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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Portrait of the Modern, Self-righteous Pharisee
- Thread starter AVBunyan
- Start date
C
cj
Guest
Vic said:I'm just trying to turn on the fan and close the bathroom door before the foul odor seeps into this room.:
The Great and Powerful OZ has spoken! :-D
You're funny.
cj
O
Orthodoxy
Guest
Vic said:I'm just trying to turn on the fan and close the bathroom door before the foul odor seeps into this room.
The Great and Powerful OZ has spoken! :-D
I knew you were the man behind the curtain!
L
Lyric's Dad
Guest
Not so Heidi. We most certainly are under the old covenant. Jesus did not come to do away with it, He came to FULFILL it. Without grace, we are still expected to completely fulfill the demands of the law. That is why Jesus came. We are incapable of filling the law's demands so we have to have His grace. This does not mean we are not under the law though. It's demands over us have just been met by Christ. It certainly has not been replaced, but has been fulfilled.Heidi said:
Lyric's Dad said:
I realize that Jesus came to fulfill it which is why we are no longer under it but under Christ instead. Ephesians 2:14, "For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, dividing the wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations."
The law can now be summed up in one word, love, "for love is the fulfillment of the law."
Since Jesus forgave us, we can now love and thank God with all of our hearts, souls, and minds, forgive our brother which means we will not murder him, steal from him, covet his possessions, lie to him, we will honor our parents, and not put any God before the one true God.
You people who are so stuck on OT law have no clue that the forgiveness we received from Christ automatically enables us to keep OT law because it breeds forgiveness inside of us for our brother.
But those who don't feel forgiven still feel they have to earn their way to heaven through works. The joy, happiness and fruits of the Spirit come from the knowledge that we have been forgiven once and for all. No knowledge of forgiveness, no joy, love, or fruits of the Spirit.
The law exists now only to convict us of sin. It is not something under which we are slaves any more. Christ already fulfilled it for us! Thanks be to God!!! But to say we are still under law says that he did not fulfill it for us and that his sacrifice was for nothing. Therefore,"We are no longer under law but under Grace." 
O
Orthodox Christian
Guest
Covenants are associated with Israel not with the body of Christ. 8-)[/quote]AVBunyan said:
Not so:
Gen. 9:12-13
And God said, This [is] the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that [is] with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen. 17:4
As for me, behold, my covenant [is] with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Mal. 3:1
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Luke 22:20
And in the same way {He took} the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.
heb. 8:13
In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
heb 10:16
This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 12:24
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
Heb 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant
The New Covenant makes the Old "vanish away" by driving it out from the performing of works for men into the inner Temple. In this inner Temple, the call is to holiness, and the spirit of the Law, if not the letter, remains.
C
cj
Guest
See, I love when OC speaks like this.
What is a covenant?
Only something as good as whoever can maintain it.
And only God can.
A covenant is really just God in His expression towards man at a particular point in His economy.
God introduces a covenant because He has a need which the covenant takes care of.
But really, its all about Him, and still is. And He does not change.
The OT was about men being restricted outwardly to cuse an inward response, the NT is about men being restrained inwardly to produce an outward response.
But the restriction in both cases is just God and the response in both cases is just the response from man that God wants.
In love,
cj
What is a covenant?
Only something as good as whoever can maintain it.
And only God can.
A covenant is really just God in His expression towards man at a particular point in His economy.
God introduces a covenant because He has a need which the covenant takes care of.
But really, its all about Him, and still is. And He does not change.
The OT was about men being restricted outwardly to cuse an inward response, the NT is about men being restrained inwardly to produce an outward response.
But the restriction in both cases is just God and the response in both cases is just the response from man that God wants.
In love,
cj
C
cj
Guest
Re: Covenants
No, not so AVB,....
Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of the old covenant, and we participate in it by being found in Him.
To be in Jesus Crist is the same as being in all that He is and has accomplished. Therefore, every believer is connected to the old covenant because every believer is in Jesus Christ.
And believers are the body of the church.
As for not knowing what is body of Christ is, you might be surprised by your own lack of understanding of this particular matter.
In love,
cj
AVBunyan said:
No, not so AVB,....
Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of the old covenant, and we participate in it by being found in Him.
To be in Jesus Crist is the same as being in all that He is and has accomplished. Therefore, every believer is connected to the old covenant because every believer is in Jesus Christ.
And believers are the body of the church.
As for not knowing what is body of Christ is, you might be surprised by your own lack of understanding of this particular matter.
In love,
cj
Re: Covenants
It was Jesus who fulfilled the law for us, not us, Cj. That's why we now come to him for forgiveness which is what enables us to obey the law. But the Jews do not do this so they are under the old coevnant. If the old and new convenants are one in the same, then there was no need for God to bring us a new convenant. ;-)
cj said:
It was Jesus who fulfilled the law for us, not us, Cj. That's why we now come to him for forgiveness which is what enables us to obey the law. But the Jews do not do this so they are under the old coevnant. If the old and new convenants are one in the same, then there was no need for God to bring us a new convenant. ;-)
C
cj
Guest
Re: Covenants
Tell you what, instead of me saying "Back at you", how about we simply discuss it on this board?
Since you introduced it I'll give you the floor .
In love,
cj
AVBunyan said:
Tell you what, instead of me saying "Back at you", how about we simply discuss it on this board?
Since you introduced it I'll give you the floor .
In love,
cj
Re: Covenants
My concern right now is justification by faith - I got sidetracked.
