Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or Two Tribs?

[reba]

Jason no way do i think i have THEE answers. But i do know what shortly means and so do you.
The verses i posted speak to the usage of the word shortly as used in Scripture. I am not building a theology on them.
Gods Word says what is says. When i see God's Word say something different then i have been taught or different than what i understand it is not His Word that must change but mine.

 

[Sam21]

Jason no way do i think i have THEE answers. But i do know what shortly means and so do you.
The verses i posted speak to the usage of the word shortly as used in Scripture. I am not building a theology on them.
Gods Word says what is says. When i see God's Word say something different then i have been taught or different than what i understand it is not His Word that must change but mine.

I agree totally that "shortly" in the book of Revelation means shortly, however THE THINGS that were to happen shortly have not yet happened!!! Revelation contains many symbols in order to explain things,however none of the EVENTS ARE SYMBOLIC,and those events have absolutely not happened,if they had happened they would be recorded in secular and religious history and we today would not be getting saved in the same way the first century church did. The strength of preterism is the literal statements of "shortly", the incredible weakness of preterism is the ridiculous attempt to convince sane people that all the events in Rev have occured in the first century. The book of Rev describes incredible actual physical events that have never happened to the human race before...to PRETEND that these have occured is much worse then the fellow who just predicted the false return of Christ,at least that man admitted that Jesus was to return and be visible for all to see. Sorry folks,preterism is ANOTHER gospel,another Jesus, and another spirit...don't fall for it.

 

[reba]

Isn't great we can all have different ideas and beliefs on what Scripture says!

The first commandment God gave Is in Genesis.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Why would a person believe The Revelation of Christ when they choose to discount the very first commandment of God.

 

[Sam21]

Isn't great we can all have different ideas and beliefs on what Scripture says!

The first commandment God gave Is in Genesis.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Why would a person believe The Revelation of Christ when they choose to discount the very first commandment of God.

On the day Adam ate from the tree,did his body die? Did his spirit die? Did his relationship with God die? Since none of those things occured then how do YOU explain Gen2:17? By the way, do you actually believe that Rev past chapter 4 has already taken place?

 

[reba]

Sam why would want me to answer you dont even believe God.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Where o where does God say body ? He doesn't that is your interjection into Scripture.

Since none of those things occured then how do YOU explain Gen2:17?

You say they didn't occur God said thou shalt surly die Guess who i believe. I have a hard time grasping a man that will so blatantly challenge the Word of God.

 

[Stormcrow]

When i see God's Word say something different then i have been taught or different than what i understand it is not His Word that must change but mine.

Amen! This is precisely the attitude I came to four years ago, only I put it another way then: "follow the evidence wherever it leads." The evidence of Christ's imminent return to THAT GENERATION in judgment on them is so completely overwhelming, it should not even be debatable.

So if "shortly" means shortly, "soon" means soon, "near" means near, "quickly" means quickly, "last hour" and "last days" mean just what they all suggest is an imminent return of Christ to those alive in 70 AD, then people need to re-examine some of these other deeply-held beliefs.

No one ever solved a puzzle by focusing only on one or two pieces: every once in awhile you have to look at the other pieces and the "big picture" on the box.

Likewise, no one will ever understand this by focusing on only one or two verses to the exclusion of all the others. Every once in awhile you have to crack open the pages of the Bible that have absolutely none of your fingerprints on them, and start digging.

Being saved doesn't mean you stop being a disciple, and implicit in the whole idea of discipleship is this thing called "study."

For what it's worth.

 

[warhorse]

To everyone one of these men, among others, and every reader of the inspired words God gave them, "shortly" and "soon" meant "imminent", NOT 2,000 years in the future.

To deny this is just absurd.

again most of these are statements from men to men and the first one looks impossable to place or prove fullfillment but greatly resembles 70 ad

 

[Sam21]

Sam why would want me to answer you dont even believe God.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Where o where does God say body ? He doesn't that is your interjection into Scripture.



You say they didn't occur God said thou shalt surly die Guess who i believe. I have a hard time grasping a man that will so blatantly challenge the Word of God.

I didn't say they didn't occur,THE BIBLE does not say it occured,did the bible say that Adam died on the day he ate from the tree...just answer the question please,does THE BIBLE say that Adam died on the day he ate from the tree,yes or no,can you just answer yes or no. The bible says that Adam lived another 900 years, if I agree with the bible and you insist on adding a death that is not in the story then you are challenging the word of God not me.

 

[Stormcrow]

I have a hard time grasping a man that will so blatantly challenge the Word of God.

Some deny it to defend it. George W. Bush once said, "We must abandon capitalism to save it."

