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Willie T said:
The Book of Revelation has warped a lot of heads..... especially v-20, and thereabouts. I know this isn't going to happen, but we really do need to begin understanding some of the more than 350 symbolic reference to the OT that are written in Revelation.

And a lot of that is just using the head God gave us for more than just a hat rack. For only one thing, we should all know that our sun is about a million times bigger than the Earth..... and we should also know that our sun is one of the tiniest stars in the universe..... Others are millions of times bigger.

Yet, we have people who will swear that most of those countless number of stars, billions and billions of light years away, are going to react to our tiny planet's gravitational pull, and simultaneously hit the Earth. Good grief, if only our own sun shifted a degree and a half in its orbit, Earth would either burn up, or become a block of ice in a matter of moments.
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Well I have heard a bit of what you are talking about. Being raised in UPC meant I had lots to unlearn. I'm actually in agreement with you about the sun stars and moon being imagery. What I'm asking is if verse 29 is describing what you say, then what happened in the next two verses/sentences?

None of this is to say I do not take God at his word literally, even when it comes to slapping science right in the face in front of everyone. Take for instance Joshua 10:13-14. Now lots of people know that if you stop the planet from rotating and freeze the moon in place, gravity is borked and oceans would swallow cities. God is more than capable of maintaining the natural status quo while messing with things that, according to our science rules, spell utter disaster. This isn't to give credit to the idea of stars being pulled from wherever.
 
Northman said:
Well I have heard a bit of what you are talking about. Being raised in UPC meant I had lots to unlearn. I'm actually in agreement with you about the sun stars and moon being imagery. What I'm asking is if verse 29 is describing what you say, then what happened in the next two verses/sentences?

None of this is to say I do not take God at his word literally, even when it comes to slapping science right in the face in front of everyone. Take for instance Joshua 10:13-14. Now lots of people know that if you stop the planet from rotating and freeze the moon in place, gravity is borked and oceans would swallow cities. God is more than capable of maintaining the natural status quo while messing with things that, according to our science rules, spell utter disaster. This isn't to give credit to the idea of stars being pulled from wherever.
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I find I need answers sometimes. Passages like those don't give them. If the sun was standing still, keeping it daylight, how did they have even the slightest idea what the moon was doing?
 
Most of the "answers" we want to assume when we look at those passages, come not from the OT (as I spoke about earlier as being their origin) but from our imaginations. This can never give us correct answers.

For instance, what are "the oceans" in Bible language? Hint: It does not mean bodies of water.
 
Willie T said:
I find I need answers sometimes. Passages like those don't give them. If the sun was standing still, keeping it daylight, how did they have even the slightest idea what the moon was doing?
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You don't recall seeing the moon during the day?
 
Willie T said:
Most of the "answers" we want to assume when we look at those passages, come not from the OT (as I spoke about earlier as being their origin) but from our imaginations.
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So in this instance, the imagination is that verse 29 is not speaking of the Sanhedrin?

Willie T said:
For instance, what are "the oceans" in Bible language? Hint: It does not mean bodies of water.
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It really depends. I mean you have stuff like Isaiah 43:2 which is clearly not talking about actual water, but then you have Psalm 107:23-25 which is speaking of physical bodies of water. I don't think the whole waters/oceans/seas depending on translation can be pinned to one rule of thumb.
 
Northman said:
So in this instance, the imagination is that verse 29 is not speaking of the Sanhedrin?
The wisest path is NOT to assume that it HAS to be speaking of it.

It really depends. I mean you have stuff like Isaiah 43:2 which is clearly not talking about actual water, but then you have Psalm 107:23-25 which is speaking of physical bodies of water. I don't think the whole waters/oceans/seas depending on translation can be pinned to one rule of thumb.
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We just need to make sure we really do know what is being spoken of.
 
Willie T

"We just need to make sure we really do know what is being spoken of."

One idea came to me on Bible interpretation while I was playing Sudoku...

That was the notion of a range of possibilities for a particular tricky passage, that becomes clearer as more obvious passages are taken into account. Given the clear meaning of some, the potential meaning of others is clarified. Just an idea that stuck with me...
 
