Proving pre-trib rapture is false, along with a question.

[Kathi]

What does a Christian need to do to be ready?

Truly believe in Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree.
But I thought you said that the 70th week was still in the future?

Daniels first half of the 70 weeks:
First Advent of Messiah: From rebuilding the Temple to Messiah come
Daniels 69 weeks are 483 Solar years (Daniel 9:25),
7 weeks of years was 49 years rebuilding Jerusalem around 457B.C. (Ezra 7:11-26; 9:9)
62 weeks of years was the period of time leading up to Messiah the Prince in the beginning of his ministry in 27A.D. up to the crucifixion in 31A.D., (Daniel 9:26)

From the cross to the second advent of Messiah was a prophetic gap being the present Church age (Gentiles) which was a mystery not revealed to Daniel, Ephesians 3:4-10

Daniel's second half of the 70th week
The second advent of Messiah: From the time of Christ ministry to the cross
7 Lunar years or of great tribulations as described in (Daniel 7:13,14; 9:26,27; 12:1; Matthew Chapter 24). A covenant between Israel and the one who is to come (son of perdition)

 

[for_his_glory]

Careful friend, may I suggest you read 2 Pet 2:3, 4, also, here's something else you might want to consider, Moses wasn't allowed to enter the Promised Land becasue he struck the Rock twice, Paul tells us that Rock was/is Christ, the Father struck His Son once at Calvary, since we are taught we are in Christ and if we are in the Trib when Father strikes the planet, then He will be guilty of striking the Rock, His Son, twice, ...what's he gonna say to Moses when Moses calls foul, you are not Just, ...and that would set a president for the devil to use to escape his condemnation, ...just saying.

Blessings

Karl you need to read further down to vs. 9 that God will deliver us from temptations. What temptations is He talking about if we are to go in a quiet secret Rapture before some 7 year great tribulation. Ask those living in other countries that are even now going through much tribulation and dying a martyrs death for their belief in Christ and will be coming to our shores here in America soon. America is not exempt to all of that which will come before the great and terrible day of the Lord. What about the mark of the beast in Rev 13, who will be here to denounce Christ and take this mark if we are out of here. What would be the purpose of anything described in all of Rev if we are gone first. Why would God prolong devastation here on earth before ushering down the new heaven and New Jerusalem if we are taken out before the proverbial crap hits the fan.

 

[Eugene]

How is this any different than what every Christian needs to do to be saved today, tomorrow, or at anytime? We hold fast to our faith in Christ.

It's evident that Thyatira wasn't walking the walk as it were: Rev 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee . ." And because they aren't repenting Jesus is going to cast them into (Not "A", or "The") GREAT TRIBULATION. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

To me, I don't see anything attached to the context of this that suggests the loss of Thyatira's salvation as to their standing as children of God, but refers to their rewards of loss of thereof; that's the context of Revelation Chapters Two & Three. In other words, do this and receive a crown, or do that which I told you to repent of and receive the consequence.

The evidence?
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[for_his_glory]

What does a Christian need to do to be ready?

Whatever the timing of Christ return is it's held in Gods hands as no man knows when it will happen, not even Jesus will know until God sends Him, Matthew 24:36,37, but we are given signs to watch for His return. What does a Christian need to be ready: faith, endurance, patience.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

[for_his_glory]

Ya know, there are so many here that have spent time with our Lord, I can't wait to get to Heaven and meet you all, I love to just hang with you, and I'm constantly looking to be edified by what a brother or sister will share that the Lord has revealed to them, ...what I'm wondering is why do we get caught up in these subjects, posted by someone to evidently start a controversy and fight, and then the OP disappears and here we are behaving like children for x number of pages?

Why can't we build up rather than tear down, for me it's what Jesus taught us, the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy, I think we need more discernment as to the reason why a thread is started.

Blessings

Karl, as a Christian we should never argue or fight amongst ourselves over the word of God no matter what the topic is. We first need to show love and compassion towards each other and know that everyone is not on the same level of learning which comes only by the Holy Spirit. This is suppose to be Christian forum where we share and discuss the word of God together in hopes we will learn something new as we will never exhaust the word of God. Scriptural support is needed for our learning as we take those scriptures that are given and study them for ourselves and allow the Holy Spirit to discern truth from error, 1John 4:1-6. We can only share what we believe, but can not expect everyone to believe as we do, but just put it out there and let it up to others to seek out truth as they are guided by the Holy Spirit. I am challenged by others to dig even deeper into the word when I have no understanding of what they are speaking as it's up to each one of us to be accountable before the Lord for that of our actions and what we have learned and taught others.

First and foremost we are to walk in love and longsuffering towards each other as God does to help lift up and edify everyone, but you will always have those that will not be pleasing to the Lord within their own interpretations as at times the discussions can become heated and in the heat of the moment evil proceeds out of the mouth. We have to always ask ourselves, are we that example of Christ to the world that we are allowing the light of Christ shine through us.

