Preterism & Biblical Prophecy

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

Well, we could do that too. But do you understand the fulfilled prophecy in the Bible about the New Jerusalem that I explained - how "the no more tears" in Rev.21 does not apply to heaven anyway- but to Israel? And death & Hades has already been done away with?

Now I will address your heaven thread.

I missed how Rev 21 was applicable to Israel. I don't see it being applicable to Heaven either BTW.
As for death and the grave being done away with, (in my Gary Coleman voice), Whatchu talkin' bout LeHigh? The scripture tell us that Jesus CONQUERED death already but nowhere does it imply that death has yet been done away with. If that were the case I'd imagine people wouldn't still be dying.

 

[Sinthesis]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

The saints from the first century were on the earth alive when John saw his vision of the church in heaven,according to you John was both alive on the earth and in heaven at the same time...

I suppose you believe Paul is crazy as well?:biglol

2Cr 12:1 ¶ It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Cr 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Cr 12:3 - And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Cr 12:4 - How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.​

'Bible Code Smilies' courtesy of King James;)

 

[n2thelight]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

Before Jesus left He gave them the answer to their question: “Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?†And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority†(Acts 1:6-7).

This is a completely different answer than “This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled†(Matt. 24:34)

It’s not for you to know the times or the seasons- he did not say to them: I have already told you it would be in your generation. It cannot be both- you will see it happen and it is not for you to know.

Matthew 24:3-4 “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?†Jesus then gives all kinds of events, catastrophes that would be signs of the end of the age and His coming( Lk.21:25). The Preterists insist all these took place in 70 AD.

Let us hear from Jesus to settle the matter…

Luke 11:30-31: “For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation†This is speaking of his resurrection to the generation that rejected him

Matthew 16:4 “and no sign shall be given to it (this generation) except the sign of the prophet Jonah.†This is the resurrection according to Jesus’ explanation (it repeated in Matthew 12:39; Mk.8:12).

Mark 8:12: “Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation.â€

If there are no signs to be given to his generation (“this generationâ€) then how can Mt. 24 be fulfilled- no sign is given to them like those mentioned in mt.24, the only sign is of the resurrection! Therefore they are reserved for another generation in their future.

 

[Stormcrow]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

I am so tempted to play "cut and paste", but I refuse to be that lazy considering who it is I am responding to is someone I see doing a bang up job of trying to relay scriptural truth. Much respect! Now before I go on to the disagreement may I point out that we are on the verge, especially me, of hijacking this thread. I'm cool with doing that as people likely know, but if it's a problem care to start or go to another one that talks about death, the difference between the soul and spirit, etc.?

Shall I suggest this http://www.christianforums.net/f20/resurrections-34239/ thread?

Posted there.

 

[Stormcrow]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

So what about Communion,do you all still partake of it?

I Corinthians 11:26 "For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till He come.""

I would think not,since He has come already,is this correct?

Water baptism, do you still partake of it?

{11} I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Matthew 3:11 (KJV)

If so, why?

The passage from I Corinthians 11 doesn't say you must eat of the bread and drink of the cup until He comes, it says for as often as you do you're commemorating His death until He comes.

It's a commemoration, not a commandment.

God doesn't excuse or overlook our ignorance, but sends teachers to help us overcome it.

Communion is a ritual rooted in the Passover Seder. It's not necessary for those in Christ to observe the Mosaic Laws: they were abolished once and for all with the generation upon whom vengeance for the covenant was executed: that happened in 70 AD.

I'm more interested in why you keep bringing these things up as though they're going to change a single word Christ spoke.

They're strawman arguments.

 

[Stormcrow]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

Before Jesus left He gave them the answer to their question: “Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?†And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority†(Acts 1:6-7).

This is a completely different answer than “This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled†(Matt. 24:34)

Wow. I was going to try and respond to this, but it's simply all over the map and - in the final analysis - I could make absolutely no sense of it whatsofreakingever.

Sorry, I'm not fluent in this kind of stuff. 2

 

[n2thelight]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

Water baptism, do you still partake of it?

{11} I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Matthew 3:11 (KJV)

If so, why?

The passage from I Corinthians 11 doesn't say you must eat of the bread and drink of the cup until He comes, it says for as often as you do you're commemorating His death until He comes.

It's a commemoration, not a commandment.

God doesn't excuse or overlook our ignorance, but sends teachers to help us overcome it.

