Postmillenialism is the Only Optimistic View Of End Times

[Iconoclast]

The mount of olives was spilt in two to make a way of escape from the surrounding armies as I "read" in Zech 14. Armies that will be destroyed by the Lord not man. That didn't happen in the 1st century.

More from He shall Have Dominion by Dr. Ken Gentry
This entire dispensational scheme is wholly out of accord with the flow of redemptive history, so much so that it has been called an“evangelical heresy” by Meredith G. Kline. Indeed, “A. A. Hodge, B. B.Warfield, and J. G Machen . . . were outspoken opponents of dispensationalism, which they considered close to heresy.” Non-premillennial 5evangelicals vigorously denounce this interpretation. As redemptive history progresses to “the last days” (Isa 2:2–4; 1Co 10:11; Heb 9:26),which Christ institutes in the first century as the “fullness of time” (Mk1:14–15; Gal 4:4; Heb 1:1–2), the entire temple order and sacrificial system is forever done away with (Mt 24:1–34; Heb 8:13; Rev 11).Accompanying the physical temple’s removal, divine worship is forever d e-centralized and universalized (Jn 4:21–23; Mt 28:18–20). In addition,
God merges the redeemed of all nations into one kingdom without ethnic distinction (Ro 11:13–24; Eph 2:12–21; Gal 6:12–16; Rev 7:9–10). This very much contradicts dispensationalism’s reversing the divine economy back to an old covenant-like order, complete with the elevating of the Jewish race over all peoples. Of course, a major problem with the dispensational viewpoint herein Zechariah 14 is it’s a priori interpretive literalism (see ch. 7). The postmillennialist would interpret the passage in a much different light. The whole passage — as often with prophecy — is a mingling of literal and figurative prophetic allusions, as we shall see. The Postmillennial Interpretation The siege of Jerusalem described in Zechariah 14:1–2 points to the AD 70 judgment upon Jerusalem. J. Dwight Pentecost admits that the
disciples who hear the Olivet Discourse would naturally apply Zechariah14 to that event. But then, he says, such requires the confusing of God’s program for the church with that for Israel. So, he and other dispensationalists interpret the passage literalistically, with all the topographical and redemptive historical absurdities this creates. As they
do this they totally omit any reference to the destruction of the very city and temple being rebuilt in Zechariah’s day. Yet this literal temple (the second temple) is destroyed in AD 70, as all agree.

 

[Iconoclast]

