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Preterism & Biblical Prophecy

What is the Preterist view?

This IS an introduction for the 1st time student of preterist eschatology.

Unlike the "orthodox" uninspired writers of creeds, implying a 3rd return of Jesus-

this preterist introduction's foundation is from the inspired men & Divine of the Bible.

Please keep any criticism (positive or negative) to the posted article content itself- & not opinion about traditional creedists insist on in Christianity. Thank you!

"Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: (Jewish courtesy speech forbade a direct
answer to a question like the preceding-author) Nevertheless I say unto you, (that
is Caiaphas-author) hereafter shall YE (the plural form, referring to the
Sanhedrin as well) see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and
coming in the clouds of heaven†(Matthew 26:64)
Again, we are faced with one of “those†passages that demands that we face what
Christ is plainly saying. No, there is no Greek here that one must check in order
to elucidate some hidden meaning that will enable one to maintain their futuristic
view of the Parousia. The statement is plain on its face. Christ told Caiaphas
that he himself would see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven. That
absolutely mandates that we understand Christ to be informing Caiaphas that he and
at least some members of the Sanhedrin would still be alive when Christ returned
coming in the clouds of heaven. It is simply an illegitimate transfer of meaning
to try to ascertain from this passage something else other than what is plainly
declared. Some scholars have attempted to put into the mouth of Christ that what
He was “really†referring to was that one of Caiaphas’ relatives would see Christ
coming. That leaves it nice and open-ended. Others propose the idea that what
Christ was referring to was that at the end of time, the dead would somehow be
enabled to view the Lord Jesus coming in the clouds. But there is no exegetical
reason to consider such bankrupt excuses. Let us deal with precisely what Christ
means by what He says. After reviewing all the passages we have dealt with thus
far, it is not only logical, but also easy to receive the truth of Christ’s view
of His own Second Coming. Christ taught that He Himself would return to the same
generation that He had departed from, in clouds of glory, with His angels, to
bring judgment upon those whom He would. To say anything less in light of the
accumulative facts presented, borders upon a level of disingenuousness that
dishonors the validity, integrity and ultimately, the inspiration of the
scriptures themselves. Let’s consider one final gospel passage that points toward
the first century timing of the Second Coming of Christ."

The article in full: What is the Preterist View?
 
Re: What is the Preterist view?

Flee from this heresy...
 
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Re: What is the Preterist view?

Flee from this heresy...

Criticism was asked to be addressed to the inpired Text & not to what so-called "orthodoxy" created as eschatological "heresy."

I can say the same for your ridiculous dispensationalism!
Reply intellectually & not with emotions! Be a thinker!
 
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Re: What is the Preterist view?

And when did Caiaphas die?:chin
 
Re: What is the Preterist view?

And when did Caiaphas die?:chin
Not quite sure of the exact year of death for this Caiaphas,

but what is pertinent- is the office that both he & Annas, mentioned in the 4 gospels, had held- which was the office of the high priest. The leaders of the Jews.

It is supposed that there were in all eighty-three high priests, beginning with Aaron (B.C. 1657) and ending with Phannias (A.D. 70).
 
Re: Preterism

Three threads have been combined into one. Please keep all Preterism discussion in this thread instead of flooding the board with multiple threads. Thank you.
 
Re: What is the Preterist view?

You're on the right track! :thumbsup Keep studying and remember that your reward is in knowing the Truth of God. :yes

Oh, you got that right! :-)
So, I'll bump it!

Originally Posted by Lehigh3 This IS an introduction for the 1st time student of preterist eschatology.

Unlike the "orthodox" uninspired writers of creeds, implying a 3rd return of Jesus-

this preterist introduction's foundation is from the inspired men & Divine of the Bible.

Please keep any criticism (positive or negative) to the posted article content itself- & not opinion about traditional creedists insist on in Christianity. Thank you!

"Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: (Jewish courtesy speech forbade a direct
answer to a question like the preceding-author) Nevertheless I say unto you, (that
is Caiaphas-author) hereafter shall YE (the plural form, referring to the
Sanhedrin as well) see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and
coming in the clouds of heaven†(Matthew 26:64)
Again, we are faced with one of “those†passages that demands that we face what
Christ is plainly saying. No, there is no Greek here that one must check in order
to elucidate some hidden meaning that will enable one to maintain their futuristic
view of the Parousia. The statement is plain on its face. Christ told Caiaphas
that he himself would see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven. That
absolutely mandates that we understand Christ to be informing Caiaphas that he and
at least some members of the Sanhedrin would still be alive when Christ returned
coming in the clouds of heaven. It is simply an illegitimate transfer of meaning
to try to ascertain from this passage something else other than what is plainly
declared. Some scholars have attempted to put into the mouth of Christ that what
He was “really†referring to was that one of Caiaphas’ relatives would see Christ
coming. That leaves it nice and open-ended. Others propose the idea that what
Christ was referring to was that at the end of time, the dead would somehow be
enabled to view the Lord Jesus coming in the clouds. But there is no exegetical
reason to consider such bankrupt excuses. Let us deal with precisely what Christ
means by what He says. After reviewing all the passages we have dealt with thus
far, it is not only logical, but also easy to receive the truth of Christ’s view
of His own Second Coming. Christ taught that He Himself would return to the same
generation that He had departed from, in clouds of glory, with His angels, to
bring judgment upon those whom He would. To say anything less in light of the
accumulative facts presented, borders upon a level of disingenuousness that
dishonors the validity, integrity and ultimately, the inspiration of the
scriptures themselves. Let’s consider one final gospel passage that points toward
the first century timing of the Second Coming of Christ."

