Proper way to read Revelation

Just read it.
No interpretation needed.
If you or I saw what John saw we would write exactly what he did. (other than differences between Greek and your chosen language)

If this is not acceptable to you then you are saying that either John, the Angels, or Jesus is lying.
If "John really meant..." than you are saying John did not write what he saw.
etc.

Revelation... the only book of the Bible that is commanded by Jesus to be written.
Revelation... the only book of the Bible that contains a blessing for reading, hearing and keeping the words of this prophecy.
Revelation... the only book of the Bible that contains a curse for altering the text of the prophecy.

And Rev 1:3 says to keep the words of the prophecy... that mean not to alter the text.
If I ask you to keep my copy of a picutre at your place and you return it to me with an altered image... did you really keep my picture?
Exigesis not Isegesis. I swear that almost no one knows how to do it right.

 

[dwb001]

You claimed the unbelievable account of a woman running away from a flood who was saved by the earth opening up could be. I asked for evidence of this happening (past) and you offered Rev as evidence of the PAST. Nie you say future.

Always a future event.
If you misunderstand something just ask... don't assume.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Just read it.
No interpretation needed.
If you or I saw what John saw we would write exactly what he did. (other than differences between Greek and your chosen language)

If this is not acceptable to you then you are saying that either John, the Angels, or Jesus is lying.
If "John really meant..." than you are saying John did not write what he saw.
etc.

Revelation... the only book of the Bible that is commanded by Jesus to be written.
Revelation... the only book of the Bible that contains a blessing for reading, hearing and keeping the words of this prophecy.
Revelation... the only book of the Bible that contains a curse for altering the text of the prophecy.

And Rev 1:3 says to keep the words of the prophecy... that mean not to alter the text.
If I ask you to keep my copy of a picutre at your place and you return it to me with an altered image... did you really keep my picture?
Exigesis not Isegesis.

Well hallejuah! Amen and amen.

It's a matter of belief, not of argument. A thousand years is a thousand years, not as a thousand years.

Interpretive license to symbolize what is not symbolic, is issued by the devil. And revoked by the Lord.

I swear that almost no one knows how to do it right.

Don't lose hope. There are a few believers that still take Christ at His word.

Rightly dividing the word of truth begins with rightly dividing between what is written, and what is not.

Believe what is written, and test what is not written by what is written.

Neh 8:8So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Exactly.
That sort of thinking leads to Isegesis.
What did I say? Did I stammer? Did I slur my words?
What I said is what I meant.

Exactly True.

Mat 24:35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Just as with Scripture, the vision is the same forever, before, during, and after it's fulfillment. The same Revlation of Jesus Christ given to John on Patmos, is read today, and will be read the same tomorrow, and in the new heaven and earth forever.

If Isegesis is trying to transform prophecy of Scripture to fit withn events of today, then I agree it is false to change the eternal truth of Scripture by present circumstances.

I believe they call it contextual theology. Whether it's changing the righteousness of God to fit with present morality, or the prophecy of Christ to fit with current circumstances.

That's the road to the ungodliness of moral relativism, and the confusion of trying to find prophetic fulfillment in every knook and cranny of daily affairs.

It's the inanity of seeking a meaning in something, that simply is what it is.

 

[RBDERRICK]

If I saw the same vision today that John saw @2000 years ago probably the only way that I would come to writing it just exactly as he did would be if the Holy Spirit directed me to .

Why ? Just maybe John was writing about things that exist in our world today and I would describe them for what they are known to us now.

Is this the old saw of finding helicopters and tanks in Revelation?

If so, then why not just believe the creatures are as reported by eyewitness of John the Apostle.

The point being made is that these things are eye witnessed, not idealised by ignorance.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Incorrect about the only way to write exactly the same thing is if the Holy Spirit were to guide you...

Exactly. The only way to write it the same, is to eyewitness the same things and write them just as accurately.

2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

If John couldn't describe them... then for John to be honest... he would have to say he didn't understand it.

Exactly. Jeremiah saw the rod of an almond tree. What it means if revealed by the Lord, But what he saw was the rod of an almond tree.

The same with everything John saw in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which was given to him to see and write down exactly what he saw.

If John saw a flaming sword in the mouth of Jesus... then that is what he saw. (or are you calling John a liar?)

Exactly again! The challenge made is to question the honesty of what John saw vs what he wrote.

If John saw locusts with mens faces, womens hair, and a scorpion tail... then that is what he saw.
If the Angel showed an Apache attack hellicopter as a locust... then the Angel lied.

Ha! Hallejuah!!! Moder Christians make the same accusation of John, that the great Jewish scholars made of Jesus, that he was some Galilean country bumpkin.

Jhn 7:15And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

It's as if the ancient world didn't know a thing about mechanical engines of war. The Navahos were smarter to descibe a tank as a tortoise, than ironclad horses.

And exactly how can some idiot mistake a single turrent for serveral horses' heads...

The question to ask is why those armies are gathering around Armegeddon to fight with the Lord in the air, while still riding horseback with age-old baggage trains of war?

Anyone stop to think of the impact upon modern sources of electricity, with the shining power of the Lord Himself riding through the air from east to west?

So what is it?
Is what John wrote as it was shown to him... or was he or the Angels or Jesus lying?

A demanding question that refreshes the soul of a believing reader.

 

[RBDERRICK]

In John's mind

Once again the error.

Num 16:28And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.

2 Tim 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The unblief is that all Scripture is given by God to write, not by man to write from his own mind.

was it in his life time ,if so then well ,where is the last part ? Paradise and sin gone and Satan judged?

The challenge is not believing what John saw and wrote, is either what he say, or wrote it inaccurately, which makes untruthful and a lie.

Is it a literal 1000 years or figurative ?