 

[jasonc]

Darby and scofield get accused of starting the idea of a pre trib and it is used a proof that the idea is new. I do not care if it was the catholics, an unbeliever,a believer, a freak,a false teacher or a clown. The idea of a pre trib rapture was around before, way before the 1800's. It is intellectually and historically dishonest to say that the pre trib theory came about in the 1800's.

oh, im sure that grace wasn't new either but darby and some in the church say grace didn't exist until the cross. I was taugh that.

Yes, it is. There's enough that most of us don't know, to make another whole world.

yup the more I think I know, I don't. almost back to the drawing board with this new info. I don't think it will make me become a futurist but it will give some things to ponder.

 

[jasonc]

Where does it say that plainly...

In either a private, personal study with the Holy Spirit, or in a Bible Study where the Holy Spirit is teaching through the empowering of the gift of teaching,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27

That is the best answer I can give you.

I don't know what scholfiedism is.

Blessings

i know the answer, I was asking that person. I have been taught lot here, private study and in church. I come from an odd background that at times did and still does force me to check the church doctrine.

 

[Malachi]

I think we need more discernment as to the reason why a thread is started.

Well said, and Amen. Actually, Christians need more discernment in every aspect of their lives, especially when it comes to discerning the spirits and false doctrine, false teachers, false bibles, etc. We all need to pray that all believers everywhere will receive the spirit of wisdom, discernment, and prudence in every aspect of their lives. "Discerning of spirits" is a spiritual gift (1 Cor 12:10) God exhorts us to "desire spiritual gifts" (1 Cor 14:1).

 

[jasonc]

ok, some are going to disagree on eschatology, its been debated and wont go away. Im sure that some creationists that wouldn't enter a church with a theistic evolutionist believer. Im not that way. I would disagree but they are still my brother. the same can be said about eschatology

 

[Karl]

Karl you need to read further down to vs. 9 that God will deliver us from temptations.

My bad dear sister, I'm almost blind, hopefully the operation this Friday will correct one eye, it's 2 Pet 3:3 ,4

What temptations is He talking about if we are to go in a quiet secret Rapture before some 7 year great tribulation.

I guarantee it won't be quiet and it won't be secret, the majority of the believers are trustworthy, diligent, hard workers and many have positions of great responsibility, ...when suddenly the world loses a vital part of it's work force it will upset the apple cart, and just like they searched for Enoch, so will they search for us, and...., this isn't a thus saith the Lord, but personally, I believe the character of my Father is one that won't leave children under the age of accountability here either to suffer His wrath and judgement, Jon 4:11 imagine, muslim babies, buddhist babies, mormon babies, jw babies, all disappear (which explains who can/will be saved during the Trib if those that have heard the Gospel but didn't receive the love of the Truth are given a reprobate mind so that they can't believe 2 Thess 2:10-12), .....put yourself in their place, what would you do if you lost your child or children......, at the same time as your Christian friends disappeared, ...and that will probably will be the determining factor to unite all of the different religions and sects together to follow and worship the AC, which we are told his appearing will be with all power, signs and lying wonders, do you think he won't promise those that lost their children he will bring them back if they will follow him?

Ask those living in other countries that are even now going through much tribulation and dying a martyrs death for their belief in Christ and will be coming to our shores here in America soon. America is not exempt to all of that which will come before the great and terrible day of the Lord. What about the mark of the beast in Rev 13, who will be here to denounce Christ and take this mark if we are out of here.

All of the billions left behind.

What would be the purpose of anything described in all of Rev if we are gone first.

1. To condemn a Christ rejecting world,
2. to allow satan his day of infamy,
3. to wake up His people Israel Rom 11:26


Why would God prolong devastation here on earth before ushering down the new heaven and New Jerusalem if we are taken out before the proverbial crap hits the fan.

To allow for the seventh and final dispensation to run it's course and to complete the last week of His 70 week prophecy concerning Israel.

 

[Karl]

Karl, as a Christian we should never argue or fight amongst ourselves over the word of God no matter what the topic is. We first need to show love and compassion towards each other and know that everyone is not on the same level of learning which comes only by the Holy Spirit. This is suppose to be Christian forum where we share and discuss the word of God together in hopes we will learn something new as we will never exhaust the word of God. Scriptural support is needed for our learning as we take those scriptures that are given and study them for ourselves and allow the Holy Spirit to discern truth from error, 1John 4:1-6. We can only share what we believe, but can not expect everyone to believe as we do, but just put it out there and let it up to others to seek out truth as they are guided by the Holy Spirit. I am challenged by others to dig even deeper into the word when I have no understanding of what they are speaking as it's up to each one of us to be accountable before the Lord for that of our actions and what we have learned and taught others.