pt2.
Zechariah 14:1–2 pictures the Roman imperial forces joining the various client kings who engage the Jewish War AD 67–70. conducted by an empire of “nations” (v 2), consisting not only of the Romans but the lands of Syria, The consequences are disastrous: much of Israel’s population is either killed or led captive. D. A. Carson observes that never was “so high a percentage of a great city so thoroughly and painfully exterminated and enslaved as during the Fall of Jerusalem.” Yet the Lord defends those who are truly his people, insuring their escape from the besieged city (vv 3–4). The Lord will fight for his true people “as when he fought in the day of battle” (v 4). The Lord’s feet standing on the Mount of Olives and his fighting for his people need be no more literal than other references regarding the Lord’s fighting for Israel in the Old Testament. The language is similar to that in Joshua 10:14, 42 and 23:3, where the Lord“fought for Israel.” In Joshua these references indicate his providential favor in Israel’s victory and deliverance, not his corporeal presence. Prophecy often mentions God’s feet when his and Israel’s enemies are thwarted and are given success against all odds (Ps 18:9; Isa 60:13; Nah1:3; Hab 3:5).The cleaving of the Mount of Olives under him employs the common imagery of God’s conquering and restraining power in Old Testament prophecy. In Micah 1:3–4 we read that “the LORD is coming out of His place; He will come down and tread on the high places of the earth. The mountains will melt under him, and the valleys will split like wax before the fire, like waters poured down a steep place.” Even dispensationalists admit this speaks of the Old Testament subjugation of Israel under heathen nations for her sin. Mentioning the direction of the cleft “indicates the direction of their flight,” i.e., the Christians who flee Jerusalem when God judges it. They ultimately flee to all points of the compass, taking the gospel with them (cf. vv 8–9). 7. Swain, Harper History of Civilization, 1:198. The Roman empire was composed of imperial provinces, senatorial provinces, and client kingdoms. In the latter part of verse 5 the coming judgment upon Jerusalem, which disperses the Christians over the Roman Empire, is ultimately God’s coming in angelic judgment (“holy ones” are angels). Jerusalem’s destruction by Rome is providential destruction by “his armies” (Mt 22:7).It leads to darkness and woe upon Israel (Zec 14:6–7; cf. Ac 2:20, 22; Mt24:29). Yet, as Jerusalem collapses and Christianity separates from her Jewish constraints, the waters of life begin flowing out into all the world (v 8; cp. Mt 24:14; Ac 1:8; 9:15). The Lord’s kingdom overflows Israel’s limited borders so that the he becomes the King of all the earth (v 9; Mt28:18–19; Eph 1:20–21). The subsequent topographical and liturgical references figuratively portray the ethical and spiritual changes that occur under Christ’s spiritual administration as his worship spreads through the earth (vv 10ff ).
Even Jerusalem and the Jews shall be nourished by the waters of life eventually (vv 10–11; cf. Eze 47:1ff; Jn 7:38–39). The enemies of God’s people will either be vanquished (vv 12–13, 14), converted (vv 16, 20–21),or reduced to insignificance (vv 14, 17–19).The Feast of Tabernacles is mentioned, not as a literal reinstitution of the Old Testament feast, but as the ultimate hope pre-figured in that feast: the time of the full evangelical harvest (cf. Jn 4:35–38). Those who do not convert will be reduced to servile labors, lacking the blessing of God (vv 17–19).Overall, however, the kingdom of God (represented here by a rejuvenated Jerusalem, cp. Gal 4:25–26; Heb 12:22; Rev 21:2) will be spread throughout the earth. All areas of life will be consecrated to the Lord :even the horses’ bells will contain the inscription written on the High Priest’s miter (vv 20–21).

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

More from He shall Have Dominion by Dr. Ken Gentry

TL; DR

 

[Randy]

More from He shall Have Dominion by Dr. Ken Gentry
This entire dispensational scheme is wholly out of accord with the flow of redemptive history, so much so that it has been called an“evangelical heresy” by Meredith G. Kline. Indeed, “A. A. Hodge, B. B.Warfield, and J. G Machen . . . were outspoken opponents of dispensationalism, which they considered close to heresy.” Non-premillennial 5evangelicals vigorously denounce this interpretation. As redemptive history progresses to “the last days” (Isa 2:2–4; 1Co 10:11; Heb 9:26),which Christ institutes in the first century as the “fullness of time” (Mk1:14–15; Gal 4:4; Heb 1:1–2), the entire temple order and sacrificial system is forever done away with (Mt 24:1–34; Heb 8:13; Rev 11).Accompanying the physical temple’s removal, divine worship is forever d e-centralized and universalized (Jn 4:21–23; Mt 28:18–20). In addition,
God merges the redeemed of all nations into one kingdom without ethnic distinction (Ro 11:13–24; Eph 2:12–21; Gal 6:12–16; Rev 7:9–10). This very much contradicts dispensationalism’s reversing the divine economy back to an old covenant-like order, complete with the elevating of the Jewish race over all peoples. Of course, a major problem with the dispensational viewpoint herein Zechariah 14 is it’s a priori interpretive literalism (see ch. 7). The postmillennialist would interpret the passage in a much different light. The whole passage — as often with prophecy — is a mingling of literal and figurative prophetic allusions, as we shall see. The Postmillennial Interpretation The siege of Jerusalem described in Zechariah 14:1–2 points to the AD 70 judgment upon Jerusalem. J. Dwight Pentecost admits that the
disciples who hear the Olivet Discourse would naturally apply Zechariah14 to that event. But then, he says, such requires the confusing of God’s program for the church with that for Israel. So, he and other dispensationalists interpret the passage literalistically, with all the topographical and redemptive historical absurdities this creates. As they
do this they totally omit any reference to the destruction of the very city and temple being rebuilt in Zechariah’s day. Yet this literal temple (the second temple) is destroyed in AD 70, as all agree.

