pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

[Watchmen for Christ]

The First resurrection has already begun when Christ was on earth:

Matt 27
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


Christians don't go into a grave as those with no Hope for we believe HE rose and so we partake also of His 1st resurrection which is NOT on pause because HE ascended:

1 Corinthians 15:40-45King James Version (KJV)

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.



Acts 7:55-60

King James Version (KJV)

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.



1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

King James Version (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.




14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


paul quotes matt 24:30-31:

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


We meet them in the #g109AER=breath=#g4151spiritual body

paul NEVER says the Lord Jesus return is before the tribulation


Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


1 Thessalonians 3:12-13

King James Version (KJV)

12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.


Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Revelation 19:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.



why does timing matter:



Matthew 13:27-30

King James Version (KJV)

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,

Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.




Matthew 13:36-43

King James Version (KJV)

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Matthew 24:4-5

King James Version (KJV)

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.



Mark 13:5-6

5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.



Luke 21:8 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.





Matthew 24:21-31


21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.25 Behold, I have told you before.



26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.






29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.




*Jesus Christ says the tares are gathered first, not the church 1st
*Jesus Christ teaches false Christs come prior to His coming and our gathering to Him AFTER the tribulation , (the Lord's word)

*paul also warns in II thess 2 the Lord's day shall not come except the falling away first and satan revealed to be worshiped

*paul repeats the Lord is him who's coming is AFTER the working of satan with all power signs and lying wonders




what's taught as a "pre trib" rapture to Jesus Christ is actually the coming of false Christs claiming to be Jesus leading to satan on the mount claiming to be God.

IF one falls for their lies they are defiling their wedding garments by allowing satan to enter them the temple as if God defiling the temple of God.


1 Corinthians 3:16-18


16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.



Revelation 3:4-6


4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



sadly the false Christs message will be I'm Christ and many will assume it's a
pre trib rapture because of false teaching that adds pre trib to paul's words.

:yes

 

[jasoncran]

I prefer pre wrath or pre judgement but I am neither a pre-trib, post trib or mid trib. I believe that we have had Christians die for the faith since the time of Christ. therefore we have been in the general trib for thousands of years.

 

[gr8grace]

The First resurrection has already begun when Christ was on earth:

Matt 27
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


Christians don't go into a grave as those with no Hope for we believe HE rose and so we partake also of His 1st resurrection which is NOT on pause because HE ascended:

1 Corinthians 15:40-45King James Version (KJV)

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.



Acts 7:55-60

King James Version (KJV)

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.



1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

King James Version (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.




14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


paul quotes matt 24:30-31:

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


We meet them in the #g109AER=breath=#g4151spiritual body

paul NEVER says the Lord Jesus return is before the tribulation


Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


1 Thessalonians 3:12-13

King James Version (KJV)

12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.


Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Revelation 19:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.



why does timing matter:



Matthew 13:27-30

King James Version (KJV)

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,

Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.




Matthew 13:36-43

King James Version (KJV)

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Matthew 24:4-5

King James Version (KJV)

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.



Mark 13:5-6

5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.



Luke 21:8 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.





Matthew 24:21-31


21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.25 Behold, I have told you before.



26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.






29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.




*Jesus Christ says the tares are gathered first, not the church 1st
*Jesus Christ teaches false Christs come prior to His coming and our gathering to Him AFTER the tribulation , (the Lord's word)

*paul also warns in II thess 2 the Lord's day shall not come except the falling away first and satan revealed to be worshiped

*paul repeats the Lord is him who's coming is AFTER the working of satan with all power signs and lying wonders




what's taught as a "pre trib" rapture to Jesus Christ is actually the coming of false Christs claiming to be Jesus leading to satan on the mount claiming to be God.

IF one falls for their lies they are defiling their wedding garments by allowing satan to enter them the temple as if God defiling the temple of God.


1 Corinthians 3:16-18


16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.



Revelation 3:4-6


4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



sadly the false Christs message will be I'm Christ and many will assume it's a
pre trib rapture because of false teaching that adds pre trib to paul's words.

