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Post-Trib Model Failure: The Attitude of The Unbelieving World

Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Hmmm Was Jesus on' the throne of his glory' when Stephen had his vision?
Im not sure what that has to do with anything but no.
Acts 7v55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Im not sure what that has to do with anything but no.
Acts 7v55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Tell me of a place more glorious.
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

you are making a huge leap to support your pos were the scripture does not.
Tell me of a place more glorious than the place Christ was last seen.

Tell me of a power or authority that is unclaimed by Christ today.
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Tell me of a place more glorious than the place Christ was last seen.

Tell me of a power or authority that is unclaimed by Christ today.

Just admit your minor mistake. Christ was at the time of Stephen's martyrdom still only the Father's right hand man. He would not be given the Throne until 70AD.
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Just admit your minor mistake. Christ was at the time of Stephen's martyrdom still only the Father's right hand man. He would not be given the Throne until 70AD.
Errrr ahhhhh 70 1/2???
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Tell me of a place more glorious than the place Christ was last seen.

Tell me of a power or authority that is unclaimed by Christ today.

Christ has not yet claimed all his power and authority,
1 Cor 15v23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all AUTHORITY and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Christ has not yet claimed all his power and authority,
1 Cor 15v23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all AUTHORITY and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:





Must be the full moon.
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:





Must be the full moon.
Yes but it has not yet been claimed per paul, he has not yet made all men subject to him, not til the harvest.
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Yes but it has not yet been claimed per paul, he has not yet made all men subject to him, not til the harvest.



quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Hitch
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:









Most futurist dont care much for what Jesus has to say, you're no exception.
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Agreed, absolutly 100 % This is also the 7th trump per Rev 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

And after the tribulation per Mathew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

That's right but- the "sitting on 12 thrones as judges over the tribes of Israel" took place during "the reformation of Israel" in the 1st century AD. The Apostles accomplished this already. We already received the kingdom! The kingdom was near in THEIR day, & far past in ours. The kingdom is forever. [Dan.2 & 7]
Hebrews was written approx.64AD-66AD. And what did the writer say then?

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.[Heb.12:28-29]

They already did the groundwork for us. They spread the kingdom of God (the gospel of the kingdom).
Paul said the gospel was spread to every creature under heaven. Then, not now. But we keep spreading the gospel bc the world has grown since they accomplished their mission.

However, the kingdom has come.
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

That's right but- the "sitting on 12 thrones as judges over the tribes of Israel" took place during "the reformation of Israel" in the 1st century AD. The Apostles accomplished this already. We already received the kingdom! The kingdom was near in THEIR day, & far past in ours. The kingdom is forever. [Dan.2 & 7]
Hebrews was written approx.64AD-66AD. And what did the writer say then?

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.[Heb.12:28-29]

They already did the groundwork for us. They spread the kingdom of God (the gospel of the kingdom).
Paul said the gospel was spread to every creature under heaven. Then, not now. But we keep spreading the gospel bc the world has grown since they accomplished their mission.

However, the kingdom has come.
Nonsense, all power has been given to christ but he has not yet assumed the throne of david. The kindom of God does not yet dominate the kingdoms of man.
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Nonsense, all power has been given to christ but he has not yet assumed the throne of david. The kindom of God does not yet dominate the kingdoms of man.
Whos throne is he seated on ?
 
Re: Things which shall be hereafter...

Whos throne is he seated on ?