Willie T said:
It is interesting that the letter we call "Revelation" was written to people in the congregations of seven churches in Old Turkey....... People who already knew all the chapters of the OT by heart since they were young children. John knew they would understand what he was saying to them, and not (like some of us) try to make a crystal ball out of it.
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I dont think those people could quite grasp fire proceeding out of someone's mouth to devour their enemies.
Today its a common occurance.
And how many of those people could fanthom heaven.receding from the earth as a scroll bring rolled together?
Yet we know what a nuclear cloud rising to the heavens is.
They had no idea what any of these things meant.Today's 5th grader would have a greater understanding.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
I dont think those people could quite grasp fire proceeding out of someone's mouth to devour their enemies.
Today its a common occurance.
And how many of those people could fanthom heaven.receding from the earth as a scroll bring rolled together?
Yet we know what a nuclear cloud rising to the heavens is.
They had no idea what any of these things meant.Today's 5th grader would have a greater understanding.
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a tactical nuke which is also as likely wouldn't even produce that much of a cloud. an air burst and well then we should be looking for an edom then when edom turns on isreal. where is modern edom?

it was about where the palenstians are in the west bank. just on the other side of that in Jordan. no modern culture is actually from Edom to be claimed the brother of isreal. edom is long since gone.
 
jasonc said:
a tactical nuke which is also as likely wouldn't even produce that much of a cloud. an air burst and well then we should be looking for an edom then when edom turns on isreal. where is modern edom?

it was about where the palenstians are in the west bank. just on the other side of that in Jordan. no modern culture is actually from Edom to be claimed the brother of isreal. edom is long since gone.
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http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-2.htm
I dont believe the muslims use a nuke to destroy Jerusalem. I believe they take it as zechariah prophesied. I belIeve the king of the north nukes Jerusalem after the Muslims have taken the city.
Zechariah states the women of Jerusalem would be raped.That statement has the smell of"Muslim"all over it.
 
New Day Coming said:
Willie T

"We just need to make sure we really do know what is being spoken of."

One idea came to me on Bible interpretation while I was playing Sudoku...

That was the notion of a range of possibilities for a particular tricky passage, that becomes clearer as more obvious passages are taken into account. Given the clear meaning of some, the potential meaning of others is clarified. Just an idea that stuck with me...
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And it sounds like an excellent idea.
 
Willie T said:
we associate almost everything in the Bible with our own lives in the 20th & 21st Centuries. It seems to totally escape most modern Christians that those were foreign people with customs, habits and beliefs that were as far removed from ours as the span of millenniums between our times on Earth.
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BINGO!!!!
Willie T said:
They were foreigners in far-away lands, during a very different time period. We cannot know them by assuming they were just like us.
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Again - 100% correct
 
jasonc said:
a tactical nuke which is also as likely wouldn't even produce that much of a cloud. an air burst and well then we should be looking for an edom then when edom turns on isreal. where is modern edom?

it was about where the palenstians are in the west bank. just on the other side of that in Jordan. no modern culture is actually from Edom to be claimed the brother of isreal. edom is long since gone.
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J.R. Richards, in his Commentary makes a strong, strong, case for two instances of Historical Edoms, both fulfilling tyhe Prophecies of Obidiah and of the third one today, busy fulfilling them and I'll go a step further, ready to, soon, turn on Yisrael, any time nowe under a Leftist Government. Rome's columns and the symbol of the nation was, also like Edom was an Eagle resting in a nest of stars.

Look now to D.C. The Government buildings built by the Masons and the Knights Templar. All those tall, tall columns, last seen in the second instance of Edom and completed prophecy, Rome. Edom is alive and well. Do you remember tue Eagle in the Nest of Stars we all, Army, Marines, Air Force, Sailors and National Guard wore on our dress hats?
 
th1b.taylor said:
J.R. Richards, in his Commentary makes a strong, strong, case for two instances of Historical Edoms, both fulfilling tyhe Prophecies of Obidiah and of the third one today, busy fulfilling them and I'll go a step further, ready to, soon, turn on Yisrael, any time nowe under a Leftist Government. Rome's columns and the symbol of the nation was, also like Edom was an Eagle resting in a nest of stars.

Look now to D.C. The Government buildings built by the Masons and the Knights Templar. All those tall, tall columns, last seen in the second instance of Edom and completed prophecy, Rome. Edom is alive and well. Do you remember tue Eagle in the Nest of Stars we all, Army, Marines, Air Force, Sailors and National Guard wore on our dress hats?
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Modern Edom isn't a brother biologically like edom,the hashamite kings of syria and Jordan are kin ,but not even close to isreal.

Edom didn't speak Arabic .modern Edom is jordan.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-2.htm
I dont believe the muslims use a nuke to destroy Jerusalem. I believe they take it as zechariah prophesied. I belIeve the king of the north nukes Jerusalem after the Muslims have taken the city.
Zechariah states the women of Jerusalem would be raped.That statement has the smell of"Muslim"all over it.
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YHWH will destroy His City and nobody else. Read Ezekiel, I recall, 37,38 & 39. It will not be destroyed before our Christ, Jesus, rules fro there fr a thousand years, after the Great Tribulation, a.k.a. The Day of The LORD.
 
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