:yes

A pre trib believer will not be deceived. A false Christ does not have time to try to convince us. We are Just GONE, no words, no time, nothing at all. Just GONE. If someone tries to convince us, we will instantly deny it.

Before the rapture, a mid trib, post trib believer can be deceived. They have a chance at doing Tribulation things and making tribulation choices thinking they are in the tribulation when we are not actually in the tribulation. A false Christ has a chance at deceiving them, because they think they are in the tribulation and some could be convinced that Christ has returned. A pre trib believer wont fall for it, we Know we are just GONE.

 

[Narwhalist]

Truly, until we stop with these labels - pretrib, postrib, midtrib, 3/4trib, no-trib, whatever-trib - we are not going to understand what the Bible is really saying. You will continue to read under the umbrella of whatever "trib" you believe in, instead of investigating what Revelations is trying to tell us.
We've already messed up Christ's idea for a one true church and are the result of countless of denominations, each claiming they are the true church. We're just never going to learn this way. :chokedup

 

[Randy]

Before the rapture, a mid trib, post trib believer can be deceived. They have a chance at doing Tribulation things and making tribulation choices thinking they are in the tribulation when we are not actually in the tribulation. A false Christ has a chance at deceiving them, because they think they are in the tribulation and some could be convinced that Christ has returned. A pre trib believer wont fall for it, we Know we are just GONE.

http://www.reverendfun.com/?date=20000914

Randy

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

[QUOTE gr8grace
A pre trib believer will not be deceived. A false Christ does not have time to try to convince us. We are Just GONE, no words, no time, nothing at all. Just GONE. If someone tries to convince us, we will instantly deny it.

Before the rapture, a mid trib, post trib believer can be deceived. They have a chance at doing Tribulation things and making tribulation choices thinking they are in the tribulation when we are not actually in the tribulation. A false Christ has a chance at deceiving them, because they think they are in the tribulation and some could be convinced that Christ has returned. A pre trib believer wont fall for it, we Know we are just GONE.[/QUOTE]

:naughty The pre trib rapture IS the coming of false Christs


Jesus Christ warns believers NOT to be deceived, IF believers couldn't be deceived HE wouldn't have warned us not to be.

Jesus Christ says the tares will be gathered first NOT the church

paul NEVER says Jesus Christ coming is pre trib, men lie and claim he does

Jesus Christ says His coming is after the tribulation of false Christs , it's the coming of false Christs pre/mid tribbers are looking for as if Jesus.

Matthew 24:4-5


4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.



Mark 13:5-6

5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Luke 21:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.


those who think they are going to just be gone are deceiving themselves . instead of believing Jesus Christ who says HIS COMING is after the tribulation they'd rather believe He's coming early based on verse_______ AIR! as not one verse in scripture says Jesus is coming before the trib.


Matthew 24:21-31

Here's what pre tribbers will be gone to:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.25 Behold, I have told you before.26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


Here's what post tribbers wait for:



29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


pre trib rapture=coming of false Christs claiming to be Jesus, tares (1st taken)will just be purged by following them to satan on the mount them instead of waiting for Jesus Christ they follow a false Christ

post trib gathering= the gathering of wheat who took heed and refused to be taken 1st by BELIEVING Jesus Christ!

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Truly, until we stop with these labels - pretrib, postrib, midtrib, 3/4trib, no-trib, whatever-trib - we are not going to understand what the Bible is really saying. You will continue to read under the umbrella of whatever "trib" you believe in, instead of investigating what Revelations is trying to tell us.
We've already messed up Christ's idea for a one true church and are the result of countless of denominations, each claiming they are the true church. We're just never going to learn this way. :chokedup

actually unless one realizes Jesus Christ said He doesn't bring peace but a sword that splits families and pay attention that Jesus warns false Christs are coming claiming to be Him prior to His coming parousia then those folks are headed for the gathering of tares NOT the gathering of wheat.:yes
Matthew 24:29-31


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Before the rapture, a mid trib, post trib believer can be deceived. They have a chance at doing Tribulation things and making tribulation choices thinking they are in the tribulation when we are not actually in the tribulation. A false Christ has a chance at deceiving them, because they think they are in the tribulation and some could be convinced that Christ has returned. A pre trib believer wont fall for it, we Know we are just GONE.

http://www.reverendfun.com/?date=20000914

Randy

good one!