Communion is a ritual rooted in the Passover Seder. It's not necessary for those in Christ to observe the Mosaic Laws: they were abolished once and for all with the generation upon whom vengeance for the covenant was executed: that happened in 70 AD.

I'm more interested in why you keep bringing these things up as though they're going to change a single word Christ spoke.

They're strawman arguments.

That wasn't the question,nor did I say it was a commandment,I asked do you still partake in it and if so why?

 

[Sam21]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

I suppose you believe Paul is crazy as well?:biglol

2Cr 12:1 ¶ It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Cr 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Cr 12:3 - And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Cr 12:4 - How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
​

'Bible Code Smilies' courtesy of King James;)

No,I do not believe Paul was crazy,however some of the "christians"in this forum sure seem to be leaning in that direction. You are mixing apples with rocks,not even close to the same thing. Paul was describing a man who had a vision of Heaven,Paul was not sure if the man was taken physically or just his soul and spirit went. On the other hand, to claim that the church was in Heaven (Rev 7 fulfilled),while John had not yet died and was writing to the church that was still on the earth, is not a reasonable thought.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

No,I do not believe Paul was crazy,however some of the "christians"in this forum sure seem to be leaning in that direction. You are mixing apples with rocks,not even close to the same thing. Paul was describing a man who had a vision of Heaven,Paul was not sure if the man was taken physically or just his soul and spirit went. On the other hand, to claim that the church was in Heaven (Rev 7 fulfilled),while John had not yet died and was writing to the church that was still on the earth, is not a reasonable thought.

Amen Sam, preterism is perhaps the most ridiculous theology in Christendom today. Right up there with Amillennialism..

 

[reba]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

Hi there,

Firstly, apologies if I have just labelled you with a title you are not. It's not my intention at all. Grace and peace to you, through our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Not a problem labels help us to understand each other and some of us have tons of labels cause one size does NOT fit all!

I've been reading a number of threads over the past few weeks and some of the information has been great in regards to this, and it has made me re-read scripture and continually look to understand the truth. Some things seem very accurate, some things don't (IMHO).

Is it wonderful we have so much info so easy to grasp. We can copy and paste in seconds what the scribes took weeks to do!

I guess what I find hard to understand is, looking at the world as it is, how you believe so much prophecy has already been fullfilled. I'm certainly not some doom merchant or someone who looks for negative things in the world, but when I look at the state of the world, it seems to me that it's spiralling more out of control and becoming less God fearing by the minute.

Lloyd,
2000 years ago there was about 12 Christians. I see Christ as King we as His subjects and His kingdom has grown over these 2000 years. Pessimist or Optimist?
This is His creation ... Lets say you built a home for your wife ... She finds every flaw she can ...this room should be bigger. i wanted granite counter tops...I knew we should have a bathroom in the mud room... It's cold, it's hot we need better air conditioning.. Are we not the Bride? Is this the home He has made for us while on earth? What do we do in our 'space' to make it better...

The greed of the world, the self-centredness, people who are obsessed with themselves (reality TV programmes as an example), crime rates, disobediant youth/children, drugs, blasphemors, materialism, same-sex marriages, church corruption - to name a few things. It seems the world is in need of judgement more than ever (Not that I would like anyone to suffer or wish anyone any trouble at all. In fact, I don't understand most of Revelation, and certainly want to stress the fact that I ask for no judgement, whether saved or not, but only that God may be glorified)

I am speaking of USA because this is where i live not putting down any other place.

Greed yes but how much help in man power and $$$ have we put out to Japan, Haiti, New Orleans, etc. Now the new disasters? Do you not help your neghbours? We are not all greedy.

It seems at least to me, that the world is moving further away from God, so if you believe that all/partial prophecy has been fulfilled, then why aren't we getting closer to God? Is it lack of education/understanding on scripture that is holding the world back? If prophecy is fullfilled and the world is, and will be, and will not be again reknewed, then how do we change the world to bring it closer to God? Or is it only in death we reign with Christ?

We all agree some prophecy has been fulfilled! The birth, death, resurrection, of Christ was at one time prophecy. As to The Revelation i understand much of it to have been about the destruction God sent to Jerusalem. 70 AD I believe that, because the murder of His Son was important. ( The Jewish leaders conspired to kill Him the Romans did it. at the same time He gave His life for my sin) To me most of Christianity today kinda skips over His death. His life/death changed history. It was the turning point for Scripture.

