Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or Two Tribs?

[jasoncran]

Satan CAN be bound by a christian,however satan is NOT bound. Since I have been in this forum I have watched satan romp and stomp all over people claiming to be christian. What was the first act of satan against mankind? To seperate man from the truth of the word of God! I have read post after post of the most outlandish distortions of what God is saying through His word...and most of the people doing the distortions are claiming that satan is bound...ha,ha,heh, that is rich(really very poor).

i agree with your statement. i merely took hitches view since lehigh3 is a full preterist and even partial ones say that satan isnt destroyed. no that is why i stated this

satan is restrained but not totally imho

 

[Hitch]

i guess thats a no, he hasnt returned. so therefore you either dont know and must act like this, sadly

or that the book of revalation is just about 70 ad alone. and i take this to be correct given i prefer not to call you a full preterists since i ALREADY KNEW THE ANSWER. WHY did i ask you state this again, because it was apparent a confusion on my part on why you would agree that jesus comes again.

and to answer you he isnt on the earth and hasnt been since the ascencsion 40 days from the time of the cross.

acts 1:8 hasnt been fulfilled in like manner he hasnt come back.

Originally Posted by jasoncran
ok, give me the spatial grid coordinates in the current time space continium

. Ok give me the ones for Calvary, that action required his physical presence so since you brought up the spatial grid coordinates in the current time space continium. it should be easy for you to answer specifically.


Or add windbag to that list of yours

 

[warhorse]

i agree with your statement. i merely took hitches view since lehigh3 is a full preterist and even partial ones say that satan isnt destroyed. no that is why i stated this

Well i guess i disagree with all of those statements from both preterists and futerists alike. No satan is not bound, he is cast to the earth, but he has been restrained to some point by the word of God, not the church. Just as God had to grant permit to satan for the trials of Job, God has to permit the trbulations of the church. Once the times of the gentils is passed, and the falling away is complete, then we will see satan reveiled and destroyed.

 

[jasoncran]

Well i guess i disagree with all of those statements from both preterists and futerists alike. No satan is not bound, he is cast to the earth, but he has been restrained to some point by the word of God, not the church. Just as God had to grant permit to satan for the trials of Job, God has to permit the trbulations of the church. Once the times of the gentils is passed, and the falling away is complete, then we will see satan reveiled and destroyed.

i believe futurist say that satan is on the earth. i was listening to a pre-tribber this morning and he described when in the bible satan was cast down to the earth(pre adamic fall ) . he was teaching mainly on satan and his limited powers and how we can defeat him. its up to us to put on the whole armor. God made it for us. we have to don it.
i'm sure you agree.for the record i dont buy any trib period but i do believe in a premillenial position and pre wrath(judgment) of the church.

 

[warhorse]

i believe futurist say that satan is on the earth. i was listening to a pre-tribber this morning and he described when in the bible satan was cast down to the earth(pre adamic fall ) . he was teaching mainly on satan and his limited powers and how we can defeat him. its up to us to put on the whole armor. God made it for us. we have to don it.
i'm sure you agree.for the record i dont buy any trib period but i do believe in a premillenial position and pre wrath(judgment) of the church.

I agree with the pre-millinial position there is just to many direct scriptures supporting it to spiritualize it away the way they do. Pre-wrath is essentially correct depending which varient it is. Many of them are inside a dispy framework and then have the same failings as pre and mi-trib demanding two returns one for the church (rapture), and one for those saved in the tribulation (mathew 24). Outside the dispy framework though pre-wrath is correct, and the same as a non dispy post trib.

 

[Lehigh3]

I agree with the pre-millinial position there is just to many direct scriptures supporting it to spiritualize it away the way they do. Pre-wrath is essentially correct depending which varient it is. Many of them are inside a dispy framework and then have the same failings as pre and mi-trib demanding two returns one for the church (rapture), and one for those saved in the tribulation (mathew 24). Outside the dispy framework though pre-wrath is correct, and the same as a non dispy post trib.

Well, that contradicts what the Bible says about Revelation (19:10b)
For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.â€

What is literal is what He told the apostles about WHEN & what signs to look for in His Olivet discourse. But it seems the eschatological orthodox doctrine doesn't believe Him , nor want to admit they don't believe He kept his word.
To perpetuate mens doctrines, I'm sure.

 

[warhorse]

Well, that contradicts what the Bible says about Revelation (19:10b)
For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.â€

What is literal is what He told the apostles about WHEN & what signs to look for in His Olivet discourse. But it seems the eschatological orthodox doctrine doesn't believe Him , nor want to admit they don't believe He kept his word.
To perpetuate mens doctrines, I'm sure.

Jesus told them in his olivet discorse that no man knew but the father when his return would be

Mathew 24 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
(summer represents the harvest)
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
(the Generation following the harvest)
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[Lehigh3]

Jesus told them in his olivet discorse that no man knew but the father when his return would be

Mathew 24 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
(summer represents the harvest)
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
(the Generation following the harvest)
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Hmm. What does the 1st verse of Revelation say? Rev.1:1-2 NKJV,

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.

I'm pretty sure "God" is the "Father" in that verse. Did you miss it previously?