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

[video=youtube;OIlck_Jdwxc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIlck_Jdwxc[/video]

 

[n2thelight]

To Stand or be Raptured

I don’t write this message so I can say, “I’m right and you are wrongâ€. I write this out of love for my brothers in sisters in Christ. I do not want to see them disappointed or caught off guard as we approach the times that Christ forewarned us of.

You see God has a purpose and a plan for those of us who call ourselves Christians. And it isn’t to be daily hoping and praying for a quick escape from this earth before the Tribulation begins. We are to remain in the field working. Our Father wants to use us to witness against the False Messiah when he appears and to help wake up those who are under his strong delusion.


Are you ready to make a stand against the Forces of Evil?


Instead of making a stand many Christian’s believe that “at any moment†they will suddenly vanish from the earth and the airplanes, cars, and trains that were driven by them will crash and great panic and chaos will proceed.
This is silly.

Not only is it silly, but it is not Biblical. In fact, to believe in the “rapture theory†is to doubt almost every promise that God has made. And it also shows a lack of courage, patience, and faith (Revelation 13:10). Worse yet, it could lead one to worship the False Messiah.

It could lead them to do so because Satan will be the first supernatural being to appear on this earth claiming to be the Christ and those expecting “the rapture†will think that Jesus has come to “rapture†them away! This is very serious beloved.

God’s plan has never included an escape clause.
Let us read the words of Jesus praying to the Father asking Him to protect us here on earth:

I have given them Thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep the from the evil (one). –John 17:14-15
​

Notice that Jesus asks the Father not to take us out of the world (rapture) but rather prays that He protect us from the evil one while we are on earth. You know, this verse alone debunks the rapture theory.
Moreover, during the time of our testimony against the antichrist God will protect us like a mother eagle protects her young, as promised in Revelation 12:13-17. Even though we have that protection, as a true Christian we must be willing to make a stand regardless of the price. As it is written:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. –Matthew 10:28-31
​

Truly you are of more value than many sparrows if you study the word of God to understand His plan. You have nothing to fear and nothing to run from. Could you imagine if David ran away from the Giant Goliath, if Moses feared the wrath of Pharaoh, or if Joshua was afraid to lead the Children of Israel into the Promised Land? You see God never promised them that victory would be easy either, but rather told them to have courage and faith to overcome anything that got in their way.
Do you have the same faith that our Forefather’s had? Or are you fearful and want to fly away?
Beloved, don’t be a draft dodger from the conflict that lies ahead. Stand the gap for your people, be a light unto the world, and show the world what a man, woman, or child of God looks like. Almighty God is counting on you BE A CHRISTIAN OVERCOMER!

“He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved†–Matthew 24:13
​

God Bless,
Pastor Ben Heath

 

[Randy]

I prefer pre wrath or pre judgement but I am neither a pre-trib, post trib or mid trib. I believe that we have had Christians die for the faith since the time of Christ. therefore we have been in the general trib for thousands of years.

There will be a great tribulation that comes upon the whole world. After the two witnesses have completed their testimony. 1260 days as I read. Ref: Rev 11 Those who still don't believe and repent of their sins will be deceived into following the beast. The bowl judgments are the last of Gods wrath and those judgments plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness. The angel of the abyss is released at the 5th trump. At the very end the Lord returns suddenly Rev 16:15 (2nd coming and 1st resurrection)

R.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

To Stand or be Raptured

I don’t write this message so I can say, “I’m right and you are wrongâ€. I write this out of love for my brothers in sisters in Christ. I do not want to see them disappointed or caught off guard as we approach the times that Christ forewarned us of.

