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netchaplain

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Regeneration is not a change of the old Adamic life, but the introduction of a new: it is the implantation of life of the Last Adam. And this is by the operation of the Holy Spirit, founded upon the accomplished redemption of Christ, and in full keeping with the sovereign will or counsel of the Father. The moment a sinner receives the Savior by faith, he becomes the possessor of a new life, a totally new creation—and the source of the life is the Lord Jesus (Col 3:4); he is born of God, and His child for all eternity.

Nor does the introduction of this new life alter, in the slightest degree, the true, essential character of the old. This rather continues what it is, and is made in no respect better; yes, rather, there is the full display of its evil character in opposition to the new creation. “The flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other” (Gal 5:17). There they are in all their distinctness.

I believe this doctrine of the two natures in the believer is not generally understood; and yet, so long as there is ignorance of it, the mind must be utterly at sea in reference to the true standing and privileges of the child of God. Some there are who think that regeneration is a certain change which the old Adamic life undergoes; and, moreover, that this change is gradual in its operation, until, at length, the whole man becomes transformed.

That this idea is unsound can be proved by various quotations from the New Testament. For example, “The canal mind is enmity against God” (Rom 8:7). How can that which is thus spoken of ever undergo any improvement? The apostle goes on to say, “It is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” If it cannot be subject to the law of God, how can it be improved, how can it undergo any change? Again, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh.” Do what you will with the flesh, and it is flesh all the while.

And Paul does not say, “Ye have improved, or are seeking to improve, ‘the old man,’” but rather, “Ye have put off the old man”* (Col 3:9). Passages might easily be multiplied to prove the unsoundness of the theory with respect to the gradual improvement of the old man—to prove that the old man is dead in sins*, and utterly unrenewable; and, moreover, that the only thing we can do with it is to keep it under our feet by reckoning upon the death and new life that we have in union with our risen Head in the heavens.

If present or future blessedness were made to depend upon even a divine change wrought in our nature, flesh would glory. Though my nature were improved, it would be something of me, and thus God would not have all the glory. But when I am introduced into a new creation, I find it is all of God—designed, matured; developed by the Father Himself—He is the Giver, and I am the receiver.

This is what makes Christianity what it is; and, moreover, distinguishes it from every system of human religion under the sun, whether it be Romanism, or Protestantism, or any other ism whatsoever. Human religion gives the creature a place, more of less; it keeps the bondwoman and her son in the house (Gen 21:10-12); it gives man something whereof to glory in. On the contrary, Christianity excludes the creature from all interference in the work of salvation—casts out the bondwomen and her son, and gives all the glory to Him in Whom alone it is due.

- C H Mackintosh


Poster’s Comment:
*”put off the old man”: not taken off or removed, but avoiding it by progressively not walking in its desires, according to as the Spirit teaches us, that we not only live in Him—but are ever learning to “walk” in Him (Gal 5:25).

*”old man is dead in sins”: Dead in the right to incur guilt, and in the ability to engender dominion. As one becomes born again this old nature is rather enhanced to the believer’s awareness to see more clearly of what it is, which results in seeing more clearly of God’s holiness; “that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful” (Rom 7:13).
 
Amen
Our God gives new He does not repair

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Hold me close my loving savior
Fill this heart to love like You
Lead this life to be like Jesus
it’s all I want to do.
Your will is so precious
Its where I need to be
Glorifying my Savior
for the world to see.

peter
 
Amen
Our God gives new He does not repair

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Hold me close my loving savior
Fill this heart to love like You
Lead this life to be like Jesus
it’s all I want to do.
Your will is so precious
Its where I need to be
Glorifying my Savior
for the world to see.

peter
Hi PH - Thanks for the instructional reply! Amen, everything "new," new Earth, Heaven, etc.

That's a good Nee quote. The Christian possesses "all things that pertain unto life and godliness" (2Pet 1:3), and God causes it to show in us.
 
Brother not trying to instruct, your post said it all. I posted what came to mind while reading your post. I have read many of your post on other sites your relationship with Him is seen through them all.
Thank you
 
Brother not trying to instruct, your post said it all. I posted what came to mind while reading your post. I have read many of your post on other sites your relationship with Him is seen through them all.
Thank you
Thanks, and that's okay because I found your mention about the newness in everything God does instructional!
Thank you too.
 
Regeneration is not a change of the old Adamic life, but the introduction of a new: it is the implantation of life of the Last Adam. And this is by the operation of the Holy Spirit, founded upon the accomplished redemption of Christ, and in full keeping with the sovereign will or counsel of the Father. The moment a sinner receives the Savior by faith, he becomes the possessor of a new life, a totally new creation—and the source of the life is the Lord Jesus (Col 3:4); he is born of God, and His child for all eternity.