Any gathering won't happen until the man of lawlessness reveals himself in the temple of God proclaiming himself God That man is destroyed by a coming of the Lord as I read in 2thess 2.
Rev 11 speaks of more than an inner sanctuary and the two witnesses testify for 1260 days as I read.
The 1000 years starts at the 1st resurrection, the resurrection of the righteous, as I read in Rev 20.

I don't follow theologians. I state what I read in the NT.
The bowl judgments are the judgments that plunge the beast's kingdom into darkness and that beast is captured and defeated by a coming of the Lord NOT the armies of man.
Rev 16
They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

 

[Iconoclast]

Any gathering won't happen until the man of lawlessness reveals himself in the temple of God proclaiming himself God That man is destroyed by a coming of the Lord as I read in 2thess 2.

Nero did that when the temple was still standing. He committed the abomination that makes desolate;
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
All these things took place by 70ad. There was a temple, a holy place standing, the Jews saw it and many did flee to Pella. You have no temple, you have no Jews alive who crucified Jesus, to see Him who they pierced.
Furthermore they cannot recreate a "new holy place". There are no more animal sacrifices that have any validity since the cross. Jesus did not physically return to earth, His coming was in Judgment on that city, like all the other historic judgments before it. All the useless speculation on who is the beast, who is the false prophet, the antichrist, the 10 nation confederacy, The seal and trumpet judgments, Gog and Magog, the red heifer, the limestones that are ready to rebuild another physical temple, are all in vain.
When is the last time you were in Judaea, ready to flee to the mountains?
When is the last time you were on your housetop?
When is the last time you were in your field?
When is the last time you observed a 7th day sabbath?
This was written to those people who lived in the first century! Not You.

Rev 11 speaks of more than an inner sanctuary and the two witnesses testify for 1260 days as I read.
The 1000 years starts at the 1st resurrection, the resurrection of the righteous, as I read in Rev 20.

I don't follow theologians. I state what I read in the NT.

No ...you follow the popular ideas thrown out there, or you could answer those 4 questions. The book of Revelation does not describe apache helicopters, and modern day armies who fight with bow and arrows.

The bowl judgments are the judgments that plunge the beast's kingdom into darkness and that beast is captured and defeated by a coming of the Lord NOT the armies of man.
Rev 16
They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

These are descriptions of what happened then with Jesus watching from heaven. rev.6:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

This the description of the fall of Jerusalem

15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

Jesus came in judgment upon the former holy city, there is a new Holy City, the heavenly Jerusalem

 

[Randy]

Nero did that when the temple was still standing. He committed the abomination that makes desolate;
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
All these things took place by 70ad. There was a temple, a holy place standing, the Jews saw it and many did flee to Pella. You have no temple, you have no Jews alive who crucified Jesus, to see Him who they pierced.
Furthermore they cannot recreate a "new holy place". There are no more animal sacrifices that have any validity since the cross. Jesus did not physically return to earth, His coming was in Judgment on that city, like all the other historic judgments before it. All the useless speculation on who is the beast, who is the false prophet, the antichrist, the 10 nation confederacy, The seal and trumpet judgments, Gog and Magog, the red heifer, the limestones that are ready to rebuild another physical temple, are all in vain.
When is the last time you were in Judaea, ready to flee to the mountains?
When is the last time you were on your housetop?
When is the last time you were in your field?
When is the last time you observed a 7th day sabbath?
This was written to those people who lived in the first century! Not You.

No ...you follow the popular ideas thrown out there, or you could answer those 4 questions. The book of Revelation does not describe apache helicopters, and modern day armies who fight with bow and arrows.

