Proving pre-trib rapture is false, along with a question.

[reba]

PLAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY nice before i start deleting post... IT is ok to NOT have the same view... IT is just not right to close a thread .. i would rather stop the member or members.

 

[jasonc]

complying reba, it takes two to start and finish.the history of the trib and so forth and how god hasn't intervened much to correct that shows he really doesn't want us to know it, just live what Is required. the more I think I know the less I do.

ask hitch to send you that link tween cis and jewish Zionists paying him. I wish to read that.

 

[for_his_glory]

What does you bible say in the book of Mark 16: verses 9-20?

tob

Hi tob,
can you elaborate as to what this has to do with what we are discussing? I'm not following the correlation. Thanks

 

[jasonc]

sometimes ask for the stuff. man I wish I didn't. reba knows. ov vey. I did get good links and well post them after I read them first and in another thread.

 

[turnorburn]

Hi tob,
can you elaborate as to what this has to do with what we are discussing? I'm not following the correlation. Thanks

O.k. but first what does your bible say?

tob

 

[for_his_glory]

What I see in reading those scriptures is that even when Christ was present in front of them they did not believe, just like many that have the word in front of them, but don't believe what it says.

 

[turnorburn]

That's true, without those verses proof of the resurrection is in question would you agree, does your bible contain those verses 9-20?

tob

 

[for_his_glory]

Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Mar 16:10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
Mar 16:11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
Mar 16:12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
Mar 16:13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The disciples that followed Jesus when He walked the earth only thought Him to be a prophet/teacher. It wasn't until Christ revealed himself to them after he rose from the grave that they believed he truly was the son of God. Jesus said I will send you another comforter who will teach you all things and bring those things back to your remembrance. Some people just haven't allowed the Holy Spirit teach them, but would rather have man teach them thinking those teachers know truth, but yet never search out truth for themselves by allowing the Holy Spirit teach them. Been there, done that, but never again.

 

[gr8grace3]

Darby and scofield get accused of starting the idea of a pre trib and it is used a proof that the idea is new. I do not care if it was the catholics, an unbeliever,a believer, a freak,a false teacher or a clown. The idea of a pre trib rapture was around before, way before the 1800's. It is intellectually and historically dishonest to say that the pre trib theory came about in the 1800's.

 

[Eugene]

The background for the 24 elders is found in 1 Chronicles 24:7-19; 25:6-31; and 26:12-19. In chapter 24, the Levitical priesthood is divided into 24 divisions, according to the schedule of their service: they were officials of the sanctuary and of the house of God. In Chapter 25, the Levitical priests are further divided into 24 divisions, responsible for the worship of the sanctuary, and in particular the music of that worship. In Chapter 26, the Levitical priests are again divided into 24 gatekeepers for the house of God.

They were responsible for worship, in particular for the music in worship. They were also to stand as the gatekeepers of the house of God. As it was with the twenty-four divisions of the priests in the book of Chronicles, so it is with the twenty-four elders in the book of Revelation. They are responsible for worship, in particular for the music in worship; they also stand as the gatekeepers of the house of God.

The twenty-four elders, then, are elders--elders in the heavenly sanctuary of God--who are responsible for worship, for the music of worship, and as such they stand as the gatekeepers of the house of God.

Scripture has identified the twenty-four elders that surround the throne as elders, but what is the significance of those elders around the throne? Why are they there? The answer is that the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4:4; 5:6 are symbolic of the ruling authority in the church. There is a correspondence between the twenty-four elders above and the office of elder below. This means that the government of the church is patterned after heaven itself. As there are elders in heaven above, so there are elders on earth below.

The seven Spirits are wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, power and fear (respect) of the Lord. The four beasts represent that of the four Gospels being taught in the governing Church here on Earth that is patterned after heaven.

Dear Sister for_his_glory, thanks for such a detailed response, but as with other scripture from the Old Testament they are but examples of things future (1 Cor 10:11), and the very things you bring forth might well be part of the 24 elders (Rev 4:4) and 4 living ones (Rev 4:6) present with Jesus when He takes His own throne (Rev 4:2). Notice one revelation of this fact is Rev 5:10, ”And hast made us unto our God kings and priests.”