Only God the Father knew..... I rest my case (in logic)

 

[freeway]

Satan CAN be bound by a christian,however satan is NOT bound. Since I have been in this forum I have watched satan romp and stomp all over people claiming to be christian. What was the first act of satan against mankind? To seperate man from the truth of the word of God! I have read post after post of the most outlandish distortions of what God is saying through His word...and most of the people doing the distortions are claiming that satan is bound...ha,ha,heh, that is rich(really very poor).

I agree with this post!
I too have seen Satan hand in many post on this forum.. But I still come back. True a christian can bound Satan, but only by the power of the Holy Spirit. Yes Satan is still on the loose, trying to destroy all that is Holy. I still believe in a future 7 year tribulaion. God is going to judge (squeeze) a unbelieving world. Life during the tribulatiion is going to be anything but normal " as the days of Noah" just look at the list of thing that will come upon the world. To say the Jesus came back in 70 AD and set up his kingdom is just so wrong.. If he did, ( which he didn't) then the battle fought here since then is going the wrong way. When Jesus comes back at the end of Jacob's trouble every eye will see him. I tell you we woun't have to debate that coming... Satan, will be bound and we will see just how a kingdom should be run... Come quickly Lord Jesus...

 

[freeway]

Hmm. What does the 1st verse of Revelation say? Rev.1:1-2 NKJV,

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.

I'm pretty sure "God" is the "Father" in that verse. Did you miss it previously?

Only God the Father knew..... I rest my case (in logic)

Yes but you forget that Jesus at this time is in Heaven seated at the right hand of the Father, You also assume that the book of revelation was written before 70 AD. Which that can be debated. The 7 church which these letter where sent to, also represent 7 church period in time reaching even to today. Do you believe God is done with his people Israel and that the time of the gentiles have been fulfilled?

 

[Lehigh3]

Where is satan? In the Lake of Fire. Oh no wonder why I have not seen him lately!

But Jesus still helps us with sin & temptation- when we are drawn away by our own lusts - He provides a way of escape. He knows what it was like to be "tempted" So, likewise, He helps us in our own weaknesses.

Satan is not bound, nor loosed- but is being tormented every time he raises his ugly head.

Lake of Fire prepared for him from the beginning. "It is done!" He no longer roams like a roaring lion. That age was over & there is only evil & sin (but no devil or demons) Demons of the mind is mental illness.

 

[jasoncran]

Where is satan? In the Lake of Fire. Oh no wonder why I have not seen him lately!

But Jesus still helps us with sin & temptation- when we are drawn away by our own lusts - He provides a way of escape. He knows what it was like to be "tempted" So, likewise, He helps us in our own weaknesses.

Satan is not bound, nor loosed- but is being tormented every time he raises his ugly head.

Lake of Fire prepared for him from the beginning. "It is done!" He no longer roams like a roaring lion. That age was over & there is only evil & sin (but no devil or demons) Demons of the mind is mental illness.

then all sinners should be there too. uh, no alistiar crowley worshipped satan and aslo did work some demonic things if i hear correctly. what of these Ghost sightings? demon possesions? i have seen and rebuked several times since my conversion. its rare but it does happen.

 

[Sam21]

I agree with the pre-millinial position there is just to many direct scriptures supporting it to spiritualize it away the way they do. Pre-wrath is essentially correct depending which varient it is. Many of them are inside a dispy framework and then have the same failings as pre and mi-trib demanding two returns one for the church (rapture), and one for those saved in the tribulation (mathew 24). Outside the dispy framework though pre-wrath is correct, and the same as a non dispy post trib.

I basicly agree with this post.

 

[Sam21]

Where is satan? In the Lake of Fire. Oh no wonder why I have not seen him lately!

But Jesus still helps us with sin & temptation- when we are drawn away by our own lusts - He provides a way of escape. He knows what it was like to be "tempted" So, likewise, He helps us in our own weaknesses.

Satan is not bound, nor loosed- but is being tormented every time he raises his ugly head.

Lake of Fire prepared for him from the beginning. "It is done!" He no longer roams like a roaring lion. That age was over & there is only evil & sin (but no devil or demons) Demons of the mind is mental illness.

Every Spirit indwelt believer will be under personal attack from a personal devil,if satan is not bothering you in any way you need to take another look at why you believe you are a christian.

 

[Lehigh3]

then all sinners should be there too. uh, no alistiar crowley worshipped satan and aslo did work some demonic things if i hear correctly. what of these Ghost sightings? demon possesions? i have seen and rebuked several times since my conversion. its rare but it does happen.

By "all sinners" I take it you mean sinners whose sins are not covered by the blood of Christ? As in "the heathen?" Because we are all sinners. Christians are just not slaves to sin as they were when they were unregenerated.
Anyone can worship "satan" They can worship Buddha too. Doesn't mean these idols are real. Satan's influence has always been what is evil. So they are worshipping an evil concept. Well, it's sure not to get God's blessing!
Ghosts? I would have encountered them myself if they were true. I have only encountered God's glory. Demon possession? We don't know enough about the mind to say it is not something internally wrong going on with that person's psyche & soul & spiritual life - to justify an outside entity of spiritual demons.