The new birth/regeneration occurs when one is water baptized, Jn 3:5; 1 Cor 12:13; Eph 5:26; Titus 3:5 not at the moment one has faith only.

Col 3:9 "Lie not one to another, seeing that YOU have put off the old man with his deeds;"

How do YOU do this work of putting off the old man?

Rom 6:4-6 when YOU choose to obey in submitting to water baptism, that is when the old man of sin is crucified and then rises to walk in newness of life.

1 Cor 6:11 you had yourselves washed
1 Pet 1:22 seeing you have purified your souls
 
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The new birth/regeneration occurs when one is water baptized, Jn 3:5; 1 Cor 12:13; Eph 5:26; Titus 3:5 not at the moment one has faith only.

Col 3:9 "Lie not one to another, seeing that YOU have put off the old man with his deeds;"

How do YOU do this work of putting off the old man?

Rom 6:4-6 when YOU choose to obey in submitting to water baptism, that is when the old man of sin is crucified and then rises to walk in newness of life.

1 Cor 6:11 you had yourselves washed
1 Pet 1:22 seeing you have purified your souls
Hi SB - Appreciate your sincere reply! I still find it too difficult to comprehend that man can instill regeneration through water, and this is why I believe Christ's command to baptize is representation of Him instilling the Spirit in our lives, which occur during a genuine request for salvation.
[QUOTE="Seabass,] How do YOU do this work of putting off the old man?[/QUOTE]
The intention of "put off" in this passage designs the act of avoiding someone, not the removal. Same as putting off someone who wants you to do something.
 
The new birth/regeneration occurs when one is water baptized, Jn 3:5; 1 Cor 12:13; Eph 5:26; Titus 3:5 not at the moment one has faith only.

Col 3:9 "Lie not one to another, seeing that YOU have put off the old man with his deeds;"

How do YOU do this work of putting off the old man?

Rom 6:4-6 when YOU choose to obey in submitting to water baptism, that is when the old man of sin is crucified and then rises to walk in newness of life.

1 Cor 6:11 you had yourselves washed
1 Pet 1:22 seeing you have purified your souls
Hi Seabass, Are you saying that without water baptism you are not saved?

In Christ
Douglas Summers
 
Hi Seabass, Are you saying that without water baptism you are not saved?

In Christ
Douglas Summers
If that were so wouldn't it make Jesus a liar? Explain the thief on the cross.
I always thought the conversation with Nicodemus was a reference natural birth and spiritual birth. "You must be borne of water and of spirit"
My relationship with the Lord was evident in my life long before water baptism


Douglas I understand you question just adding my 2 cents

peter

 
Thanks, and that's okay because I found your mention about the newness in everything God does instructional!
Thank you too.
Your opener drives at the very heart of the Gospel, which is this:

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

So many of the so called 'exercises' of faith are vainly applied to make this present vile body something different than what it really is, a vile body. Paul elaborates on this identical matter in 1 Cor. 15, showing us all the present conditions of our planting in this present life, in this vile body. In this we SEE the planting of the Spiritual Man withIN "the old man."

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

All of these RED ZONE factual conditions do not change UNTIL afterwards, when we are CHANGED and PERMANENTLY BONDED into His Perfection in His Perfect Eternal Body.

In the meantime, we hold this "treasure," His Eternal Seed, in earthen vessels, with ALL of it's inherent current conditions.

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


Which is WHY it is VILE and why we HOPE and WAIT, for our Permanent Change.


Paul exemplified this identical matter, here, in Galatians 4:


29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

We, basically, CARRY, currently, our own persecution in the form of dishonor, corruption and weakness in this dead body, waiting for our change. The "old man" will go down, swinging, in persecutions. This is the command of God, that HIS LIGHT shine from the darkness. we are in fact currently planted in, essentially "in the dark." We only know in part and see in part, and see, as through darkness, because of the current conditions of our planting.


And, from this, arises our groaning and our HOPE.


Romans 8:
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit,

the redemption of our body.
 
If that were so wouldn't it make Jesus a liar? Explain the thief on the cross.
I always thought the conversation with Nicodemus was a reference natural birth and spiritual birth. "You must be borne of water and of spirit"
My relationship with the Lord was evident in my life long before water baptism


Douglas I understand you question just adding my 2 cents

peter

WHEN Jesus spoke to Nicodemus, He was speaking of 'earthly birth.' No person goes to heaven unless and until they are first PLANTED IN THE NATURAL, into this earthly environment.