The article in full: What is the Preterist View?
 
Re: What is the Preterist view?

Not quite sure of the exact year of death for this Caiaphas,

but what is pertinent- is the office that both he & Annas, mentioned in the 4 gospels, had held- which was the office of the high priest. The leaders of the Jews.

It is supposed that there were in all eighty-three high priests, beginning with Aaron (B.C. 1657) and ending with Phannias (A.D. 70).
The article you posted insists that Caiaphas was alive at the Parousia. Got any proof one way or the other?:chin
 
Re: Preterism

1 Thess 4:13 - 5:11
13 Brothers, we want you to understand the situation of those who are sleeping [in death], so you aren’t saddened… as are those who have no hope. 14 For, if we believe that Jesus died and was resurrected, then we also believe that The God will lead those who have [have been] sleeping through Jesus, to be with him.
15 What we are saying to you is the word of the Lord… that the living who remain until the coming of the Lord will definitely not go ahead of those who have been sleeping. 16 Because, the Lord himself will come down from heaven and give the command in the voice of the highest messenger [of God] and with God’s trumpet; then those who have died in the Anointed One will be resurrected first. 17 And we the living (those remaining at the time) will be snatched into the clouds along with them for a meeting of the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be together with the Lord.
18 Keep comforting each other with these words.
Chapter 5

1 Now, when it comes to the times and seasons, brothers, nothing needs to be written to you, 2 because you know very well that the Lord’s Day is coming as a thief in the night. 3 And whenever they’re saying ‘Peace and security,’ destruction will come on them instantly like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they won’t escape. 4 However, brothers, you aren’t in the dark… so that Day shouldn’t sneak up on you like thieves! 5 Why, you’re all sons of light and sons of the day… we don’t belong to night or to darkness!
6 Really then; Let’s not fall asleep like all the rest. Let’s stay awake and keep sober, 7 for those who are sleeping, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But, may we who belong to the day stay sober as we wear the breastplate of faith and love and [put on] our hope of salvation as though it were a helmet. 9 Because, The God didn’t assign us to His wrath, but to being saved through our Lord Jesus the Anointed One. 10 Why, he died for us, so that whether we stay awake or we’re asleep, we should live together with him! 11 Keep comforting each other with this [thought] and keep building each other up, just as you’re already doing.

Anyone who has read my posts knows that I believe the scriptures have many "preterist" ideas within their pages. The passage i posted from Thessalonians above is one that not many preterists (full) talk much about. It seems rather clear in saying that when Jesus came that he was not only coming in judgment but also to resurrect dead saints and snatch away the saints that were alive to BE WITH HIM ALWAYS.
Again, it seems clear that there was to be a resurrection and snatching away that was to take place at Jesus' parousia that was PHYSICAL and real. How does the full preterist deal with the message of this and other such passages in light of their doctrine which claims ALL THINGS have been fulfilled?
 
Re: What is the Preterist view?

The article you posted insists that Caiaphas was alive at the Parousia. Got any proof one way or the other?:chin
I see what you mean. I do think the author was too liberal & literal with Christ's words by saying he (that high priest) himself would see Christ coming over Judea. The author does recognize the total sum of the verse though- that Jesus was speaking of all of the office of Sanhedrin as well.
To me, Jesus words meant that "you" as in the leaders of the Jews in the temple, in that generation, would see Christ coming in the glory of the Father. That is also the reference to "every eye shall see Him" in Rev.1. It's to the Jews. And it must have been perceived by them, whether they were killed or were taken as slaves.(the law of 'curses' in Deut.)

Point is that Biblical Judaism ended in AD70. The consummation of the ages was in AD70. Jesus was the mediator of the New Covenant & the old waxed old & became obsolete.

The New Heaven & earth, the New Jerusalem, was free to come.
 
Preterism & How It Relates to End Times Biblical Prophecy

Think this will be my last post on this subject,understand that I never said that you all were wrong,what I tried to show was that you were not all the way right.

Hope this article can convey where you err, better than I was able too......

[SIZE=+3]Preterism & Biblical Prophecy[/SIZE]
Is all prophecy already fulfilled?


Preterism & Biblical Prophecy Is all prophecy already fulfilled?
 
