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This is beginning to feel like trying to explain Calculus to someone in the fifth grade.
"No," God did not destroy the religion He gave to man. He destroyed the vile perversion men had made of Judaism over the hundreds of years during which they turned it into a political force to control people.
 
Willie T said:
This is beginning to feel like trying to explain Calculus to someone in the fifth grade.
"No," God did not destroy the religion He gave to man. He destroyed the vile perversion men had made of Judaism over the hundreds of years during which they turned it into a political force to control people.
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Yup,the Sanhedrin gave us the lxx abd also preserved the torah ,prophets .they went south aND we're judged
 
Willie T said:
This is beginning to feel like trying to explain Calculus to someone in the fifth grade.
"No," God did not destroy the religion He gave to man. He destroyed the vile perversion men had made of Judaism over the hundreds of years during which they turned it into a political force to control people.
Click to expand...
So you believe today's Judaism is any better?Still the teachers of Judaism are blind leaders of the blind.
Until they repent and believe the gospel ,they remain blind.
 
Willie T said:
This is beginning to feel like trying to explain Calculus to someone in the fifth grade.
"No," God did not destroy the religion He gave to man. He destroyed the vile perversion men had made of Judaism over the hundreds of years during which they turned it into a political force to control people.
Click to expand...

Shilohsfoal said:
So you believe today's Judaism is any better?Still the teachers of Judaism are blind leaders of the blind.
Until they repent and believe the gospel ,they remain blind.
Click to expand...
I was wrong. My example of Fifth grade was a little too high. The information gap is much wider than I thought.
 
Willie T said:
This is beginning to feel like trying to explain Calculus to someone in the fifth grade.
Click to expand...
Uh-huh...
"No," God did not destroy the religion He gave to man. He destroyed the vile perversion men had made of Judaism over the hundreds of years during which they turned it into a political force to control people.
Click to expand...
You got it.
Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
Willie T said:
I was wrong. My example of Fifth grade was a little too high. The information gap is much wider than I thought.
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You nailed it again.
The most stubbornly insistent person I have encountered in a forum who believed himself to be an expert in Bible and theology was a grammar school dropout with a GED he got in the service. He barely understood his own native tongue (English) but believed that the Bible taught the stupidest nonsense I have ever seen posted in public. (Though I have heard the same kind of rubbish from people on my doorstep.)


iakov the fool
 
Jim Parker said:
Uh-huh...

You got it.
Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

You nailed it again.
The most stubbornly insistent person I have encountered in a forum who believed himself to be an expert in Bible and theology was a grammar school dropout with a GED he got in the service. He barely understood his own native tongue (English) but believed that the Bible taught the stupidest nonsense I have ever seen posted in public. (Though I have heard the same kind of rubbish from people on my doorstep.)


iakov the fool
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Well, my most frustrating thing is not necessarily the strange ideas people come up with through misunderstandings.... It is the "assumptions" they come to when they have never even read more than 15 or 20 chapters in the whole Bible.

I think much of that comes from, of course, the tall tales we insist on continuing to pass on to our children..... but, also from the way we associate almost everything in the Bible with our own lives in the 20th & 21st Centuries. It seems to totally escape most modern Christians that those were foreign people with customs, habits and beliefs that were as far removed from ours as the span of millenniums between our times on Earth.

I'm afraid some of us actually do believe those long-dead ancient people simply looked at life exactly as we do today. And I feel that we probably miss at least 80% of some of the messages written back then because of our flawed assumptions of them being just like us. They were foreigners in far-away lands, during a very different time period. We cannot know them by assuming they were just like us.
 
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Willie T said:
This is beginning to feel like trying to explain Calculus to someone in the fifth grade.
Click to expand...
I have absolutely no end times position, and don't generally actively research them. I was interested in what you were saying and wanted to know the why. But yes I felt like some of those answers you were giving me were fifth grade answers, they had no explanation, just stuff you figure that was. I wanted to know how exactly you connected the Sanhedrin to the sun moon and stars. That's why I asked further.