First and foremost we are to walk in love and longsuffering towards each other as God does to help lift up and edify everyone, but you will always have those that will not be pleasing to the Lord within their own interpretations as at times the discussions can become heated and in the heat of the moment evil proceeds out of the mouth. We have to always ask ourselves, are we that example of Christ to the world that we are allowing the light of Christ shine through us.

I'm with ya sis on what you are saying, my point is we need discernment to know if the thread is just to stir the pot or a legit question, there's lots of baloney being tossed out.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm with ya sis on what you are saying, my point is we need discernment to know if the thread is just to stir the pot or a legit question, there's lots of baloney being tossed out.

We can always turn whatever the starting intent of the OP is into a good discussion even though they do not reply, but maybe they just sit back an learn from the discussions without replying back. Many do like to stir the pot and we know who is behind that and we give him no place unless we argue and fight amongst us then he sits there clapping his hands and enjoys seeing us tear each other apart.

 

[for_his_glory]

Karl you are in my prayers and I ask Gods hands to be used through the surgeons hands and you will have full vision once again, in the name of Jesus I pray, amen to God who gets all the glory

 

[Kathi]

Whatever the timing of Christ return is it's held in Gods hands as no man knows when it will happen, not even Jesus will know until God sends Him, Matthew 24:36,37, but we are given signs to watch for His return. What does a Christian need to be ready: faith, endurance, patience.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Since Jesus is sitting on the throne now I think He knows the timing.

 

[Karl]

Karl you are in my prayers and I ask Gods hands to be used through the surgeons hands and you will have full vision once again, in the name of Jesus I pray, amen to God who gets all the glory

Thank you sister, I covet your prayers, this problem is because of another incompetent eye doctor, I've lived in this condition for several years, having lost all confidence in the eye doctors here, ...but now Father has given me peace, I feel the Lord has His hand in this, my question and prayer to Father was/is, "how can I read Your word and have communion with You if you allow this in my life?"

 

[for_his_glory]

Karl thank you for your correction of 2Peter as I couldn't figure out what you were talking about. Now I understand what you were saying.

All the billions that will be left behind are not going to care if they take the mark as they have not Christ found in them and will certainly follow that of the son of perdition for their well being not knowing who they are actually bowing down to as they have made themselves ready for damnation for rejecting Christ.

God does save a remnant out of Israel, not the nation, but the man of God that believe Christ is the true Messiah.

I believe in a Rapture of the Church as us being the Bride of Christ being caught up to meet Him in the Clouds, but also believe we will go through everything of Revelation up to the harvest jusdgment in capter 14 right before the vial judgments begin.

 

[for_his_glory]

Since Jesus is sitting on the throne now I think He knows the timing.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God He is not sitting on His own throne as of yet.Jesus will take His literal throne in that time of the New Jerusalem that will be ushered down when all is completed and the the old heaven (atmosphere) and old earth are made renewed again in order for the New Jerusalem to be ushered down. Jesus being that tabernacle mention in Rev 21:3 will take His seat on His throne in the New Jerusalem and we shall be His people and God also will be with us.

 

[followeryeshua]

Careful friend, may I suggest you read 2 Pet 2:3, 4, also, here's something else you might want to consider, Moses wasn't allowed to enter the Promised Land becasue he struck the Rock twice, Paul tells us that Rock was/is Christ, the Father struck His Son once at Calvary, since we are taught we are in Christ and if we are in the Trib when Father strikes the planet, then He will be guilty of striking the Rock, His Son, twice, ...what's he gonna say to Moses when Moses calls foul, you are not Just, ...and that would set a president for the devil to use to escape his condemnation, ...just saying.

Blessings

I am being careful. I'm just speaking the truth.

 

[Deborah13]

Truly believe in Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God.

Sometimes the simple answer is the best answer, I agree with you that is what a Christian believes.

It's evident that Thyatira wasn't walking the walk as it were: Rev 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee . ." And because they aren't repenting Jesus is going to cast them into (Not "A", or "The") GREAT TRIBULATION. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

To me, I don't see anything attached to the context of this that suggests the loss of Thyatira's salvation as to their standing as children of God, but refers to their rewards of loss of thereof; that's the context of Revelation Chapters Two & Three. In other words, do this and receive a crown, or do that which I told you to repent of and receive the consequence.

The evidence?
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

I agree, I don't see a loss of salvation either. Thanks, Brother Eugene.

Whatever the timing of Christ return is it's held in Gods hands as no man knows when it will happen, not even Jesus will know until God sends Him, Matthew 24:36,37, but we are given signs to watch for His return. What does a Christian need to be ready: faith, endurance, patience.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Your list of what a Christian needs, I agree with. Thank you for this thought.

My question was what does a Christian need to Do?
If one is a Christian then they are ready. It's not like one needs to be watching for the bus to come or they might miss it. :wink