .
But that is usually the exception not the rule.
As Christians we are only commanded to turn the page.
Angel_Stewart88
Member
Is this conversation being carried on in a different forum?
Angel_Stewart88
Member
Is there a continuation here? Your responses are incredible!
Sometimes conversations end and a thread turns cold. This thread was made back in Sept 2009 and died out in 2022.
Acts 19
God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?”
You assume Paul but a great weight of testimony directly states to His Apostleship. Why did you overlook and not believe all that testimony? Besides I have the Spirit of Christ in me the testimony of Him is true. You can't ever defeat Christianity.
The Ephesus Church as with all the churches in Asia Minor (Ephesus, Philippi, Corinth, Thessalonica, Galatians, and even the Church at Rome) were all founded by Jewish Christians who went to the Feast of Trumpets (Pentecost) in Acts 2. Many Jews from Gentile lands (Asia Minor) came to the Feast when they heard the disciples speaking in tongues.
There are seventeen languages and dialects that were spoken by the Galilean disciples that morning they most likely did not know. Those that heard Peter and the disciples speaking their language were also present immediately after that event and were among the 3000 that were saved that day. Peter described through Old Testament Scripture what was going on and spoke other Scripture about the covenants and what God was now doing in the earth. These Jewish believers in Christ - the first Christians - returned home full of the Holy Spirit and shared their excitement and their experience at meeting the Holy Spirit of Promise.
In Peter's sermon to the twelve tribes present for the Feast he brings up Old Testament Scripture and prophecies having to do with what happened that morning and these Jews went back to Asia Minor and through their witnessing to other Jews these other Jews became saved and filled with the Holy Spirit of Promise and the Christian Church was populated with Jews in these Gentile cities and towns and their only background to explain their experiences were from their Scriptures. In the beginning I am sure these Jewish Christians at first were a novelty and accepted by their non-saved Jewish brethren in their synagogues but in time this fact that their Messiah and Christ died on a tree would have offended them and caused division. Thus, these Jewish Christians began to gather in their homes to fellowship.
Jesus ascended 30 A.D.
Paul was saved on the road to Damascus, Syria around 34 A.D. and he went into the desert for about fourteen years and spent 3 years in Jerusalem. In the meantime, the Jewish churches grew and was populated by Jews. There may have been Gentiles in this fellowship but because these were Jewish churches, I am sure they practiced separation from Gentiles in their fellowship as they did in the Temple and in their synagogues. So, for about 30-40 years after the ascension the first Christian churches were populated by Jews who I am also sure fumbled their way through their growth practicing a sort of Hellenized Judaism. By the time Paul visited Galatia and wrote to these Jewish Christians (depending on when one dates his Galatian letter 49-54 A.D.) and also his letter to Rome (64 A.D.) in which Paul instructs these Jewish Christian brethren on dealing with Gentiles and other Jewish issues they pretty much followed Judaism which was all they knew until Paul made attempt through his letters to set them straight.
When Paul did visit these cities with the revelation of Scripture God gave him under his belt and his teaching on Gentiles, I am sure in the beginning his Jewish brethren in Christ in these cities in Asai Minor rejected his counsel and instruction. Peter, James, and the other Jewish disciples of the Lamb also would have held to Judaism in their Christianity until Paul (and others who were of note among the apostles) would have begun to follow Paul's teaching that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised to be 1) saved, and 2) join the Church. When Paul went to Antioch, he withstood Peter to his face because he was eating with Gentiles until Judaizers from James came and he separated himself and began to eat with Jews and even Barnabas was carried away with his hypocrisy.
When the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. these Jewish Christians may have lost the pre-eminence as more and more Gentiles began to be saved and soon it was the Jewish Christians that became a minority and Gentiles the majority.
BUT I must disagree with sc0rpi0n's position that Revelation 2:1ff identifies Paul as a false apostle. There is nowhere in this prophecy naming Paul as a false apostle. To do so and maintain this understanding is error.
There are seventeen languages and dialects that were spoken by the Galilean disciples that morning they most likely did not know. Those that heard Peter and the disciples speaking their language were also present immediately after that event and were among the 3000 that were saved that day. Peter described through Old Testament Scripture what was going on and spoke other Scripture about the covenants and what God was now doing in the earth. These Jewish believers in Christ - the first Christians - returned home full of the Holy Spirit and shared their excitement and their experience at meeting the Holy Spirit of Promise.
In Peter's sermon to the twelve tribes present for the Feast he brings up Old Testament Scripture and prophecies having to do with what happened that morning and these Jews went back to Asia Minor and through their witnessing to other Jews these other Jews became saved and filled with the Holy Spirit of Promise and the Christian Church was populated with Jews in these Gentile cities and towns and their only background to explain their experiences were from their Scriptures. In the beginning I am sure these Jewish Christians at first were a novelty and accepted by their non-saved Jewish brethren in their synagogues but in time this fact that their Messiah and Christ died on a tree would have offended them and caused division. Thus, these Jewish Christians began to gather in their homes to fellowship.
Jesus ascended 30 A.D.
Paul was saved on the road to Damascus, Syria around 34 A.D. and he went into the desert for about fourteen years and spent 3 years in Jerusalem. In the meantime, the Jewish churches grew and was populated by Jews. There may have been Gentiles in this fellowship but because these were Jewish churches, I am sure they practiced separation from Gentiles in their fellowship as they did in the Temple and in their synagogues. So, for about 30-40 years after the ascension the first Christian churches were populated by Jews who I am also sure fumbled their way through their growth practicing a sort of Hellenized Judaism. By the time Paul visited Galatia and wrote to these Jewish Christians (depending on when one dates his Galatian letter 49-54 A.D.) and also his letter to Rome (64 A.D.) in which Paul instructs these Jewish Christian brethren on dealing with Gentiles and other Jewish issues they pretty much followed Judaism which was all they knew until Paul made attempt through his letters to set them straight.
When Paul did visit these cities with the revelation of Scripture God gave him under his belt and his teaching on Gentiles, I am sure in the beginning his Jewish brethren in Christ in these cities in Asai Minor rejected his counsel and instruction. Peter, James, and the other Jewish disciples of the Lamb also would have held to Judaism in their Christianity until Paul (and others who were of note among the apostles) would have begun to follow Paul's teaching that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised to be 1) saved, and 2) join the Church. When Paul went to Antioch, he withstood Peter to his face because he was eating with Gentiles until Judaizers from James came and he separated himself and began to eat with Jews and even Barnabas was carried away with his hypocrisy.
When the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. these Jewish Christians may have lost the pre-eminence as more and more Gentiles began to be saved and soon it was the Jewish Christians that became a minority and Gentiles the majority.
BUT I must disagree with sc0rpi0n's position that Revelation 2:1ff identifies Paul as a false apostle. There is nowhere in this prophecy naming Paul as a false apostle. To do so and maintain this understanding is error.