Willie T said:
"No," God did not destroy the religion He gave to man. He destroyed the vile perversion men had made of Judaism over the hundreds of years during which they turned it into a political force to control people.
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See now this is where I get confused again. You first said...
Willie T said:
All those things happened. You do not consider the premier religion of the world (the one God, Himself, ordained) being all but totally destroyed, to be the biggest thing to ever happen?
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So it was destroyed or part of it was destroyed or what? Right now I'm confused again because even in here where you answer that "all those things happened" when I had put up Matthew 24:21, makes me scratch my head. The siege of Jerusalem and indeed the entire campaign of the Romans in Judea at the time was not the longest and by very far not the bloodiest that had happened and most assuredly not worse than anything that would ever happen again. So what was unique that made this event qualify for Matthew 24:21? I would also be interested to hear in what way verses 30-31 happened.

God didn't just erase the perversion though, things He put in place with Moses, He changed, and added other stuff. I mentioned just a few of those things and they definitely are a deviation from what is known as Judaism.
 
Northman said:
I have absolutely no end times position, and don't generally actively research them. I was interested in what you were saying and wanted to know the why. But yes I felt like some of those answers you were giving me were fifth grade answers, they had no explanation, just stuff you figure that was. I wanted to know how exactly you connected the Sanhedrin to the sun moon and stars. That's why I asked further.


See now this is where I get confused again. You first said...

So it was destroyed or part of it was destroyed or what? Right now I'm confused again because even in here where you answer that "all those things happened" when I had put up Matthew 24:21, makes me scratch my head. The siege of Jerusalem and indeed the entire campaign of the Romans in Judea at the time was not the longest and by very far not the bloodiest that had happened and most assuredly not worse than anything that would ever happen again. So what was unique that made this event qualify for Matthew 24:21? I would also be interested to hear in what way verses 30-31 happened.

God didn't just erase the perversion though, things He put in place with Moses, He changed, and added other stuff. I mentioned just a few of those things and they definitely are a deviation from what is known as Judaism.
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I think that 70-AD destruction WAS the most egregious to ever happen... and nothing like it has ever happened again. Not at all because of sheer "numbers", but because of God's total rejection of the nation of Israel's political system that men had perverted Judaism into, and the replacement of it with the message of Christ, (God's original intention) resulting in a complete replacement of the contractual relationship God previously had with man.

And, I apologize for the snarky "fifth grade" comments. But, I feel that things like the paragraph I just typed shouldn't really have to be mentioned. This seems, to me, to be basic Bible 101 that we all learned in the early years of Sunday School. Maybe I am all wrong in my expectations.
 
Willie T said:
And, I apologize for the snarky "fifth grade" comments. But, I feel that things like the paragraph I just typed shouldn't really have to be mentioned. This seems, to me, to be basic Bible 101 that we all learned in the early years of Sunday School. Maybe I am all wrong in my expectations.
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Hey don't worry about it. I ask lots of questions. I am a man that understands that each of us has an understanding and lots of times those aren't shared.

Willie T said:
I think that 70-AD destruction WAS the most egregious to ever happen... and nothing like it has ever happened again. Not at all because of sheer "numbers", but because of God's total rejection of the nation of Israel's political system that men had perverted Judaism into, and the replacement of it with the message of Christ, (God's original intention) resulting in a complete replacement of the contractual relationship God previously had with man.
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And this would be an answer I could actually accept as your point of view, regardless of whether or not I have heard it before(i haven't btw but that doesn't mean a whole lot of anything). The thing someone like me would ask as a follow up would be; if the tribulation is as you describe it, what happens when He does it again? Although I'm not sold as to what exactly what is going to happen during and when the whole millennial thing actually takes place, there alludes to another changing.
 
Northman said:
Hey don't worry about it. I ask lots of questions. I am a man that understands that each of us has an understanding and lots of times those aren't shared.


And this would be an answer I could actually accept as your point of view, regardless of whether or not I have heard it before(i haven't btw but that doesn't mean a whole lot of anything). The thing someone like me would ask as a follow up would be; if the tribulation is as you describe it, what happens when He does it again? Although I'm not sold as to what exactly what is going to happen during and when the whole millennial thing actually takes place, there alludes to another changing.
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The Book of Revelation has warped a lot of heads..... especially v-20, and thereabouts. I know this isn't going to happen, but we really do need to begin understanding some of the more than 350 symbolic reference to the OT that are written in Revelation.

