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Preterism & Biblical Prophecy

I don't know how much simplier I can make it.....I shall try.....

Revelation 5:10 "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."


Revelation 10:7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."


Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Again that could not be past else Christ would now be ruling from Jerusalem



This is what happens when you pull verses out of the larger context of the New Testament. There is an answer for every one of these verses that don't involve your interpretation of them!

Revelation 5:10 "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."
{4} John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, {5} and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— {6} and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Fatherto Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:4-6 (NASB)

Jesus Christ reigns over all NOW! And because He does, WE do.

Revelation 10:7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."
What is this "mystery of God?"

{3} that by revelation there was made known to me [Paul] the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. {4} By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, {5} which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; {6} to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, Ephesians 3:3-6 (NASB)

{26} that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, {27} to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:26-27 (NASB)

The mystery of God that was finished at the sounding of the 7th angel was the gospel of Christ made known to the Gentiles, so that they could be joint-heirs with Christ in the promises of God; promises that had only before been reserved for Israel.

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
{1} Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, {2} a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. Hebrews 8:1-2 (NASB)

{4} Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; Hebrews 8:4 (NASB)

{6} But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. Hebrews 8:6 (NASB)

He already has a "more excellent ministry" based on the covenant He confirmed through the shedding of His own blood. There is no reason for Him to reign from Jerusalem when He already reigns supreme where He is.
 
This is what happens when you pull verses out of the larger context of the New Testament. There is an answer for every one of these verses that don't involve your interpretation of them!

{4} John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, {5} and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— {6} and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Fatherto Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:4-6 (NASB)

Jesus Christ reigns over all NOW! And because He does, WE do.

What is this "mystery of God?"

{3} that by revelation there was made known to me [Paul] the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. {4} By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, {5} which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; {6} to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, Ephesians 3:3-6 (NASB)

{26} that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, {27} to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:26-27 (NASB)

The mystery of God that was finished at the sounding of the 7th angel was the gospel of Christ made known to the Gentiles, so that they could be joint-heirs with Christ in the promises of God; promises that had only before been reserved for Israel.

{1} Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, {2} a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. Hebrews 8:1-2 (NASB)

{4} Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; Hebrews 8:4 (NASB)

{6} But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. Hebrews 8:6 (NASB)

He already has a "more excellent ministry" based on the covenant He confirmed through the shedding of His own blood. There is no reason for Him to reign from Jerusalem when He already reigns supreme where He is.

If Christ reigns now,why is there still sin in the earth,in other words when will there be total peace on earth?

As per Rev 21,New Jerusalem
 
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If Christ reigns now,why is there still sin in the earth,in other words when will there be total peace on earth?

As per Rev 21,New Jerusalem

The kingdom of God is where God's spiritual throne is- in the church universal- the new Jerusalem.
This is not materialistic. Christ reigns as God now. "The kingdom of God is within you"
Christ put an end to sin by His sacrifice. That is why we have peace. Do you believe?

"Total peace on earth?" I think you confound "the world" with the kingdom of God. They are not the same.
 
The kingdom of God is where God's spiritual throne is- in the church universal- the new Jerusalem.
This is not materialistic. Christ reigns as God now. "The kingdom of God is within you"
Christ put an end to sin by His sacrifice. That is why we have peace. Do you believe?

"Total peace on earth?" I think you confound "the world" with the kingdom of God. They are not the same.

Soooooo,sin is gone?...I can't tell.........

Soooo,you don't sin anymore?

So are you saying there will never be total peace on earth?
 
Soooooo,sin is gone?...I can't tell.........

Soooo,you don't sin anymore?

So are you saying there will never be total peace on earth?

I never said sin was gone. Just that Jesus removes our sin-guilt.

And no, I do not believe that ideal is realistic. There will never be "total peace" in this sin filled world. Only in heaven.
 
I never said sin was gone. Just that Jesus removes our sin-guilt.

And no, I do not believe that ideal is realistic. There will never be "total peace" in this sin filled world. Only in heaven.

The world as we no it shall just go on forever?
 
