Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or Two Tribs?

[warhorse]

I can see Jesus telling John all this,,with his fingers crossed..


The time frame was included and directed at the addressees no matter how that affects your interpretation.

Sorry but prophacy has no requirement to fullfill mans feeble interpritations of it. Just because pretribbers expect a pre-tribulational return doesnt mean God is oblidged to fullfill it. And just because preterist interpret shortly to be by a mans definition of time, does not mean he had to act in such a heated rush. It is Gods word, Gods world, and Gods Plain.

 

[Stormcrow]

And just because preterist interpret shortly to be by a mans definition of time, does not mean he had to act in such a heated rush. It is Gods word, Gods world, and Gods Plain.

So are you, like Sam21, suggesting God lied to the early church???

"Shortly" to us didn't really mean "shortly" to them; that Christ just "fibbed" about that whole coming "soon" and "quickly" thing???

I used to be like you: believing that Christ would return to rapture His church in my lifetime. The difference between us is that I used to ignore certain parts of the Bible that didn't fit this view. I never would've dreamed of suggesting that Christ deceived His followers in order to make all the passages that refer to His return in their lifetime fit this view.

Until you decide to start taking Christ at His word, you're always either going to end up ignoring vast tracts of the Bible, or calling God a liar.

How about choosing - instead - to adjust your own thinking regarding these things?

 

[Sam21]

I can see Jesus telling John all this,,with his fingers crossed..


The time frame was included and directed at the addressees no matter how that affects your interpretation.

Yes, but none of the events past chapter 4 in Rev have occured no matter how that affects your interpretation. You are swatting at a nat and swallowing a camel,you are all literal about the "shortlys" but reject literal about all the events described,can you not see the hypocrisy of your approach to the bible in this area? Did God give you special permission to declare part of His word literal and the rest just symbols? If "shortly" is literal then all the things described that must occur would also have to be literal. You are using a double standard to get what you want out of the bible,where is God in all of that?

 

[Sam21]

So are you, like Sam21, suggesting God lied to the early church???

"Shortly" to us didn't really mean "shortly" to them; that Christ just "fibbed" about that whole coming "soon" and "quickly" thing???

I used to be like you: believing that Christ would return to rapture His church in my lifetime. The difference between us is that I used to ignore certain parts of the Bible that didn't fit this view. I never would've dreamed of suggesting that Christ deceived His followers in order to make all the passages that refer to His return in their lifetime fit this view.

Until you decide to start taking Christ at His word, you're always either going to end up ignoring vast tracts of the Bible, or calling God a liar.

How about choosing - instead - to adjust your own thinking regarding these things?

I would not call God a liar,however anyone who would have such a deceived mind as to attempt to claim that Christ has returned and the events in Rev are past, would most definitely be a liar. Paul said that when Christ returned we would be gathered to Him in the sky and so would forever be with the Lord. Claiming shortly has to mean shortly(small potatoes), claiming Christ returned and gathered the church and the new age begin(the whole potatoe crop!!!). Your position is absurd!

 

[reba]

Yes, but none of the events past chapter 4 in Rev have occured no matter how that affects your interpretation. You are swatting at a nat and swallowing a camel,you are all literal about the "shortlys" but reject literal about all the events described,can you not see the hypocrisy of your approach to the bible in this area? Did God give you special permission to declare part of His word literal and the rest just symbols? If "shortly" is literal then all the things described that must occur would also have to be literal. You are using a double standard to get what you want out of the bible,where is God in all of that?

Seems we all pick parts to believe as literal or or not.

 

[Lehigh3]

Yes, but none of the events past chapter 4 in Rev have occured no matter how that affects your interpretation. You are swatting at a nat and swallowing a camel,you are all literal about the "shortlys" but reject literal about all the events described,can you not see the hypocrisy of your approach to the bible in this area? Did God give you special permission to declare part of His word literal and the rest just symbols? If "shortly" is literal then all the things described that must occur would also have to be literal. You are using a double standard to get what you want out of the bible,where is God in all of that?

No. God knows how to relate time to man.
Rev.22 repeats what must shortly take place. The key to understanding Revelation is knowing what to take literally. The time statements are literal. God's wrath & the events were literal. The apocalyptic language used to describe God's judgments are figurative.

Daniel, a minor prophet, was told that the end of the days was many days in the future (Dan.10) When the power of the holy people & the holy city would be shattered.
John was told not to seal up the words of the book bc the time was near.

Preterism is Biblically correct. And you cannot deny the Scriptures nor history!

Have you yet seen "the revelation of Jesus Christ" in the Scriptures?

If not, study preterist material & learn the truth about eschatology!

Oh yes, perhaps you should read the Text in the Greek.

When Paul said to Timothy to be diligent to come to me "quickly" (2Tim 4:9) Did he mean millenniums later? Or are we at least educated enough to understand what he meant in terms of time!?

 

[warhorse]

So are you, like Sam21, suggesting God lied to the early church???

"Shortly" to us didn't really mean "shortly" to them; that Christ just "fibbed" about that whole coming "soon" and "quickly" thing???