Now let’s progress further as to the context of these 24 elders and 4 beasts of living ones of Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6. First of all they are of the church, not Israel of old. They have earned a proximity of being round about & in the midst of the throne, and they are made kings and priests versus being before the throne as servants such as the great multitude of Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple.

Just something to get you thinking of as a possibility. There are seven different scenarios presented of the church in Revelation Chapters Two & Three, and only two (Smyrna of Rev 2:10 & Philadelphia of Rev 3:10-11) are purported to have had crowns. Smyrna remained faithful unto death (Elders), and Philadelphia patiently keeps the word of God, are kept from the temptation to come upon all the world, and represent those of that remain alive until Jesus comes in the air for them of 1 Thes 4:17.

Let’s see how this is received before I go further.

 

[Kathi]

I don't understand the point of this thread.I would not post a thread "Proving the post-trib wrong".Please share with me why we need this kind of segregation among a Christian message board.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Eugene, It's getting late and i need to go to bed. I will pick this up tomorrow when my brain has had some rest. Been in here discussing this topic for almost six hours, but will definitely be back refreshed tomorrow. God bless and have a good night.

 

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene, It's getting late and i need to go to bed. I will pick this up tomorrow when my brain has had some rest. Been in here discussing this topic for almost six hours, but will definitely be back refreshed tomorrow. God bless and have a good night.

Thanks Dear Sister for_his_glory. Pre-trib or not we can trust our Father to do that which is always for our good in Christ Jesus. Have a blessed rest.

 

[Malachi]

It is intellectually and historically dishonest to say that the pre trib theory came about in the 1800's.

I fully agree. That is called ad hominem attacks rather then a discussion based upon Scripture, and is designed to denigrate very capable Christians who search the Scriptures. We know that as early as the 2nd century A.D. the pre-tribulation rapture was being taught by Irenaeus.

Even if none of these individuals had ever existed, we would have needed to look at Jn 14:1-4 and ask ourselves "How does this tie in with 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Cor 15:51-56; 1 Jn 3:1-3, and other related passages?". Scripture interprets Scripture and that is a fundamental axiom. Christ comes FOR His saints at the Rapture, and comes WITH His saints at the Revelation. This is clear from Scripture.

As mentioned earlier, the Antichrist (Satan Incarnate) cannot take absolute (but temporary) control of this world until the Church and the Holy Spirit are "taken out of the way" (2 Thess 2:7). And the Great Tribulation cannot occur until the Antichrist (the Beast of Revelation) sets up the Abomination of Desolation in the Temple at Jerusalem (Mt 24:15-22; 2 Thess 2:1-12; Rev 13:1-18). Thus there is a progressive sequence of events.

The doctrine of the Rapture is meant to be A COMFORTING DOCTRINE (1 Thess 5:18; 1 Cor 15:58). Because it is so, believers are to be (1) steadfast, (2) immovable, and (3) always abounding in the work of the Lord.

 

[Deborah13]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

These verses shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill the law through the cross.

I agree.
But I thought you said that the 70th week was still in the future?

 

[reba]

I don't understand the point of this thread.I would not post a thread "Proving the post-trib wrong".Please share with me why we need this kind of segregation among a Christian message board.

This is a discussion forum... so members can discuss... threads that say.. yes ...amen you got it... right on.. dont discuss or last long... Discussion and differences of opinion dont have to segregate...

if one disagrees with another about the color of the sky does not mean they would disagree with that same person about the color of grass..

.

 

[Kathi]

This is a discussion forum... so members can discuss... threads that say.. yes ...amen you got it... right on.. dont discuss or last long... Discussion and differences of opinion dont have to segregate...

if one disagrees with another about the color of the sky does not mean they would disagree with that same person about the color of grass..

.

Agreeing to disagree is fine.But when someone gets angry that is not ok or if someone thinks their view is the only view.

 

[reba]

that is why we have these

 

[Kathi]

that is why we have these

 

[Karl]

uhm then if john was represented as the church where does it say that plainly? john also was told to write to those others, and he also had to know and understand that vision as best as he could. btw the church didn't teach scholfiedism until well uncle cy came along.

Where does it say that plainly...

In either a private, personal study with the Holy Spirit, or in a Bible Study where the Holy Spirit is teaching through the empowering of the gift of teaching,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27

That is the best answer I can give you.

I don't know what scholfiedism is.

Blessings