The world as we no it shall just go on forever?

Oh, boy, don't sound so disappointed friend. It's still a beautiful world. Rise above it - like Jesus says, "be of good cheer for I have overcome the world "

And most of all, pray, bc you are not alone & never will be again. :amen
 
Soooooo,sin is gone?...I can't tell.........

Soooo,you don't sin anymore?

So are you saying there will never be total peace on earth?

There will be total peace the day God takes the free will He gave man away from him.

In other words: never.

You're looking for a Christ who will reign on earth like the warden of a planetary prison, compelling each and every man, woman, and child to obey the 10 Commandments and rule them with a "rod of iron."

He never promised that!

Tell you what, though: if you think that kind of repressive theocracy - the kind that removes the free will of man - is "heaven on earth", I have just the place where you should go live.

It's called "Iran." Enjoy your stay. :thumbsup
 
You're looking for a Christ who will reign on earth like the warden of a planetary prison, compelling each and every man, woman, and child to obey the 10 Commandments and rule them with a "rod of iron."
You're forgetting the best part! We get to rule with Him! Sweet!:whip
 
You're forgetting the best part! We get to rule with Him! Sweet!:whip

I honestly believe that the prime motivation for this view that Christ will reign on earth from Jerusalem is precisely because of this selfish desire to rule with Him, as you suggest.

I also believe it's driven by a sick, twisted desire to see everyone who's ever hurt us, lied to us, let us down, and disappointed us pay for their sins in the flesh - right before our eyes - and be sent straight to the Lake of Fire, where this unrequited need for vengeance is finally fulfilled.

People want to see those "filthy pagan sinners PAY" for all the times they stole our desert off the lunch tray at school, or teased us for being Christian, and the only way they'll really only get to enjoy that is to have a front-row seat when Christ returns to punish them and reward the saints!

You just have to look at the very judgmental spirit by which some people live their lives and how they post to see this attitude at work. And these same people think the Bible actually justifies these feelings of hatred they harbor toward the lost, best expressed in the words, "Christ is coming soon and boy is He gonna be angry!"

It's a sick, twisted doctrine that turns the gospel of Christ on its head, and lowers the Kingdom of God to the level of a 3rd world Marxist dictatorship!

Everything about that view sickens me and I can't believe I was ever stupid enough to believe it. :shame
 
There will be total peace the day God takes the free will He gave man away from him.

In other words: never.

You're looking for a Christ who will reign on earth like the warden of a planetary prison, compelling each and every man, woman, and child to obey the 10 Commandments and rule them with a "rod of iron."

He never promised that!

Tell you what, though: if you think that kind of repressive theocracy - the kind that removes the free will of man - is "heaven on earth", I have just the place where you should go live.

It's called "Iran." Enjoy your stay. :thumbsup

There was total peace before satan's rebellion,what makes you think it won't happen again?

Isaiah 65:17 "For, "Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away

Isaiah 65:18 "But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy."

Isaiah 65:19 "And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying."

What part of scripture don't you all understand???????
 
I honestly believe that the prime motivation for this view that Christ will reign on earth from Jerusalem is precisely because of this selfish desire to rule with Him, as you suggest.

I also believe it's driven by a sick, twisted desire to see everyone who's ever hurt us, lied to us, let us down, and disappointed us pay for their sins in the flesh - right before our eyes - and be sent straight to the Lake of Fire, where this unrequited need for vengeance is finally fulfilled.

People want to see those "filthy pagan sinners PAY" for all the times they stole our desert off the lunch tray at school, or teased us for being Christian, and the only way they'll really only get to enjoy that is to have a front-row seat when Christ returns to punish them and reward the saints!

You just have to look at the very judgmental spirit by which some people live their lives and how they post to see this attitude at work. And these same people think the Bible actually justifies these feelings of hatred they harbor toward the lost, best expressed in the words, "Christ is coming soon and boy is He gonna be angry!"

It's a sick, twisted doctrine that turns the gospel of Christ on its head, and lowers the Kingdom of God to the level of a 3rd world Marxist dictatorship!