I would appreciate your discussion here and once again, enter the conversation with you with a humble heart and as someone striving for the truth.

Thanks,
Lloyd.

 

[Lehigh3]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

The saints from the first century were on the earth alive when John saw his vision of the church in heaven,according to you John was both alive on the earth and in heaven at the same time...

Obviously your lack of knowledge & comprehension about the book of Revelation is so off from the get go, that I will have to explain it while you probably beat the air resisting! But here's a few pointers.......

"The saints from or in the 1st century were alive on earth when John saw this vision of the church in heaven" you said.
How the heck would it be "prophecy" if it wasn't something that "was to take place shortly?"
Was John literally in heaven? I think not! He was given a VISION & was in the Spirit!
And you assume that "the great tribulation" was against the "church" It was not.
The great tribulation belongs to the "time of the end of Israel's Old Covenant age according to Daniel 12:1. And when "the power of the holy people is completely shattered." (Dan.12:7)
If this reference to the Great tribulation hearkens back to Rev.3:10 & the "time of trial coming on the whole earth," then we can see in the context the struggles between the "synagogue of Satan" & the church (the body of Christ)

Also, Jesus citing Daniel's prophecy, unequivocally stated that it would occur in His generation- & would come on Israel- in the land of Israel (Matt.24:15-21, 34)

What is often missed in Matt.24 is the progression of Jesus' message. He tells his disciples that they would be persecuted, by the Jews (Mark 13:9) but that then the great tribulation would come.

We should see that there is a direct connection between the persecution of the saints, by Judah, & the coming tribulation. In other words, the Great tribulation was not directed at the church. It is judgment on Judah for persecuting the saints!

Jesus told his followers to flee from Judea bc the coming Abomination of Desolation would bring in the Great Tribulation (Matt.24:15-21) These 2 events are inseparably linked. Christ wanted the church to escape from Judea, where the Great Tribulation would be focused. Now, that does not mean that Christians would not be caught up in the pogroms against the Jews outside Judea (ie: as some collateral damage) but it does mean that the focus of the Great Tribulation was Judah & the Jews.

 

[Hitch]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

Hi there,

Firstly, apologies if I have just labelled you with a title you are not. It's not my intention at all. Grace and peace to you, through our Lord, Jesus Christ.

I've been reading a number of threads over the past few weeks and some of the information has been great in regards to this, and it has made me re-read scripture and continually look to understand the truth. Some things seem very accurate, some things don't (IMHO).

I guess what I find hard to understand is, looking at the world as it is, how you believe so much prophecy has already been fullfilled. I'm certainly not some doom merchant or someone who looks for negative things in the world, but when I look at the state of the world, it seems to me that it's spiralling more out of control and becoming less God fearing by the minute. The greed of the world, the self-centredness, people who are obsessed with themselves (reality TV programmes as an example), crime rates, disobediant youth/children, drugs, blasphemors, materialism, same-sex marriages, church corruption - to name a few things. It seems the world is in need of judgement more than ever (Not that I would like anyone to suffer or wish anyone any trouble at all. In fact, I don't understand most of Revelation, and certainly want to stress the fact that I ask for no judgement, whether saved or not, but only that God may be glorified)

It seems atleast to me, that the world is moving further away from God, so if you believe that all/partial prophecy has been fulfilled, then why aren't we getting closer to God?

We are taught .as per the personally uttered word of our Lord a simple fact;

24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The kingdom Jesus speaks of is only that which was prophesied. Jesus is explicit in telling us that the enemy will be active through the entire history of the kingdom. The reason given is absolutely clear as per v 29: its better for us that we grow along side the evil. No I havent the least notion as to why . However we cant read bible history and fail to see the God has always allowed some evil on earth and wants us to endure and grow anyway. Another important aspect of the kingdom taught here is gradualism. We hear so much about how near the end is blah blah blah. Could be, but I have no doubt, God has all the time there is and cannot be hurried. So if God is content to have His kingdom not only exist but grow within the sight and smell of the enemy who are we to object?

Is it lack of education/understanding on scripture that is holding the world back?

No. While I can agree we appear to be at a low ebb, would anyone say the church was closer to God in the Dark Ages than today? I dont believe ,in history, ebb and flow, will ever cease to exist. [/quote] If prophecy is fullfilled and the world is, and will be, and will not be again reknewed, then how do we change the world to bring it closer to God?[/quote] By following Paul's advise. Can you tell me you would have remained faith were you Paul's helper and went through all that trouble? Maybe you could have, but the point is Paul was content to work knowing the great fruit bearing would not come for tens ,hundreds even thousands of years. He took Jesus seriously,he understood the kingdom grows in and through time and it is the Father's good pleasure that we endure the historical process.