John 3:
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?




 
So...regeneration is the work of God, but it plays out in the individual believer's life gradually? a
 
Hi Seabass, Are you saying that without water baptism you are not saved?

In Christ
Douglas Summers


Hi.

The bible, not me, says without water baptism one is not saved Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Jn 3:5; 1 Cor 12:13; Eph 5:26; Tts 3:5; Col 2:12-14; Rom 6:3-7; 1 Cor 1:12,13 etc, etc. I can only repeat what the bible says.
Can one be saved without the new birth? No. Since the new birth is water baptism then one cannot be born again without being water baptized.
 
Hi SB - Appreciate your sincere reply! I still find it too difficult to comprehend that man can instill regeneration through water, and this is why I believe Christ's command to baptize is representation of Him instilling the Spirit in our lives, which occur during a genuine request for salvation.

The intention of "put off" in this passage designs the act of avoiding someone, not the removal. Same as putting off someone who wants you to do something.

Hi,

God does the work of removing the body of sin (Col 2:12-14) so that one can then walk in newness of life (Rom 6:4) but God does the work at the point of being water baptized not at the moment of faith only.

My point about Col 3:9 is that YOU are the one that does the work of putting off the old man.
How does one do that? In obedience in submitting to water baptism Rom 6:3-7.
Therefore YOU have a role in your own salvation, to "work out your own salvation" by submitting to water baptism.
 
If that were so wouldn't it make Jesus a liar? Explain the thief on the cross.
I always thought the conversation with Nicodemus was a reference natural birth and spiritual birth. "You must be borne of water and of spirit"
My relationship with the Lord was evident in my life long before water baptism


Douglas I understand you question just adding my 2 cents

peter

The thief on the cross is not an example of NT salvation but he lived under the OT law where there was no new birth, i.e.,, no baptism the name of the Lord for remission of sin (Acts 2:38) for this came into effect some point AFTER the thief died.

1) Rom 10:9,10 NT belief requires one believe in his heart that God 'hath raised" (past tense) Christ from the dead.
2) Rom 6:3-7 NT baptism in a baptism into the death of Christ.
At the time Christ promised the thief paradise, the OT law was still in effect (Heb 9:16,17) Christ had not yet died leaving the OT still in effect at that time and also makes both #1 and #2 above impossible for the thief to do making the thief NOT an example of NT salvation.
 
The significance of water baptism is that it symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and our identification with Him. Brother look at the thief on the cross he believed and was to be in paradise with Jesus and he did not receive water baptism Jesus saved many and He Himself never water baptized anyone.
The best answers you will find will be on your knees and wait for the answer
peter
 
The significance of water baptism is that it symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and our identification with Him. Brother look at the thief on the cross he believed and was to be in paradise with Jesus and he did not receive water baptism Jesus saved many and He Himself never water baptized anyone.
The best answers you will find will be on your knees and wait for the answer
peter
Hi,

I did address the thief on the cross in my previous post (post #15) and gave the reasons why he is not applicable to the debate.

Another thing I could have added to my post #15 is that no verses explicitly states the thief was never baptized making that argument just mere speculation.
 
All are born of water if they were born
Belief In Jesus is the only way


John 3:15 (KJV)
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
 
All are born of water if they were born
Belief In Jesus is the only way


John 3:15 (KJV)
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The physical birth, (corruptible seed) is not part of the new birth, incorruptible birth 1 Pet 1:23 therefore Jesus did NOT have the physical birth in mind in Jn 3:5. Furthermore, why would Jesus say to a full grown man standing in front of him "ye must be physically born to enter the kingdom of heaven"? Would it not be obvious a full grown man is ALREADY physically born?
 
If that were so wouldn't it make Jesus a liar? Explain the thief on the cross.
I always thought the conversation with Nicodemus was a reference natural birth and spiritual birth. "You must be borne of water and of spirit"
My relationship with the Lord was evident in my life long before water baptism


Douglas I understand you question just adding my 2 cents

peter
Hi Faith, I agree. And I agree that true Spiritual Baptism by water has a cleansing of the conscience by the sincere act that happens to the born again believer. I do not believe that baptism in itself is to save, but driven by the new man that we received upon faith, that identifies our new nature which follows after Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, Dying to self and being raised from the dominion of sin as we walk in the newness of life. This newness of life is an act apart from self will, it is an act by the Holy Spirit (Rom. 6: 1-16) The natural man can not understand Spiritual things, and this is Spiritual food.

In Christ
Douglas Summers
 
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