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From the reference:

Others would prefer to speak in terms of a "canonical process" which develops more fully and more specifically the original sense and intent of the prophecy. More popularly, interpreters speak of the "now and not yet" aspect of Biblical prophecy, emphasizing that a given prophecy may well come to realization now yet await its fuller manifestation later; its fulfillment is both now and not yet.
I can accept this. So while it is clear that the kingdom of God is indeed here, and that Jesus has already been enthroned as King over all creation, there is also a sense in which these things will be more fully consummated in the future.

But it is clearly non-Biblical to deny the present reality of the Kingdom of God here on earth and / or to deny Jesus' present kingship.
 
From the reference:

The same is true in reference to the Kingdom. It came with the coming of Jesus. His Kingdom is "now." But He also taught us to pray, "Thy Kingdom come" (Mat.6:10). He taught that the Kingdom was future (Mat.7:21; 25:31ff etc.). Paul and the other NT writers regularly spoke of Christ's Kingdom as future (e.g., 2 Tim.4:1). The Kingdom, for Jesus and the apostles, was "now and not yet." Its fulfillment comes in stages.
I would agree yet again - there is indeed a "now and not yet" sense to the kingdom. My objection is to those who would deny that the kingdom lies entirely in the future, and that there is no sense in which it is here right now. That position cannot work Biblically.
 
As we consider the Kingdom and more specifically Jesus' kingship we would do well to not be myopic in viewing the extent of the kingdom to anything less than an entire universe enveloping kingdom. With that said it is also necessary to point out that just because Jesus as king as been given all authority, that does not mean that all who live in the realm of the kingdom have submitted to Jesus' authority. Recalling Jesus' exemplarary prayer where he made mention of God's will being done on Earth as it is in Heaven, we can likely safely say that our world though subject to King Jesus is still in rebellion to him and therefore his God as well. So in a sense, his reign has not yet been established in this world and will not be until the rebellion ceases. I believe as the preterist does that we are living in the kingdom, but our local in the kingdom is still being influenced and controlled by rebel spirits and their human cronies to a great extent thus the vile things we see and exterience daily keep occuring.
 
We are living in God's spiritual kingdom where righteousness dwells. That is the New Jerusalem. The new heaven & earth (2Pet.3:13)

The old Jerusalem & the old covenant is the focus of Hebrews12. They came to Mt. Zion- the Jerusalem which is above) where here (on earth) they had "no continuing city"

The importance of the literal Jerusalem, symbolic of the temple & the Levitical sacrifices must give way to the heavenly Jerusalem. Heb.12:18-22 contrasts the 2 mountains. Mt. Sinai & Mt Zion with the 2 covenants, just as in Galatians 4.

The background is the O.T. the prophetic hope, Zion, the center of God's schema. In establishment of the kingdom, the nations would come to Zion. (Isa.2:2) After the great judgment, & destruction of death, Jehovah would spread the Messainic Banquet, & rule in Zion (Isa.24-25) The river of life would flow from Jerusalem after the Lord had come in judgment (Zech.14:8) Isaiah foretold of the new heavens & earth, Jehovah would also create a new Jerusalem (Isa. 65:17-19)
Isa. 65 serves as the N.T. teaching about the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem would follow the judgment of Israel.
;)
 
As we consider the Kingdom and more specifically Jesus' kingship we would do well to not be myopic in viewing the extent of the kingdom to anything less than an entire universe enveloping kingdom.
I heartily agree.

With that said it is also necessary to point out that just because Jesus as king as been given all authority, that does not mean that all who live in the realm of the kingdom have submitted to Jesus' authority. Recalling Jesus' exemplarary prayer where he made mention of God's will being done on Earth as it is in Heaven, we can likely safely say that our world though subject to King Jesus is still in rebellion to him and therefore his God as well.
Agree - even though Jesus is king, large swathes of the world are obviously in a state of rebellion.

So in a sense, his reign has not yet been established in this world and will not be until the rebellion ceases. I believe as the preterist does that we are living in the kingdom, but our local in the kingdom is still being influenced and controlled by rebel spirits and their human cronies to a great extent thus the vile things we see and exterience daily keep occuring.
I agree with you.
 
From the reference:


I would agree yet again - there is indeed a "now and not yet" sense to the kingdom. My objection is to those who would deny that the kingdom lies entirely in the future, and that there is no sense in which it is here right now. That position cannot work Biblically.
duh, the kingdom in nigh even at the door. that is the spiriitual side, the physical is yet to come where there wont be any enemy to be dealt with.
 
Correct. We live in the New Jerusalem under the New Covenant of Grace.

Anyone who doesn't, isn't in the spiritual kingdom on earth, & thus "outside."
 
duh, the kingdom in nigh even at the door. that is the spiriitual side, the physical is yet to come where there wont be any enemy to be dealt with.

You are referring to heaven- post-mortem, aren't you Jason? :angel
 
You are referring to heaven- post-mortem, aren't you Jason? :angel
no.

i am stating that we once saved are subjects to the father and his kids by adoption. as whereby we cry abba father. we are ambassadors for christ. do ambassador stay in there own country or do they go to other lands to represent the king they serve(or pm or president). that is what i am saying. we are here to reconcile men to God before its too late.
 
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