Well from what i see here it looks to me like he is set down at the right hand of Gods throne, but not yet in his own.
MATTHEW 5
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's THRONE:
MATTHEW 19
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the THRONE of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
MATTHEW 23
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the THRONE of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
MATTHEW 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the THRONE of his glory:
LUKE 1
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the THRONE of his father David:
ACTS 2
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his THRONE;
ACTS 7
49 Heaven is my THRONE, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
ACTS 12
21 And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his THRONE, and made an oration unto them.
HEBREWS 1
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy THRONE, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
HEBREWS 4
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the THRONE of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
HEBREWS 8
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the THRONE of the Majesty in the heavens;
HEBREWS 12
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the THRONE of God.
REVELATION 1
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his THRONE;
REVELATION 3
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my THRONE, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his THRONE.
REVELATION 4
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a THRONE was set in heaven, and one sat on the THRONE.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the THRONE, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the THRONE were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the THRONE proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the THRONE, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6 And before the THRONE there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the THRONE, and round about the THRONE, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the THRONE, who liveth for ever and ever,
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the THRONE, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the THRONE, saying,
REVELATION 5
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the THRONE a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the THRONE and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the THRONE.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the THRONE and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the THRONE, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
REVELATION 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the THRONE, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
REVELATION 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the THRONE, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the THRONE, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the THRONE, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the THRONE on their faces, and worshipped God,
15 Therefore are they before the THRONE of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the THRONE shall dwell among them.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the THRONE shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
REVELATION 8
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the THRONE.
REVELATION 12
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his THRONE.
REVELATION 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the THRONE, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the THRONE of God.
REVELATION 16
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the THRONE, saying, It is done.
REVELATION 19
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the THRONE, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5 And a voice came out of the THRONE, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
REVELATION 20
11 And I saw a great white THRONE, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
REVELATION 21
5 And he that sat upon the THRONE said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
REVELATION 22
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the THRONE of God and of the Lamb.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the THRONE of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
--END--
 
Is the idea that being as 'the Right Hand of Power' means equality with the Father beyond your grasp? Doesnt the fact that one of the reasons the jews sought to kill him was the very fact that he claimed unity with the Father?

It is evident you think nothing at all of denigrating our Lord's position in order to make your eschatological scheme work. What position could there be that is more exalted than the one He holds this very day?
 
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Is the idea that being as 'the Right Hand of Power' means equality with the Father beyond your grasp? Doesnt the fact that one of the reasons the jews sought to kill him was the very fact that he claimed unity with the Father?

It is evident you think nothing at all of denigrating our Lord's position in order to make your eschatological scheme work. What position could there be that is more exalted than the one He holds this very day?

You have made the claim that he has already been exalted, and given that the promise is from God it is as good as done, but you are making assumptions based on assumptions That simply do not fit the clearly stated scriptures. You accept only the words of Jesus, as if the rest of the bible were rubbish, in doing so you extract from the bible as you please, and remove his life, from the context of the big picture. And seem not to recognise that Jesus as the lamb was submisive to earthly kings and would not act in a way that would politisize his death and detract from the nature of his gift. It is as the lion of the tribe of judah, that he will take unto him his kingdom, and reign with an iron fist. In his exaultation every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is king of kings and lord of lords. This simply has not yet happened.
 
You have made the claim that he has already been exalted, and given that the promise is from God it is as good as done,
Acts 5:31
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

LOL
but you are making assumptions based on assumptions That simply do not fit the clearly stated scriptures. You accept only the words of Jesus, as if the rest of the bible were rubbish,
Do you know that ACTS is a book of the New Testament ?
in doing so you extract from the bible as you please, and remove his life, from the context of the big picture. And seem not to recognise that Jesus as the lamb was submisive to earthly kings and would not act in a way that would politisize his death and detract from the nature of his gift. It is as the lion of the tribe of judah, that he will take unto him his kingdom, and reign with an iron fist.
Acts 5:31
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


Now any lying fool can say Christ has not been exalted but no so-called believer has any excuse.
Philippians 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Only a liar would say Christ has NOT been exalted .

The same dsigusting swine that would say Christ has yet to be crowned;

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man

Do you understand the concept of past tense ? Since I know you cant recognize New Testament book titles. Can you locate your rear with both hands?
 
You have made the claim that he has already been exalted, and given that the promise is from God it is as good as done,
Acts 5:31
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

LOL Do you know that ACTS is a book of the New Testament ? Acts 5:31
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


Now any lying fool can say Christ has not been exalted but no so-called believer has any excuse.
Only a liar would say Christ has NOT been exalted .

The same dsigusting swine that would say Christ has yet to be crowned;

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man

Do you understand the concept of past tense ? Since I know you cant recognize New Testament book titles. Can you locate your rear with both hands?
The word exahalted was a poor choice, of coarse he has been exalted by God in the heavenlies. The challenge was to the claim that Jesus has assumed his throne.


32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God EXALTED, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
 
You have made the claim that he has already been exalted, and given that the promise is from God it is as good as done,

The word exahalted was a poor choice, of coarse he has been exalted by God in the heavenlies. The challenge was to the claim that Jesus has assumed his throne.


32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God EXALTED, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

And is there any position more glorious than the God's Right Hand ?
 
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