Or is it only in death we reign with Christ?

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

I would appreciate your discussion here and once again, enter the conversation with you with a humble heart and as someone striving for the truth.

Thanks,
Lloyd.

 

[Lehigh3]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

by Hitch,

24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The kingdom Jesus speaks of is only that which was prophesied. Jesus is explicit in telling us that the enemy will be active through the entire history of the kingdom. The reason given is absolutely clear as per v 29: its better for us that we grow along side the evil. No I havent the least notion as to why . However we cant read bible history and fail to see the God has always allowed some evil on earth and wants us to endure and grow anyway. Another important aspect of the kingdom taught here is gradualism. We hear so much about how near the end is blah blah blah. Could be, but I have no doubt, God has all the time there is and cannot be hurried. So if God is content to have His kingdom not only exist but grow within the sight and smell of the enemy who are we to object?

Hmm, this making of doctrine about "the power of the enemy" based on PARABLES
I disagree with. If we were still under the Old Covenant it would be true, but the Old Covenant ended. We reap what we sow.
And I know Hitch that you DO NOT believe ALL prophecy has been fulfilled!
The FULFILLMENT of the parable of the "wheat & tares" is seen in Rev.14:14-20.
Matt.13:36-43 NKJV,
The Parable of the Tares Explained


36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.â€
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! (emph. mine)

Hmm. Space doesn't allow for passages about who were accused of being "fathered" by the devil....anyway,

And God was shaking both the earth & heaven ONCE more (out of the kingdom) Hebrews 12.

Matt.13:1-23 NKJV, (I like this parable & explanation much better, as it does not seem to be as temporal)
The Parable of the Sower

1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!â€The Purpose of Parables


10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?â€
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:


‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a]heal them.’[b]
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
The Parable of the Sower Explained


18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.â€Footnotes:

1. Matthew 13:15 NU-Text and M-Text read would.
2. Matthew 13:15 Isaiah 6:9, 10

 

[Hitch]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

Hmm, this making of doctrine about "the power of the enemy" based on PARABLES

You're a mess.

 

[Lehigh3]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

You're a mess.

That officially makes you a hypocrite.
What an UGLY thing for a Christian to say! Muy feo.

 

[warhorse]

Re: Questions for the Preterists/Fullfilled Prophecy people here (Stormcrow, Hitch et

Hi there,

Firstly, apologies if I have just labelled you with a title you are not. It's not my intention at all. Grace and peace to you, through our Lord, Jesus Christ.

I've been reading a number of threads over the past few weeks and some of the information has been great in regards to this, and it has made me re-read scripture and continually look to understand the truth. Some things seem very accurate, some things don't (IMHO).

I guess what I find hard to understand is, looking at the world as it is, how you believe so much prophecy has already been fullfilled. I'm certainly not some doom merchant or someone who looks for negative things in the world, but when I look at the state of the world, it seems to me that it's spiralling more out of control and becoming less God fearing by the minute. The greed of the world, the self-centredness, people who are obsessed with themselves (reality TV programmes as an example), crime rates, disobediant youth/children, drugs, blasphemors, materialism, same-sex marriages, church corruption - to name a few things. It seems the world is in need of judgement more than ever (Not that I would like anyone to suffer or wish anyone any trouble at all. In fact, I don't understand most of Revelation, and certainly want to stress the fact that I ask for no judgement, whether saved or not, but only that God may be glorified)

It seems atleast to me, that the world is moving further away from God, so if you believe that all/partial prophecy has been fulfilled, then why aren't we getting closer to God? Is it lack of education/understanding on scripture that is holding the world back? If prophecy is fullfilled and the world is, and will be, and will not be again reknewed, then how do we change the world to bring it closer to God? Or is it only in death we reign with Christ?

I would appreciate your discussion here and once again, enter the conversation with you with a humble heart and as someone striving for the truth.

Thanks,
Lloyd.

My crack pipe is too short to keep up with this thread.