I used to be like you: believing that Christ would return to rapture His church in my lifetime. The difference between us is that I used to ignore certain parts of the Bible that didn't fit this view. I never would've dreamed of suggesting that Christ deceived His followers in order to make all the passages that refer to His return in their lifetime fit this view.

Until you decide to start taking Christ at His word, you're always either going to end up ignoring vast tracts of the Bible, or calling God a liar.

How about choosing - instead - to adjust your own thinking regarding these things?

Wrong post

 

[warhorse]

Yes, but none of the events past chapter 4 in Rev have occured no matter how that affects your interpretation. You are swatting at a nat and swallowing a camel,you are all literal about the "shortlys" but reject literal about all the events described,can you not see the hypocrisy of your approach to the bible in this area? Did God give you special permission to declare part of His word literal and the rest just symbols? If "shortly" is literal then all the things described that must occur would also have to be literal. You are using a double standard to get what you want out of the bible,where is God in all of that?

Agreed, well except for that rev 4 part. It takes some real mental acrobatics to see rev 4v1 as a rapture event.

 

[jasoncran]

sheesh, i would rather argue over science then this stuff. at least with science its common sense. well if one has the proper world view.

will someone tell me when satan was realised to tempt men to attack jerusalem? or when the battle for jerusalem was over and the national isreal says this? barchuba beshem adonai.

 

[reba]

Gen 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

Act 25:4 But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.

1Co 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.

 

[warhorse]

No. God knows how to relate time to man.
Rev.22 repeats what must shortly take place. The key to understanding Revelation is knowing what to take literally. The time statements are literal. God's wrath & the events were literal. The apocalyptic language used to describe God's judgments are figurative.

Daniel, a minor prophet, was told that the end of the days was many days in the future (Dan.10) When the power of the holy people & the holy city would be shattered.
John was told not to seal up the words of the book bc the time was near.

Preterism is Biblically correct. And you cannot deny the Scriptures nor history!

Have you yet seen "the revelation of Jesus Christ" in the Scriptures?

If not, study preterist material & learn the truth about eschatology!

Oh yes, perhaps you should read the Text in the Greek.

When Paul said to Timothy to be diligent to come to me "quickly" (2Tim 4:9) Did he mean millenniums later? Or are we at least educated enough to understand what he meant in terms of time!?

How can you possably say that when the only part of Rev preterists take for literal is (shortly). And Comparing Pauls timing to Gods timing is apples and oranges.

 

[jasoncran]

Gen 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

Act 25:4 But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.

1Co 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.

10 years ago approx, i fasted for deliverance from a sin. God told me soon i will do it. soon is relative to us and God knows when he will do his will as in judgement.

 

[warhorse]

Gen 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

Act 25:4 But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.

1Co 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.

All three of these referances were sourced from men to men, not from God to men as in the way (shortly) was used in revelation1v1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

 

[reba]

All three of these referances were sourced from men to men, not from God to men as in the way (shortly) was used in revelation1v1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

Gen 41:16 And Joseph answered Pharaoh, saying, It is not in me: God shall give Pharaoh an answer of peace.

Not all three, but all three go to the use of the word shortly in God's Word

 

[reba]

Jer 27:16 Also I spake to the priests and to all this people, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Hearken not to the words of your prophets that prophesy unto you, saying, Behold, the vessels of the LORD'S house shall now shortly be brought again from Babylon: for they prophesy a lie unto you.

 

[jasoncran]

i take that somehow God has judge men and that sinners are in the kingdom of God in heaven and in the new earth and new age.

i have posted this thrice and only warhorse properly addresses this. shortly cant mean shortly in ones lifetime of the reader when that whole book includes the final judgment of all man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stormcrow]

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

So Christ tells John one thing but means something completely different?

So Christ is a deceiver???

Gee, with a God like that, who needs Satan? 2

 

[Stormcrow]

shortly cant mean shortly in ones lifetime of the reader when that whole book includes the final judgment of all man

Then you have a problem with your idea of that which comprises God's judgement.

And, for a "moderator", your posts have been alarmingly immoderate.

 

[Stormcrow]

{8} ~'Now I will shortly pour out My wrath on you and spend My anger against you; judge you according to your ways and bring on you all your abominations. Ezekiel 7:8 (NASB)

{4} Festus then answered that Paul was being kept in custody at Caesarea and that he himself was about to leave shortly. Acts 25:4 (NASB)

{14} but I hope to see you shortly, and we will speak face to face. 3 John 1:14 (NASB)

{11} Soon afterwards He went to a city called Nain; and His disciples were going along with Him, accompanied by a large crowd. Luke 7:11 (NASB)

{19} But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I shall find out, not the words of those who are arrogant but their power. 1 Corinthians 4:19 (NASB)

{9} Make every effort to come to me soon; 2 Timothy 4:9 (NASB)

To everyone one of these men, among others, and every reader of the inspired words God gave them, "shortly" and "soon" meant "imminent", NOT 2,000 years in the future.

To deny this is just absurd.

 

[jasoncran]

REVALATION 20
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

REVALATION 22

11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


NOW THEN I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINES. I AM TALKING COMMON SENSE. JESUS said quickly, if judgment of the jews was quick then how can this not be quick its all of the dead on the earth are judged? so only the jews were judged and damned to hell?