I came to Christ with many demons. I was not covered by the blood of Christ in my former life either. But, it was a spiritual sickness within- & was rebuked out- for whatever it was- and exorcised. Never to appear again. Christ destroyed the works of the "devil" & gave good grace to this person here. I believe it.

 

[jasoncran]

By "all sinners" I take it you mean sinners whose sins are not covered by the blood of Christ? As in "the heathen?" Because we are all sinners. Christians are just not slaves to sin as they were when they were unregenerated.
Anyone can worship "satan" They can worship Buddha too. Doesn't mean these idols are real. Satan's influence has always been what is evil. So they are worshipping an evil concept. Well, it's sure not to get God's blessing!
Ghosts? I would have encountered them myself if they were true. I have only encountered God's glory. Demon possession? We don't know enough about the mind to say it is not something internally wrong going on with that person's psyche & soul & spiritual life - to justify an outside entity of spiritual demons.

I came to Christ with many demons. I was not covered by the blood of Christ in my former life either. But, it was a spiritual sickness within- & was rebuked out- for whatever it was- and exorcised. Never to appear again. Christ destroyed the works of the "devil" & gave good grace to this person here. I believe it.

no tis far more then that. ever heard of ouija boards that dont burn? i have seen that personally. or how about that large psychic group that lives in daytona

Cassadaga, Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and that is because even now i am still aware of those things. i used to be into some occultic things.

 

[reba]

totopic

 

[warhorse]

Hmm. What does the 1st verse of Revelation say? Rev.1:1-2 NKJV,

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.

I'm pretty sure "God" is the "Father" in that verse. Did you miss it previously?

Only God the Father knew..... I rest my case (in logic)

And the events of revelation take over a thousand years to complete, so he could not possably be insinuating that those events are completed shortly, according to a mans timing, when a mans life is but a vapor.
More likely he is declaring that the events of revelation will start shortly according to his perception of time.

psalms 90v4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

 

[Hitch]

And the events of revelation take over a thousand years to complete, so he could not possably be insinuating that those events are completed shortly, according to a mans timing, when a mans life is but a vapor.
More likely he is declaring that the events of revelation will start shortly according to his perception of time.

psalms 90v4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

I can see Jesus telling John all this,,with his fingers crossed..


The time frame was included and directed at the addressees no matter how that affects your interpretation.

 

[Stormcrow]

To say the Jesus came back in 70 AD and set up his kingdom is just so wrong...

Who says He came back in 70 AD to set up His kingdom???

He set up His kingdom when He came to earth!!!

{28} "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Matthew 12:28 (NASB)

He reigns at the right hand of the Father but WE are in His kingdom! Right now!!! Ever hear the phrase "Kingdom Kids?" THAT'S US RIGHT NOW!

{19} So then you [Gentiles] are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints [faithful Jews], and are of God's household, {20} having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, {21} in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, {22} in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22 (NASB)

When Jesus comes back at the end of Jacob's trouble every eye will see him.

You've deliberately misquoted this verse again. Now, for at least the third time, I'll cite the salient passages AGAIN:

{7} Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen! Revelation 1:7 (YLT)

{30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the land lament, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30 (Darby)

{10} And I have poured on the house of David, And on the inhabitant of Jerusalem, A spirit of grace and supplications, And they have looked unto Me whom they pierced, And they have mourned over it, Like a mourning over the only one, And they have been in bitterness for it, Like a bitterness over the first-born. {11} In that day, great is the mourning of Jerusalem, As the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon, Zechariah 12:10-11 (YLT)

All of these verses relate to Christ's coming in judgement on THE LAND! THE LAND OF WHAT???

The land God gave to Abraham! The land of Israel!!!

When taken in the context of all the other comments in the NT of the imminence of His return, these passages can only refer to one time: the time when THE LAND was desolated by the Romans in 70 AD!!!

Posts from Satan?

Those of us who "work for the devil" challenge you to explain this stuff any better than we do without calling God a liar!

P.S. You do know what "the time of Jacob's trouble" refers to, don't you???

Jeremiah was a prophet to the captives in Babylon during their captivity after the destruction of their temple and Jerusalem in 586 BC. In Jeremiah 30, he is recounting their troubles only to encourage them that God would return them to their land:

{4} Now these are the words which the LORD spoke concerning Israel and concerning Judah: Jeremiah 30:4 (NASB)

{5} "For thus says the LORD, 'I have heard a sound of terror, Of dread, and there is no peace. {6} 'Ask now, and see If a male can give birth. Why do I see every man With his hands on his loins, as a woman in childbirth? And why have all faces turned pale? {7} 'Alas! for that day is great, There is none like it; And it is the time of Jacob's distress, But he will be saved from it. Jeremiah 30:5-7 (NASB)

{18} "Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will restore the fortunes of the tents of Jacob And have compassion on his dwelling places; And the city will be rebuilt on its ruin, And the palace will stand on its rightful place. Jeremiah 30:18 (NASB)

The palace in this context is the Temple: the second and last one.

"Jacob's trouble" was fulfilled more than 2,500 years ago.