Proving pre-trib rapture is false, along with a question.

[Kathi]

 

[reba]

Karl

I don't know what scholfiedism is.

1. Cyrus Ingerson Scofield was an American theologian, minister, and writer whose best-selling annotated Bible popularized futurism and dispensationalism among fundamentalist Christians. Wikipedia

 

[followeryeshua]

The rapture is imminent.Nothing more needs to happen for it to occur.It could happen in the next second,next minute anytime.We will not witness the 7 year tribulation.

Well, you guys been saying that for long time now. We are still here. Sorry tell you this. We will go through the 7 year tribulation.

 

[Karl]

Thanks reba, amazing how much I don't know, ...or have missed out on.

Blessings

 

[Karl]

Well, you guys been saying that for long time now. We are still here. Sorry tell you this. We will go through the 7 year tribulation.

Careful friend, may I suggest you read 2 Pet 2:3, 4, also, here's something else you might want to consider, Moses wasn't allowed to enter the Promised Land becasue he struck the Rock twice, Paul tells us that Rock was/is Christ, the Father struck His Son once at Calvary, since we are taught we are in Christ and if we are in the Trib when Father strikes the planet, then He will be guilty of striking the Rock, His Son, twice, ...what's he gonna say to Moses when Moses calls foul, you are not Just, ...and that would set a president for the devil to use to escape his condemnation, ...just saying.

Blessings

 

[Kathi]

Well, you guys been saying that for long time now. We are still here. Sorry tell you this. We will go through the 7 year tribulation.

Everyone has a different idea of when the rapture will happen.But whatever your belief is you need to be ready.

 

[n2thelight]

Why do people have trouble with the word"the"as in the great tribulation.....It's simply a tribulation unlike any other...Christ said there would be great tribulation saying" the" to me is just like saying "this" tribulation will be like non other......Or could we not say greater?

again,what's the problem???

 

[n2thelight]

It's call great for the fact it's the only time since the garden that satan will be here among men,live and in person....In other words,this great tribulation is all about deception,that being satan pretending to be Christ...

Men have died horrible deaths throughout history,and what did Christ say...Fear not those who kill the body,that verse should tell you that this great trib,is not about death.......

It should also tell you that all alive at that time,will go through it,saint and sinner alike

For as it is written

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

This false pretrib rapture doctrine,would not be the end...The end is at His 2nd coming,the start of the milennium.........

 

[n2thelight]

Of all the generations that have lived on earth, to the creation of mankind, there is one generation that will be tested and tried like none other. My dear friend, you are living in that generation. That generation's starting point was at the establishment of the tiny nation of "Israel" on May 15, 1948. Then we saw the Jews (both good and bad figs) returning to Palestine from all nations of the earth.

The reason for such attention to this generation is that Satan and the entire host of fallen angels in heaven will be thrown out of heaven [see Revelation 12:7-10] by Michael. The place they will go to is right here on earth. During Satan's rule on earth, most of the church world today are taught that it will be a time of killing, death, war, disease, famine, and any other hideous things you could possibly imagine. They believe strange stinging insects, like scorpions, will be released and sickness will be running wild.

 

[Willie T]

Thanks reba, amazing how much I don't know, ...or have missed out on.

Blessings

Yes, it is. There's enough that most of us don't know, to make another whole world.

 

[Deborah13]

Everyone has a different idea of when the rapture will happen.But whatever your belief is you need to be ready.

What does a Christian need to do to be ready?

 

[reba]

Why do people have trouble with the word"the"as in the great tribulation.....It's simply a tribulation unlike any other...Christ said there would be great tribulation saying" the" to me is just like saying "this" tribulation will be like non other......Or could we not say greater?

again,what's the problem???

Adding the word THE changes the meaning of the phrase.....Jesus said 'great tribulation'
Down the lines of people saying what 'the antichrist' when the scriptures do not single out one person to be 'the antichrist'. There is no mention of antichrist in The Revelation of Jesus Christ..

 

[Deborah13]

Of all the generations that have lived on earth, to the creation of mankind, there is one generation that will be tested and tried like none other. My dear friend, you are living in that generation. That generation's starting point was at the establishment of the tiny nation of "Israel" on May 15, 1948. Then we saw the Jews (both good and bad figs) returning to Palestine from all nations of the earth.