Everything about that view sickens me and I can't believe I was ever stupid enough to believe it. :shame

To think that,is to not know scripture,those mentioned above will die the second death,it's not about wanting to see them pay,it's about the judgement of God,if you have a problem with it I sugest you talk to God....

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It's not hate it's justice....

Revelation 6:9
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

Revelation 6:10
"And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

Revelation 20:11
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away: and there was found no place for them."

Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

The Word of God is very clear,the foolishness you preach is simply that........FOOLISHNESS!!!!
 
If Rev 20:4-6 is supposed to be taken as the "lived" symbolically to represent them recieving the salvation of Christ, how can they have already been "beheaded for their witness to Christ and for the word of God?"
They are already saints who spiritually already recieved life in Christ and were beheaded for it, then live again.
How can one who recieves the salvation of Christ then be viewed beheaded? Did they somehow lose their salvation?
Yet Christ gives it back by telling us "they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years"

You dont realize it but your actually taking away the power of the cross, Christ Jesus.
Nothing can take His from Him, you cannot be dead if you have already recieved His life, you can be physically killed, death has no power over His however, glory to the Lord!

"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years

Souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Christ and the word of God.
(Saints who were beheaded for being saints and are shown as souls, not bodies, just as those under the altar in the 5th seal who are also spoken as have been physically killed)

Then we are told they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years, Spiritually they already had life as they were beheaded for thier witness and the word of God, how can spirtual life then be given spiritual life? They cant, once you are given life in Christ the next life you are given is a new body, which is a resurrection physically just as it was of Christ, Christ literally rose, so shall all of His.
Your spiritual 1000 years is rebuked.

Still even further, how can I say beheaded means physically dead and that the souls also represent that?
Look at the next words in the prophecy.
"But the rest of the dead" How can souls who are witnesses of Christ and the word of God be called dead? It's impossible spiritually, yet here God just said "the REST OF THE DEAD" so that means the first mentioned in the prophecy must also be spoken of as dead as the second group is said to be "the rest of the dead, we have 2 groups, souls that live 1000 years and dead who dont live until 1000 years are finished. The second is implied as the rest of the dead, meaning the first group is also referred as dead.
Contradiction if this prophecy is spiritually symbolic, spiritual life is never veiwed as dead, noone in Christ is spiritually dead, only physically.

So to understand it symbolically spiritually this is what those words would mean:

Christ's are beheaded for already having Christ and are given Christ's sacrifice again after having been beheaded. Thats spiritually recieving Christ twice.
If your going to say the thousand years are now, then what your saying is the dead in this case already had Christ but die to the world and recieve the life of salvation through Christ again.....do you realize what your saying???

Now if thats not what your saying then what are you saying?

Its clear beheading for a witness to Christ and the word of God must first occur in order for them to live again for 1000 years, that event must first happen for the 1000 years to even start, spiritually living, then somehow having it taken away that you must then live again does not make any sence at all with scripture.

Dying in Christ (spiritually, becoming a saint) and then physically dieing for that spiritual life you recieved when you became a witness to Christ and for the word of God and then recieving life, immortality and incorruption through Christ in a "first resurrection" follows the very words of that prophecy, it cannot be veiwed in any way as having spiritual representation.
If they hadent been displayed as being beheaded for their witness and then given life to live a thousand years it could be symbolic for spiritualization, it isnt written that way, we are told they had life, it was taken and they recieve life again to reign 1000 years and its shown that this is as Christ returned because they did not recieve the beast mark or worship him, Rev 19 clearly shows Christ returning and defeating that very beast they did not worsip or take of his mark.

It's literal, those with life are killed for it. When Christ returns He then raises them into life, they live again just as our Lord lived again, not spiritually, physically and then they reign with Christ 1000 years. In which in spiritual being witnesses of Christ and for the word of God they would have already spiritually been reigning with Christ as we are now with the Holy Spirit in His, and then they are given life to reign again, now for a thousand years, Spiritual + Physical life being given, reign for 1000 years and then the reign ends...WHAT HOW CAN THE REIGN EVER END?!?!?