Scripture says a thousand years. Scripture must be changed to say as a thousand years.

Christ gave John to write a thousand years. Men's own minds want it to be written as a thousand years.

The challenge is to believe all the words of the Bible are Scriptures of Christ, or just from the minds of men.

The unstated accusation is that the Revelation of Jesus Christ is made more confusing by readers, that don't take Him at His words.

Afterall, revelation by definition is to uncover mystery, not make more mysterious.

How many ressurection as paul mentions one ,and Jesus only one and John has two ,the dead live not again
Until after a thousand years .

Once we believe what it written, then we can give the sense of it.

One resurrection is prophesied in Scripture, until the first resurrection is prophesied in Scripture, with another after a thousand years.

Simple. Faith doesn't say either or and pit Scripture against Scripture. Faith believes what's written, never contradicts itself.

Until Rev 20, we believe there is one resurrection of the dead unto everlasting life or condemnation. With Rev 20 we now believe there is a first blessed resurrection, followed later by a resurrection unto everlasting life or condemnation.

Your premise that you need not any other book in the bible to reference .Amy prophecy ,vision by John can't contradict the others visions or words .

I don't see that premise anywhere. It must be from someone's own mind, that distorts an unwelcome premise into something obviously ignorant and foolish.

The premise is simple: Every vision in the Bible, especially the Revelation of Jesus Christ, is written exactly as seen, and means exactly what it says.

A sword is seen proceeding out of the resurrected Lord's mouth on Patmos and at His coming again, and a thousand years is exactly how long He will reign upon the earth with a rod of iron.

 

[RBDERRICK]

What don't we know as a whole?

Some believers try to include every believer in what they themselves do or don't know.

They somehow think if no one esle knows, then it must be good not to know.

Don't amil's look at Revelation as metaphor for the most part?

At least the parts they don't agree with, in order to remain amil.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I would trust that Jesus would instruct His Angels to communicate with John exactly what He wanted communicated.
What does it matter what John believed about Revelation... Did he record it accurately? John's views are of no import as Revelation is a direct vision from Jesus...

My lord. Like you, I was beginning to think there is no other believer on the planet with such common sense faith in Scriptures of God.

Psa 45:1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

Scripture is what God says by His prophets and apostles, that are just holy pens in His hands. It doesn't matter what the pen thinks about what is written. The same as the vessel in the hands of the potter.

Scripture is not what the prophets and apostle think and believe, but exactly what God says is so.

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The prophets didn't know the answers to everything they wrote. John no doubt read Revelation many times for his own understanding. After recording exactly what the Lord gave Him, John no doubt became one of the blessed reading and keeping those things written therein by his own hand.

2 Peter 3:16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

All the apostles including Paul read the Scriptures given them by God, to understand and do. And they too thought it was hard at times, but refused to change any Scripture to make it smoother to digest and believe.

Act 14:15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Jas 5:17Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

Literal or figurative would be a silly question if you trust John not to be lying.

Preach it. Literal and figurative is obvious by the writing. Those who question the literal as being figurative, don't like the literal writing.

1 Tim 6:3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

Other passages in the Bible are open to interpretation... Not so with Revelation. If you trust the accuracy of the Word.

I.e. The Revelation of Jesus Christ given to us His servants, is the uncovering of all prophetic mysteries, not the covering of sure prophecy with even more mystery.

2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

The coming millenial reign of the Lord is the most sure and meaningful event since His death, burial, and resurrection of jesus Christ. And yet it is made into just another fabulous but disenguous tale, by them that don't believe all that Scripture has prophesied of it.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Some things remain the same even among sincere believers.

Maybe Jesus needed to correct some of the ways the early Church was mis-applying what Paul and the others wrote... maybe.

This is for certain. Christ used Paul, Peter, and John to correct the rising heresies among His churches.

Christ used James to just lay it out exactly as it is, on how to live by His faith. And Christ used Jude to condemn them that live some other way by their own faith alone, and call themselves brethren of the Lord.

 

[RBDERRICK]

No ,if I were to be premil ,Jesus isn't coming to judge all but to simply redeem isreal and set up another church and saved people and yet Jesus says in no parables that at all.

Only that he is coming back and all must believed or be damned .

Amil is problematic but I also don't take the battles on horses on the earth as literal.


Isreal so decimated that war horses and battles of that and yet the ac controls all the world with his mark and can't negate buying .?

I don't take armegeddon as a local event as logically you would have too .

Read: I don't believe what's written is true.

Or, not always. It's a matter of personal faith to pick and choose for ourselves what Scriptures to believe or not...

Sola Scriptura is not just believing only the Bible is the written words of God. But also that all His words are Scripture and true as written.

There is where Scripture of God warns not to argue with someone on any of His Scriptures, if they don't believe all Scripture is the truth given by Him.

Afterall, the impartial believer is arguing from consistency of all things written, while the partial believer is changing or negating things written at will.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Revelation is the conclusion of the whole bible, like the epilogue of a long book series or the finale of a long tv series. You can read it as a standalone book, but you're not gonna understand it as a standalone book. When John wrote it he assumed his readers already familiar with the references, what matters is not "how" you read it, but whether you've read the previous books, especially the OT prophecies.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Revelation is the conclusion of the whole bible, like the epilogue of a long book series or the finale of a long tv series. You can read it as a standalone book, but you're not gonna understand it as a standalone book. When John wrote it he assumed his readers already familiar with the references, what matters is not "how" you read it, but whether you've read the previous books, especially the OT prophecies.

Excellent. I liken it to the final pieces of the puzzle, that also reveal how the rest of the pieces should be placed in order.

All doctrine and prophecy of Christ is known from all Scriptures taken together, which when done properly in order, reveal all the truth of God and Jesus Christ made known to man on earth.