These are descriptions of what happened then with Jesus watching from heaven. rev.6:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

This the description of the fall of Jerusalem



Jesus came in judgment upon the former holy city, there is a new Holy City, the heavenly Jerusalem

The 1000 years begins at the 1st resurrection. - Future event
The mount of olives split in two to make a way of escape as stated in Zach 14 -future event
Future event
Rev 15
I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed
Rev 16
The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast,and its kingdom was plunged into darkness.
The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

The resurrection of the righteous -future event
Rev 20
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

 

[follower]

hmmmm..... ? Today ?

 

[Iconoclast]

hmmmm..... ? Today ?

Not sure what this means??? Today what?

 

[Consecrated Life]

I think things are on a slow steady upswing. The gospel is spreading worldwide.

Jesus says we are picking up speed moving towards the days that were like Noah.
The only thing "upswinging" eating, drinking,etc,etc,etc,.
The days of Noah is not where you want to be .

Mat 24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Iconoclast]

Jesus says we are picking up speed moving towards the days that were like Noah.
The only thing "upswinging" eating, drinking,etc,etc,etc,.
The days of Noah is not where you want to be .

Mat 24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Hello CL, This passage indicates that life will continue as normal...eating, drinking, marrying, until the flood came and took them all away...The gospel is going worldwide, until the judgment comes.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hello CL, This passage indicates that life will continue as normal...eating, drinking, marrying, until the flood came and took them all away...The gospel is going worldwide, until the judgment comes.

Iconoclast ,
There is much more than that is going on, namely a growing level of spiritual evil which was understood to all Jesus was speaking to, and which caused God to regret He had ever created man.
This world is heading to same spiritual state of "only evil continually" that has not been seen since just prior to the flood.
This according to Jesus.

Gen 6:5-6
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast ,
There is much more than that is going on, namely a growing level of spiritual evil which was understood to all Jesus was speaking to, and which caused God to regret He had ever created man.
This world is heading to same spiritual state of "only evil continually" that has not been seen since just prior to the flood.
This according to Jesus.

Gen 6:5-6
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

I am with you on Gen.6..... but mankind has continued post flood.
Jesus has come as the Captain of our salvation, Heb2. His salvation is stronger the man's depravity

 

[Randy]

Iconoclast ,
There is much more than that is going on, namely a growing level of spiritual evil which was understood to all Jesus was speaking to, and which caused God to regret He had ever created man.
This world is heading to same spiritual state of "only evil continually" that has not been seen since just prior to the flood.
This according to Jesus.

Gen 6:5-6
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

At the time of the very end, that is the reign of the beast, (42 months), most of the world will be deceived into following and worshipping the beast. I believe the name of that angel means destroyer and that is the period of the great tribulation. The powerful delusion of lies that enter the world in those days is not only allowed by God but decreed by God as judgment on those who love to do evil and who refuse to believe and repent so as they will be condemned as Paul wrote in 2Thess 2. That beast and his false prophet who acts on his behalf will make war with the saints, (those who obey Gods commands and have the testimony of Jesus), and will be successful until the Lord returns suddenly to the astonishment of those who were deceived and pronounces judgment in favor of the saints and puts a end to tribulation and ushers in everlasting righteousness into a kingdom that has no end and can never be destroyed. Rev 11 will be a sign that cannot be mistaken. 1260 days as I read.

 

[Iconoclast]

From He shall have Dominion, pg 436-437;
The Postmillennial View To understand the significance of Ezekiel’s visionary temple, we must keep in mind the conceptual idea which the temple structure and services embody.

In essence the temple itself is a symbol: it symbolizes the covenantal relationship of God with his people.

The heart of the covenant appears in that most important promise: “I will be your God, you will beMy people.”

The temple is the special place where God dwells among his people (1Ki 6:12–13; Jer 7:4–7),

as he does in the tabernacle preceding it (Ex 29:42; 25:22; 30:36).

God’s glory is especially present in his sanctuary (1Ki 8:11; 2Ch 7:1–2),

even though no temple could contain his immense being (1Ki 8:27; Isa 66:1; Jer 23:24).

This idea clearly relates to Ezekiel’s temple vision in 48:35: “The name of the city from that day shall be: The Lord is There.