Therefore I will choose to step back - I do not want to create division over this issue. It is just when church age saints start getting into covenants then doctrine gets confusing.
May God bless
Please accept my sincere apology for even bringing up the issue of covenants. It is not a major issue worth going over at this point. I should have never brought it up.cj said:
My concern right now is justification by faith - I got sidetracked.
Therefore I will choose to step back - I do not want to create division over this issue. It is just when church age saints start getting into covenants then doctrine gets confusing.
May God bless
C
cj
Guest
Re: Covenants
Heidi, in all care for you consider the following,....
Jesus not only fulfilled the law, but He embodies all that the law represents.
Jesus in His Person is the embodiment of the essence/reality of the OT law.
Well, in a sense perhaps, but we need to go far deeper in order to truly apprehend the full truth regarding this matter.
See, we are becoming God in life and nature. And therefore, all that is the essence and reality of the OT law/covenant, which is to say, all that God is expressed in these things, we are also ourselves becoming.
In the future there will come a time when one sees a believer they will see the fulfillment of the OT law/covenant.
What really enables us to obey God is God in us as the life-giving Spirit in our spirit, one with us and empowering us to express God in all our living and being.
Unfortunately, for a time we remain unperfected and therefore enter into sin, and in doing so in a sense become seperated from our spirit where God is as life to us. Repenting is what turns us back to our spirit and to the life it contains.
See, I did not say that the old and the new were the same, don't pt words in my mouth.
But see this, are you not the same person you were twenty years ago (I don't know your age so I'm just using an example)?
Yes right,.... but also no.
Likewise, with the old and new economies of God, they are as different as you are in your adulthood from your childhood, but just as you are still you, these two economies of God are still just the one God expressed.
Also, understand this Heidi, its the mercy of God towards Gentiles that has kept the Jews veiled for all this time. For what God has done in Gentiles He can most certainly do in Jews.
Many Jews don't see because God has not yet fully opened their eyes.
But there are many Jews who love God and have come to know Christ through the same mercy of God that Gentiles receive.
Remember the early apostles Heidi, all were Jews.
Don't generalize.
In love,
cj
Heidi said:
Heidi, in all care for you consider the following,....
Jesus not only fulfilled the law, but He embodies all that the law represents.
Jesus in His Person is the embodiment of the essence/reality of the OT law.
Heidi said:
Well, in a sense perhaps, but we need to go far deeper in order to truly apprehend the full truth regarding this matter.
See, we are becoming God in life and nature. And therefore, all that is the essence and reality of the OT law/covenant, which is to say, all that God is expressed in these things, we are also ourselves becoming.
In the future there will come a time when one sees a believer they will see the fulfillment of the OT law/covenant.
What really enables us to obey God is God in us as the life-giving Spirit in our spirit, one with us and empowering us to express God in all our living and being.
Unfortunately, for a time we remain unperfected and therefore enter into sin, and in doing so in a sense become seperated from our spirit where God is as life to us. Repenting is what turns us back to our spirit and to the life it contains.
Heidi said:
See, I did not say that the old and the new were the same, don't pt words in my mouth.
But see this, are you not the same person you were twenty years ago (I don't know your age so I'm just using an example)?
Yes right,.... but also no.
Likewise, with the old and new economies of God, they are as different as you are in your adulthood from your childhood, but just as you are still you, these two economies of God are still just the one God expressed.
Also, understand this Heidi, its the mercy of God towards Gentiles that has kept the Jews veiled for all this time. For what God has done in Gentiles He can most certainly do in Jews.
Many Jews don't see because God has not yet fully opened their eyes.
But there are many Jews who love God and have come to know Christ through the same mercy of God that Gentiles receive.
Remember the early apostles Heidi, all were Jews.
Don't generalize.
In love,
cj
J
jgarden_47
Guest
Paul refers to himself as the Apostle to the Gentiles and Peter as the Apostle to the Jews. James, leader of the Jerusalem Church, sent observers to ensure Peter would conform to Jewish law and not eat with Gentile Christians. (Galatians 2) Paul accused him publicly of not following the gospel.
It would appear that the Jerusalem Church and the Judaizers viewed Christianity within the context of Judaism - association Jews, circumcision. Paul differed on both accounts and argued that circumcision was mutilation of the flesh and wasn't necessary for Gentiles.
Paul emphasized justification by faith while James stressed justification by works.
It would appear that the Jerusalem Church and the Judaizers viewed Christianity within the context of Judaism - association Jews, circumcision. Paul differed on both accounts and argued that circumcision was mutilation of the flesh and wasn't necessary for Gentiles.
Paul emphasized justification by faith while James stressed justification by works.
Re: Covenants
We will only be close to being like God when we go to heaven. And even then, Christ will be the head of all things because he was the first born of God. Even the apostle Paul asked God to take the thorn from his flesh but God refused, saying his grace was sufficient for Paul. And Paul cited the reason as "so that I will not become conceited." Only God knows how much each of us can bear and what sins to take away what not to. So no, we will never be God. But only when we die will all that's left in us be the Spirit.
cj said:
We will only be close to being like God when we go to heaven. And even then, Christ will be the head of all things because he was the first born of God. Even the apostle Paul asked God to take the thorn from his flesh but God refused, saying his grace was sufficient for Paul. And Paul cited the reason as "so that I will not become conceited." Only God knows how much each of us can bear and what sins to take away what not to. So no, we will never be God. But only when we die will all that's left in us be the Spirit.