 

[Hitch]

Gentry on Hyper-Preterism



Excerpt:

Creedal Failure
First, hyper-preterism is heterodox. It is outside the creedal orthodoxy of Christianity. No creed allows any second Advent in A.D. 70. No creed allows any other type of resurrection than a bodily one. Historic creeds speak of the universal, personal judgment of all men, not of a representative judgment in A.D. 70. It would be most remarkable if the entire church that came through A.D. 70 missed the proper understanding of the eschaton and did not realize its members had been resurrected! And that the next generations had no inkling of the great transformation that took place! Has the entire Christian church missed the basic contours of Christian eschatology for its first 1900 years?






A Brief Theological Analysis of Hyper-Preterism by Kenneth Gentry, Jr.

 

[Cyberseeker]

Re: Gentry on Hyper-Preterism

Clement of Rome lived through A.D. 70 and had no idea he was resurrected!

Good point. At the very least he might have spoken in tongues or his hair turned white.

:yes

 

[Lehigh3]

Re: Gentry on Hyper-Preterism

Who are you trying to influence with Gentry, Hitch?

Gentry is an apologetic for post-millennialism, but he didn't record prophecies in the Holy Writ either. He has to include the word "hyper" before preterism to distract his audience.

He is not a full preterist. Period. Do you know that he did write about & support the early writing date of Revelation ? And that Jerusalem of the 1st century was the harlot in Revelation- & that the beast of Rev.13:1 was Nero?

Great! But when it came to the return of Jesus, he magically said that God's "soon" didn't mean soon- & that there would magically be a dual fulfillment of Jesus' return- & completely denies the Second Coming (hello-there is only one) in Scripture!!

And best of all, he backed out of the debate against Don K. Preston regarding full preterism when challenged.

Men cannot change sometimes, even if the truth is clearer- they want to please their pockets more than admit & pursue God's truth. They need to represent uninspired "creeds" in their mind - & their profiting from that agenda- that they cannot confront the truth which others have realized, & make $ at anyway- bc Preterism is the new Reformation (which took 1500 yrs to realize anyway!)

The church didn't miss it. The writers of the "creeds" surely did- mostly to promote an ecclessiastical agenda & their religious dogma- like you are still trying to do!

Read it & weep.....(or else maybe advance your studies & learn from the full preterists)
The Road Back to Preterism A Brief History of Eschatology and the Church

As I've noted about this article before- K. Simmons has his own slant of a bimillennial picture of Rev.20. Almost all preterists do not agree. It's the same thousand yrs. spoken of about Satan being boundas it is the martyrs as judges on thrones during that millennium. We do not rupture the Scripture in Rev.20. But Simmons' history about Preterism is the best in this article!

Read it when you have time.

 

[Stormcrow]

Re: Gentry on Hyper-Preterism

Excerpt:

Creedal Failure
First, hyper-preterism is heterodox. It is outside the creedal orthodoxy of Christianity. No creed allows any second Advent in A.D. 70. No creed allows any other type of resurrection than a bodily one. Historic creeds speak of the universal, personal judgment of all men, not of a representative judgment in A.D. 70. It would be most remarkable if the entire church that came through A.D. 70 missed the proper understanding of the eschaton and did not realize its members had been resurrected! And that the next generations had no inkling of the great transformation that took place! Has the entire Christian church missed the basic contours of Christian eschatology for its first 1900 years?






A Brief Theological Analysis of Hyper-Preterism by Kenneth Gentry, Jr.

As you know, I am not a preterist of any kind. I think labels like this simply become strawmen, and allow people to treat these issues as a competition between equally valid interpretations. It is not.

Either the words Christ spoke are true and we simply don't understand everything He meant when He said them, or He lied to us. If He is a liar, why follow Him? Why believe anything He said?

There are two verses I think that keep me from falling completely into one camp
or the other:

{39} "For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'" Matthew 23:39 (NASB)

{6} So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?" {7} He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; Acts 1:6-7 (NASB)

​

With these two verses, Christ leaves open the possibility that He could - in fact - come a third time to restore the kingdom to Israel: the Israel that should have accepted Him the first time He came.


He didn't say He would restore the kingdom to Israel. He didn't say He wouldn't. He said it was conditional on Israel accepting Him and that - basically - it was none of our business.


I realize that doesn't fit with a "full preterist" view, but - as I have written many times - I'm not a preterist.


However, I do think it's clear from the apostle's understanding of His words that they fully expected Him to return in their lifetime. He said so. That coming was in judgment, as has been previously shown before.


In the final analysis, the history of the kingdom of God is still being written. In the meantime, we're to keep on keeping on.