You see God has a purpose and a plan for those of us who call ourselves Christians. And it isn’t to be daily hoping and praying for a quick escape from this earth before the Tribulation begins. We are to remain in the field working. Our Father wants to use us to witness against the False Messiah when he appears and to help wake up those who are under his strong delusion.


Are you ready to make a stand against the Forces of Evil?


Instead of making a stand many Christian’s believe that “at any moment†they will suddenly vanish from the earth and the airplanes, cars, and trains that were driven by them will crash and great panic and chaos will proceed.
This is silly.

Not only is it silly, but it is not Biblical. In fact, to believe in the “rapture theory†is to doubt almost every promise that God has made. And it also shows a lack of courage, patience, and faith (Revelation 13:10). Worse yet, it could lead one to worship the False Messiah.

It could lead them to do so because Satan will be the first supernatural being to appear on this earth claiming to be the Christ and those expecting “the rapture†will think that Jesus has come to “rapture†them away! This is very serious beloved.

God’s plan has never included an escape clause.
Let us read the words of Jesus praying to the Father asking Him to protect us here on earth:

I have given them Thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep the from the evil (one). –John 17:14-15
​

Notice that Jesus asks the Father not to take us out of the world (rapture) but rather prays that He protect us from the evil one while we are on earth. You know, this verse alone debunks the rapture theory.
Moreover, during the time of our testimony against the antichrist God will protect us like a mother eagle protects her young, as promised in Revelation 12:13-17. Even though we have that protection, as a true Christian we must be willing to make a stand regardless of the price. As it is written:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. –Matthew 10:28-31
​

Truly you are of more value than many sparrows if you study the word of God to understand His plan. You have nothing to fear and nothing to run from. Could you imagine if David ran away from the Giant Goliath, if Moses feared the wrath of Pharaoh, or if Joshua was afraid to lead the Children of Israel into the Promised Land? You see God never promised them that victory would be easy either, but rather told them to have courage and faith to overcome anything that got in their way.
Do you have the same faith that our Forefather’s had? Or are you fearful and want to fly away?
Beloved, don’t be a draft dodger from the conflict that lies ahead. Stand the gap for your people, be a light unto the world, and show the world what a man, woman, or child of God looks like. Almighty God is counting on you BE A CHRISTIAN OVERCOMER!

“He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved†–Matthew 24:13
​

God Bless,
Pastor Ben Heath

:amen

the word rapture has been twisted & used by false teachers who add the timing of pre trib to paul's words and try create a totally different coming of Jesus Christ out of context and other than what the Lord's word says in matt 24:29-31

If someone gets the timing wrong by mistakenly being deceived into thinking Jesus is coming pre trib then they are ripe to be seduced by the coming of false Christs

(aka pre trib rapture= the falling away, the purge of tares,gathering of whores of babylon, armies of satan,etc)

Jesus Christ the Lord says in matt 13:30 tares are gathered first then the wheat later. The post trib 2nd advent parousia & har*pad*zo is found in the bible:matt 24:29-31

the reapers will be gathering up wheat to His barn when gathering His elect to Him after the tribulation (to Jerusalem or heaven) either way the church does NOT fly away 1st "pre trib" (tares do)

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

I prefer pre wrath or pre judgement but I am neither a pre-trib, post trib or mid trib. I believe that we have had Christians die for the faith since the time of Christ. therefore we have been in the general trib for thousands of years.

There will be a great tribulation that comes upon the whole world. After the two witnesses have completed their testimony. 1260 days as I read. Ref: Rev 11 Those who still don't believe and repent of their sins will be deceived into following the beast. The bowl judgments are the last of Gods wrath and those judgments plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness. The angel of the abyss is released at the 5th trump. At the very end the Lord returns suddenly Rev 16:15 (2nd coming and 1st resurrection)

R.