Eat meat:
1 Corinthians 15:24-26
"Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when HE PUTS AN END TO ALL AUTHORITY AND POWER. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death."

Rev 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire

Last enemy destroyed.
Now look at 2 Peter 3:7 and 10-13 with what i just bolded at the top.

"But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men"

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells"

And the topper, Rev 21 in which we are shown 2 things, 1.the His promise we look for, new heaven and earth and 2. God the Father dwelling among us as 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 speak also of when reign is finished.

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
 
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Before anyone asks why i showed the heaven and earth being destroyed by fire, lets look:

Rev 20:7-10
"Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
 
Curiosity question.......

Matthew 24:5 "For many shall come in my name, saying, 'I am Christ;' and shall deceive many."

Matthew 24:6 "And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

Matthew 24:7 "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilence, and earthquakes, in divers places."

If the above as well as the rest of this chapter has already happened,why are these things still happening to this day?

Also,who won that war in 70 ad,was it not the Romans?Yet scripture says they lose in the end........

Revelation 19:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a like of fire burning with brimstone."
 
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If the above as well as the rest of this chapter has already happened,why are these things still happening to this day?
Oh c'mon, we will always have wars & diseases & earthquakes.

Also,who won that war in 70 ad,was it not the Romans?Yet scripture says they lose in the end...
The point is not that the Romans won. The point is that God divinely decreed them to defeat the Jews after the flesh. The Beast along with the false prophet were defeated in the prophecy. While the corporate beast was Rome & the false prophet was the Jewish high priest- Nero specifically went to his destruction & the harlot Babylon (Jerusalem) was judged also. The power of Satan & the Beast & the synagogue of Satan both are shown to have been defeated at Christ's coming.

That is the message of the prophecy.
 
Oh c'mon, we will always have wars & diseases & earthquakes.

n2thelight
No we will not!Read the verse,it's saying as long as there are wars the end is not

Matthew 24:6 "And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

Matthew 24:8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows."

Christ will not come back while there are wars going on........

I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

satan comes in peace as an angel of light along with his angels

II Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

Daniel 8:24 "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy People."

Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

satan is the beast and he has yet to be kicked out of heaven,which does not happen until the 6th trump

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

This will be a time of peace,as satan will have the whole world believing he is Christ...
That is why Christ said not to be deceived

Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."

satan has not even arrived yet and you all(preterist)are already deceived,you won't stand a chance when he arrives


The point is not that the Romans won. The point is that God divinely decreed them to defeat the Jews after the flesh. The Beast along with the false prophet were defeated in the prophecy. While the corporate beast was Rome & the false prophet was the Jewish high priest- Nero specifically went to his destruction & the harlot Babylon (Jerusalem) was judged also. The power of Satan & the Beast & the synagogue of Satan both are shown to have been defeated at Christ's coming.

That is the message of the prophecy.

Oh but that is very much the point,as those who come against Jerusalem in the end,will be defeated by Christ

Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

This is the "Day of the Lord" and the one on the horse is Jesus Christ. "Faithful and true" is the name of Jesus Christ, as we will see him referred to this to the end of Revelation.

You all claim that we are now in the milennium,were that true,people would not now still be deceived as the deceiver (satan)will be bound and unable to deceive


"Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Don't care how you slice it,the 2nd coming of Christ has not happened yet,to teach otherwise is blatant disregard for scripture,or should I say lack of understanding.....
 
Don't care how you slice it,the 2nd coming of Christ has not happened yet,to teach otherwise is blatant disregard for scripture,or should I say lack of understanding.....

Don't care how you slice it either. Scripture says that Christ returned as He promised the 1st century Christians. He didn't fail or postpone anything.

Preterism is a grassroots movement- the new reformation. Many are intellectually realizing that Preterism is the eschatology preached in the Bible.

The spiritual man can discern the prophecies. The material, natural man cannot.
 
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