I call it "sawing off the branch on which you're sitting."

People can't defend something by denying it.

People can't save something by abandoning it.

People can't assert Biblical authority while challenging it, and they can't sit on the branch they're trying to prune.

All of these things only lead to disaster.

 

[reba]

YES Sam Yes God said so. What is to discuss? You dare to argue with God.

PC has become such a part of our world folks read it into Scripture.

 

[Stormcrow]

again most of these are statements from men to men and the first one looks impossable to place or prove fullfillment but greatly resembles 70 ad

Who inspired their writings???

And the verse from Ezekiel? Prophesied only a couple of years before the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar sacked Jerusalem, destroyed its temple, and carried the people they didn't kill off into captivity.

Might pay to look some of this stuff up sometime.

 

[warhorse]

Who inspired their writings???

And the verse from Ezekiel? Prophesied only a couple of years before the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar sacked Jerusalem, destroyed its temple, and carried the people they didn't kill off into captivity.

Might pay to look some of this stuff up sometime.

God inspired the recording of there statements from men to men, not there statements themselves,(freewill). I am familliar with both events, but israel represented only the ten northern tribes at that time, and there destruction was not that simular to Eze 7.
So how do you fit a thousand years into ( shortly ) and call it complete in 70 ad, 20 years before revelation was even written.

 

[Stormcrow]

So how do you fit a thousand years into ( shortly ) and call it complete in 70 ad, 20 years before revelation was written.

Only one ambiguous quote from Iraenaeus some 150 years after the fact forms the basis for believing that Revelation was written in 96 AD.

All the other evidence - both in the book of Revelation itself - and in other passages of the NT point to a mid-to-late 60's writing.

Might pay to Google that, too.

By the way, that verse in your signature?

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2v18-19.

You do know Paul was writing his letters to the Galatians, Colossians, and in part, to the Corinthians because these churches were beginning to abandon the gospel he preached to them.

It was all part of that first century "falling away" thing Christ predicted.

 

[reba]

Storm, 2 what would Hal Lindsy say to your heresy!




Hope you read the silly sarcasm

 

[taromina2003]

Who inspired their writings???

And the verse from Ezekiel? Prophesied only a couple of years before the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar sacked Jerusalem, destroyed its temple, and carried the people they didn't kill off into captivity.

Might pay to look some of this stuff up sometime.

Stormcrow as a pre-trib believer does that mean you do not believe that there will be an anti-Christ? I am somewhat ignorant on this whole pretrib stuff so Ijust need some better understanding of it.

 

[reba]

Stormcrow as a pre-trib believer does that mean you do not believe that there will be an anti-Christ? I am somewhat ignorant on this whole pretrib stuff so Ijust need some better understanding of it.

I am not Storm here are all the Scriptures have to say about antichrist.


1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[Sam21]

YES Sam Yes God said so. What is to discuss? You dare to argue with God.

PC has become such a part of our world folks read it into Scripture.

Sorry I tried to get you to think out of the box, of course Adam died a "spiritual death"because that makes everyone feel good,it does not matter that "spiritual death"is not even in the book of Genesis,what matters is that we all "feel" like we have the answer of how Adam could die when he ate the fruit and yet kept on living. The funny thing is,if you ask people who believe this teaching what "spiritual death"is they could not give a definition,so much for deep thought.

 

[reba]

Sorry I tried to get you to think out of the box, of course Adam died a "spiritual death"because that makes everyone feel good,it does not matter that "spiritual death"is not even in the book of Genesis,what matters is that we all "feel" like we have the answer of how Adam could die when he ate the fruit and yet kept on living. The funny thing is,if you ask people who believe this teaching what "spiritual death"is they could not give a definition,so much for deep thought.

I did not say spiritual death. I quoted God

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

[Stormcrow]

Storm, 2 what would Hal Lindsy say to your heresy!




Hope you read the silly sarcasm

Got it!

 

[Stormcrow]

Stormcrow as a pre-trib believer does that mean you do not believe that there will be an anti-Christ?

To which "tribulation are you referring? The one in Matthew 24:9 or the one in Matthew 24:21? There are two mentioned in that chapter. The "tribulation of believers" in verse 9 is a sign of a greater tribulation that would befall Jerusalem.

The "tribulation of believers" continues to this day. The tribulation (desolation) of Jerusalem happened in 70 AD.

Therefore, if there is any rapture, as defined by traditional evangelicalism, it's definitely post-trib.

That was the point of my original two posts that started this thread.

As to the question of "Antichrist", we meet them everyday. They are everywhere and are motivated by a spirit of opposition to and hatred of the gospel. That was the point of John's epistles.

Hope this helps.