Hey Randy how are you? The first resurrection has already started:

Matthew 27:50-54

1.started with those who resurrected in flesh AFTER He resurrected in flesh:


50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


fulfilling Job saying he would raise in his flesh, the OT saints did and since Jesus has risen to heaven so do we also continue to rise to Him. (the rapture is daily for saved Christians who die)
Jesus descend into hell and was raised by God from the dead and our Lord is able to continue to raise us to Him presently in heaven. we can't precede them because they're already there and will return with him (zech14,I thess 4:13-14,Jude 1:14-15,rev 19. the church is already in heaven in part in the form of saved saints who died and go there.

now the saved dead die and go to heaven (hope) we rise in spiritual bodies (we meet them in the aer daily till the 2nd advent gathering to Christ) in our own order:
1 Corinthians 15:40-45


40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


1 Corinthians 15:22-24

King James Version (KJV)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


A.Christ the First B.Every man his own order C. we alive and remaining at His parousia (matt 24:24-31)

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[jasoncran]

I prefer pre wrath or pre judgement but I am neither a pre-trib, post trib or mid trib. I believe that we have had Christians die for the faith since the time of Christ. therefore we have been in the general trib for thousands of years.

There will be a great tribulation that comes upon the whole world. After the two witnesses have completed their testimony. 1260 days as I read. Ref: Rev 11 Those who still don't believe and repent of their sins will be deceived into following the beast. The bowl judgments are the last of Gods wrath and those judgments plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness. The angel of the abyss is released at the 5th trump. At the very end the Lord returns suddenly Rev 16:15 (2nd coming and 1st resurrection)

R.

I am what is called a partial preterist. I don't believe that revalation is in future fully. future for john but remember that isreal was judged and damned. as was so judged that even know jews really cant even know what tribe or that the torah via that way cant returned.

Christians die dialy. if you doubt go to the middle east and india and see it for yourself. my view is the like this. jesus compared his return to the flood. what went on prior to the flood? evil much evil. the world has been evil ever since His crucifixation it hasn't changed much. yes the church has influenced the world, but man hasn't changed.

 

[Eugene]

isreal was judged and damned. as was so judged that even know jews really cant even know what tribe or that the torah via that way cant returned.

They haven't seen anything of the magnitude that lies ahead, or the remainder of the world for that manner. Don't spiritualize away an army of 200,000,000 as being something other than God's wrath. Luke 19:40 They as a nation ignore the testimony of Christ at this time and the stones surely cry out, and in a day future of Rev 6:16 they will say to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.

the world has been evil ever since His crucifixation it hasn't changed much.

Since Jesus' crucifixion? and Cain was a good guy? The world hasn't changed; modern communication just makes it better known.

 

[jasoncran]

ah yes the old well john didn't see a supernatural. so angels of god let loose a 2000000 army that turns on isreal and then he rescues them. uhm those are demons in nature we have had this conversation. you do take that most of revalation is a vision and that it stated literally.

tanks have wheels and when they fire there is no flame ever visible.

a horse is horse or it isn't.

.And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

nothing that mentions any army of humans but as usual you ignore that fact of logistics where if we have 200000000(2 billion) that is well slightly less a third of the earth population in tanks, never mind the food to feed them, nevermind the support teams to work on them, never mind that is only the tanks not the crew of four. so quadruple that number and we have a number of 8 billion in tanks without the infantry or the means of support and other things any army has. currently the earth's population is 9 billion. do you really think that you could fit that into the small valley of har meggido, which is really small. its valley overlooked by a hill. isreal at the widest is 25 miles. so it cant be more then a mile wide.

I don't claim to know how it will end but I REFUSE to take things out of context and make a doctrine on that and be dogmatic.

signed former army calvarmen, jasoncran. my job was to know tanks and things of this nature.

what about that star in verse one? is that a literal star to you?

And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

that is why I don't listen to many end times preachings.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

ah yes the old well john didn't see a supernatural. so angels of god let loose a 2000000 army that turns on isreal and then he rescues them. uhm those are demons in nature we have had this conversation. you do take that most of revalation is a vision and that it stated literally.

tanks have wheels and when they fire there is no flame ever visible.

a horse is horse or it isn't.