And a lot of that is just using the head God gave us for more than just a hat rack. For only one thing, we should all know that our sun is about a million times bigger than the Earth..... and we should also know that our sun is one of the tiniest stars in the universe..... Others are millions of times bigger.

Yet, we have people who will swear that most of those countless number of stars, billions and billions of light years away, are going to react to our tiny planet's gravitational pull, and simultaneously hit the Earth. Good grief, if only our own sun shifted a degree and a half in its orbit, Earth would either burn up, or become a block of ice in a matter of moments.
 
Willie T said:
The Book of Revelation has warped a lot of heads..... especially v-20, and thereabouts. I know it isn't going to happen, but we really do need to begin understanding some of the more than 350 symbolic reference to the OT that are written in Revelation.

And a lot of that is just using the head God gave us for more than just a hat rack. For only one thing, we should all know that our sun is about a million times bigger than the Earth..... and we should also know that our sun is one of the tiniest stars in the universe..... Others are millions of times bigger.

Yet, we have people who will swear that most of those countless number of stars, billions and billions of light years away, are going to react to our tiny planet's gravitational pull, and simultaneously hit the Earth. Good grief, if only our own sun shifted a degree and a half in its orbit, Earth would either burn up, or become a block of ice in a matter of moments.
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Or rip apart from gravity effect of the roach limit and also the moon would go.all life would end .nevermind the ancients thought comets were stars.enough of those ,that would render life hard.
 
jasonc said:
Or rip apart from gravity effect of the roach limit and also the moon would go.all life would end .nevermind the ancients thought comets were stars.enough of those ,that would render life hard.
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Yes, Roche knew his stuff. Just look at the effect our own moon has on this planet as it revolves around us every 28 days. And its track is precise and consistant.
 
Willie T

"we really do need to begin understanding some of the more than 350 symbolic reference to the OT that are written in Revelation."

I have long thought that Revelation is like the last chapter of a book which can only be properly understood by those who have thoroughly read the rest! As it communicates through allusions, types and picture language, if you don't cross reference, it is very easy to get some peculiar conclusions.

I have understood it in far greater depth through listening through Isaiah, Daniel and several of the "minor prophets". There are still a good number of questions I don't feel I have made up my mind over...
 
Willie T said:
Yes, Roche knew his stuff. Just look at the effect our own moon has on this planet as it revolves around us every 28 days. And its track is precise and consistant.
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I know ,I photo the evil night orb, it no like me camera. The man in the moon Is what I wanted
20f62195ef2c6045bbf8213234f13621a32aca2d.jpg
 
New Day Coming said:
Willie T

"we really do need to begin understanding some of the more than 350 symbolic reference to the OT that are written in Revelation."

I have long thought that Revelation is like the last chapter of a book which can only be properly understood by those who have thoroughly read the rest! As it communicates through allusions, types and picture language, if you don't cross reference, it is very easy to get some peculiar conclusions.

I have understood it in far greater depth through listening through Isaiah, Daniel and several of the "minor prophets". There are still a good number of questions I don't feel I have made up my mind over...
Click to expand...
It is interesting that the letter we call "Revelation" was written to people in the congregations of seven churches in Old Turkey....... People who already knew all the chapters of the OT by heart since they were young children. John knew they would understand what he was saying to them, and not (like some of us) try to make a crystal ball out of it.
 
Willie T said:
It is interesting that the letter we call "Revelation" was written to people in the congregations of seven churches in Old Turkey....... People who already knew all the chapters of the OT by heart since they were young children. John knew they would understand what he was saying to them, and not (like some of us) try to make a crystal ball out of it.
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I get that, but I find the conclusion that we are in the end times inescapable...

On a number of occasions I have felt like I have had it "all figured out" but I think it is more like when I order something online and I get a delivery window for the purchase.

The delivery window for the end times is announced by the budding of the fig tree...

Luke 21

"29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."

There might in hindsight turn out to be extra precision in the timing of things, but as the Bible defines "generations" in various time spans, I try not to be too dogmatic...

...on a separate note, looks like the 70th Anniversary of the state of Israel is coming up soon. I'll keep my eyes open and my lamp trimmed, just in case...

 
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