Correct me if I am mistaken but the scripture this 'fig tree budding' belief about Israel in 1948 is taken from is....
Mat 24:32 `And from the fig-tree learn ye the simile: When already its branch may have become tender, and the leaves it may put forth, ye know that summer is nigh,

Luk 21:29 And he spake a simile to them: `See the fig-tree, and all the trees,
Luk 21:30 when they may now cast forth, having seen, of yourselves ye know that now is the summer nigh;

So if the State of Israel, is the fig tree budding, Who are 'all the trees' also mentioned that are budding? Who are the other states, countries, whatever that are budding? We can't just ignore that phrase in the verse and pretend that it is not there.

 

[Eugene]

What does a Christian need to do to be ready?

Hi Sister Deborah13, as a warning of the ongoing judgment of the church (Judgment begins at the church of God) in Revelation Chapters Two & Three, a distinct warning is given this Thyatira assembly.

Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

 

[Karl]

Ya know, there are so many here that have spent time with our Lord, I can't wait to get to Heaven and meet you all, I love to just hang with you, and I'm constantly looking to be edified by what a brother or sister will share that the Lord has revealed to them, ...what I'm wondering is why do we get caught up in these subjects, posted by someone to evidently start a controversy and fight, and then the OP disappears and here we are behaving like children for x number of pages?

Why can't we build up rather than tear down, for me it's what Jesus taught us, the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy, I think we need more discernment as to the reason why a thread is started.

Blessings

 

[Deborah13]

Why do people have trouble with the word"the"as in the great tribulation.....It's simply a tribulation unlike any other...Christ said there would be great tribulation saying" the" to me is just like saying "this" tribulation will be like non other......Or could we not say greater?

again,what's the problem???

Even the NASB, doesn't say 'the', it says 'a' great tribulation.
The problem with 'the' is that it makes it sound like a pronoun rather than an adjective followed by a noun. It becomes 'The Great Tribulation'.
Noah's Flood, can be a pronoun because it was a one time event that is identified with Noah. Certainly it caused great tribulation among those living at that time.

So when we identify a great tribulation spoken of in Matthew, Mark, and Luke we have to believe that words of Jesus when He identified it with certain statements. Such as 'this generation' and that there were some people who were standing there in front of Him 'who would be alive' to see it happen.

 

[reba]

WOW thanks Deborah13 that is what i did not have the words to say...

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Sister Deborah13, as a warning of the ongoing judgment of the church (Judgment begins at the church of God) in Revelation Chapters Two & Three, a distinct warning is given this Thyatira assembly.

Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

How is this any different than what every Christian needs to do to be saved today, tomorrow, or at anytime? We hold fast to our faith in Christ.

 

[Deborah13]

WOW thanks Deborah13 that is what i did not have the words to say...

Glad I could be of service.

 

[for_his_glory]

Dear Sister for_his_glory, thanks for such a detailed response, but as with other scripture from the Old Testament they are but examples of things future (1 Cor 10:11), and the very things you bring forth might well be part of the 24 elders (Rev 4:4) and 4 living ones (Rev 4:6) present with Jesus when He takes His own throne (Rev 4:2). Notice one revelation of this fact is Rev 5:10, ”And hast made us unto our God kings and priests.”

Now let’s progress further as to the context of these 24 elders and 4 beasts of living ones of Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6. First of all they are of the church, not Israel of old. They have earned a proximity of being round about & in the midst of the throne, and they are made kings and priests versus being before the throne as servants such as the great multitude of Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple.

Just something to get you thinking of as a possibility. There are seven different scenarios presented of the church in Revelation Chapters Two & Three, and only two (Smyrna of Rev 2:10 & Philadelphia of Rev 3:10-11) are purported to have had crowns. Smyrna remained faithful unto death (Elders), and Philadelphia patiently keeps the word of God, are kept from the temptation to come upon all the world, and represent those of that remain alive until Jesus comes in the air for them of 1 Thes 4:17.

Let’s see how this is received before I go further.

There is much symbolism of the literal within the seven Churches of Rev 2-3 and the 24 elders of Rev 4:6; 5:6 as both the Church and the twenty-four elders are symbolic of the heavenly and literal governing ruling authority of the Church here on earth being the true Bride of Christ (we who are Spiritually born again) as the Church is governed by God through following the seven spirits they/we are given, Isaiah 11:2.

The Church (we) is patterned after those things from above and not the things of here on earth, Colossians 3:1-4. Smyrna and Philadelphia are also symbolic in the literal as God instructs them (us) as what is spoken in Rev 2:10, 11; 3:8 that we fear not that which has to come before the return of Christ and never deny His name no matter what we may face in the physical.