.And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

nothing that mentions any army of humans but as usual you ignore that fact of logistics where if we have 200000000(2 billion) that is well slightly less a third of the earth population in tanks, never mind the food to feed them, nevermind the support teams to work on them, never mind that is only the tanks not the crew of four. so quadruple that number and we have a number of 8 billion in tanks without the infantry or the means of support and other things any army has. currently the earth's population is 9 billion. do you really think that you could fit that into the small valley of har meggido, which is really small. its valley overlooked by a hill. isreal at the widest is 25 miles. so it cant be more then a mile wide.

I don't claim to know how it will end but I REFUSE to take things out of context and make a doctrine on that and be dogmatic.

signed former army calvarmen, jasoncran. my job was to know tanks and things of this nature.

what about that star in verse one? is that a literal star to you?

And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

that is why I don't listen to many end times preachings.

agreed the star that falls is satan, the army is the army of angels (joel 2) loosened (as the days of noe= the fallen angels here again as (Gen 6/Jude) Jesus Christ warns believers of.the sting is for them who fall away to the the false Christ's lie that they are Jesus
fire smoke brimstone= false doctrine, signs and lying wonders

Jesus warned to take heed lest we be deceived which is why I do listen to His end times teaching .

 

[jasoncran]

I can accept that to a degree., remember that in ad 70 2/3 thirds of the jewish population was wiped out.hardly what I would call a simple local war.

if we take much of revalation and look at it as a judgement of isreal then we get the idea. can anyone name me a culture that mourns today with ashes tossed on their heads?that is a westernised nation?

I cant. if all the book is the future save the first four chapters then may I ask who are the apostles murdered by the whore of Babylon?

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

I can accept that to a degree., remember that in ad 70 2/3 thirds of the jewish population was wiped out.hardly what I would call a simple local war.

if we take much of revalation and look at it as a judgement of isreal then we get the idea. can anyone name me a culture that mourns today with ashes tossed on their heads?that is a westernised nation?

I cant. if all the book is the future save the first four chapters then may I ask who are the apostles murdered by the whore of Babylon?

Revelations isn't for Israel only as Rev 7 proves a great multitude of gentiles also make it out of the great tribulation of false Christs. what verse are you referencing apostles being killed by the whore of babylon? I know Jesus told us we'd be betrayed beaten and killed yet were not apostles but believers .

obviously there's a lot of things about to happen since Israel became a nation again for the first time in 2000yrs. Jeremiah talks of the tribulation of nations and speaks of Persia,Libya,Egypt,Syria (in the news daily) and slowly Israel is being surrounded by those who wish to destroy Israel yet isn't it wonderful God is in control.

thanks and good talking to you.

 

[Randy]

I prefer pre wrath or pre judgement but I am neither a pre-trib, post trib or mid trib. I believe that we have had Christians die for the faith since the time of Christ. therefore we have been in the general trib for thousands of years.

There will be a great tribulation that comes upon the whole world. After the two witnesses have completed their testimony. 1260 days as I read. Ref: Rev 11 Those who still don't believe and repent of their sins will be deceived into following the beast. The bowl judgments are the last of Gods wrath and those judgments plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness. The angel of the abyss is released at the 5th trump. At the very end the Lord returns suddenly Rev 16:15 (2nd coming and 1st resurrection)

R.

I am what is called a partial preterist. I don't believe that revalation is in future fully. future for john but remember that isreal was judged and damned. as was so judged that even know jews really cant even know what tribe or that the torah via that way cant returned.

Christians die dialy. if you doubt go to the middle east and india and see it for yourself. my view is the like this. jesus compared his return to the flood. what went on prior to the flood? evil much evil. the world has been evil ever since His crucifixation it hasn't changed much. yes the church has influenced the world, but man hasn't changed.

So you believe Gods wrath has already been completed? Rev 15:1 And the coming of the Lord? Rev 16:15