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Proving pre-trib rapture is false, along with a question.

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Kathi said:
OH BOY....I am sorry for my false claim.I thought you were Pre-trib and I made a big deal about it.
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Hi Kathi, and good afternoon. Well, I wasn't really anything in regards to the timeline of the rapture. But Rev 20:4-6 convinced me otherwise. :)
 
DRS81 said:
Sawwry. :sad
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I just kept going on and on about how nice it was to have a pre-trib believer among me on this board... That would have been totally cool with me if you would have told me you were mid-trib.But then again I like honesty.And I will stay on the end-times forum if people will respect my view.They do not have to agree with it.But please do not point a finger and say.....You are wrong in a haughty way. :neutral
 
Kathi said:
I just kept going on and on about how nice it was to have a pre-trib believer among me on this board... That would have been totally cool with me if you would have told me you were mid-trib.But then again I like honesty.And I will stay on the end-times forum if people will respect my view.They do not have to agree with it.But please do not point a finger and say.....You are wrong in a haughty way. :neutral
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Hi Kathi,

This is such a minor issue to me, and while I have a strong opinion on it, I think it is extremely foolish to divide over the issue. I apologize if my confidence in the teaching of Scripture came off as haughty, I am very passionate about the truth and I can sometimes hurt others with the way I communicate.

I'll do my best to respect your views moving forward.

Can I ask a question though (and this isn't some kind of "gotcha"), but I am just curious as to how you came to this position. What was it that led you to embrace Pre-Tribulation Rapture?
 
Doulos Iesou said:
Hi Kathi,

This is such a minor issue to me, and while I have a strong opinion on it, I think it is extremely foolish to divide over the issue. I apologize if my confidence in the teaching of Scripture came off as haughty, I am very passionate about the truth and I can sometimes hurt others with the way I communicate.

I'll do my best to respect your views moving forward.

Can I ask a question though (and this isn't some kind of "gotcha"), but I am just curious as to how you came to this position. What was it that led you to embrace Pre-Tribulation Rapture?
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Much prayer and study and research of Scripture has led me to the Pre-trib view.I have studied all of the views.When I came to pre-trib I thought to myself why would a loving,merciful God with so much grace lead his sheep to slaughter?The tribulation is a time for judgment.Why would He want to put us through that judgement?When I was studying the other views I did not find peace in my heart.No one knows.But God knows.We will have to just wait and see.I could be wrong and the other views could wrong.We will not know for sure until we get to heaven.That is why I find it a waste of time to argue and get upset with each other about a view that one one knows for sure.I would be the last person to want to say that only my view is right.I think that is dangerous.That is prideful and stubborn and we know what the Bible has to say about that.So I will respectfully debate.It is nice to see the other views. :)
 
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Kathi said:
I just kept going on and on about how nice it was to have a pre-trib believer among me on this board... That would have been totally cool with me if you would have told me you were mid-trib.But then again I like honesty.And I will stay on the end-times forum if people will respect my view.They do not have to agree with it.But please do not point a finger and say.....You are wrong in a haughty way. :neutral
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Kathi I was honest with you, we sent personal emails back and forth before I made this thread and I told you in the email that I wasn't pre-trib or mid-trib. I didn't have a preference at the time, but now I do. I would never act haughty. I would show them scripture and go from there, like Rev 20:4-6.
 
DRS81 said:
Kathi I was honest with you, we sent personal emails back and forth before I made this thread and I told you in the email that I wasn't pre-trib or mid-trib. I didn't have a preference at the time, but now I do. I would never act haughty. I would show them scripture and go from there, like Rev 20:4-6.
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But you did not tell me in the PM that you were not pre-trib.I would have understood.Now I am confused.
 
Kathi said:
I see this DR as the the 1000 year millenium.To me this comes after the tribulation.I take a literal view of the Bible so that is why I have come up with that.
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After tribulation, good. So do you believe in Rev 20:4-6 that the first resurrection spoken of is also speaking about rapture?
 
Kathi said:
Much prayer and study and research of Scripture has led me to the Pre-trib view.I have studied all of the views.
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And it appears from the rest of your post that you are of course open to the Scriptures and believe that you could be wrong on the matter. This is a good thing, and we must trust ourselves in God and not in man.

When I came to pre-trib I thought to myself why would a loving,merciful God lead his sheep to slaughter?
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I find this an interesting thought, and I think Paul answers this very question in Romans 8.

He even uses the same phrase as you, "sheep to [be] slaughter[ed]."

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:35-39 (ESV)

We are more than conquerors through him who loved us. What does that mean? That God will prevent us from experiencing any of these things? I don't think so.

Paul says that tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, danger, or the sword (death) can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. That through these things, we are more than conquerors through Jesus.

Then he cites the OT Scripture where it talks about us being regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.

Dear Kathi, neither life nor death, even at the hands of those who wish to persecute you, can possibly separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Why is that?

So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18 (ESV)

Even if our outer self is wasting away, God is renewing our inner self day by day. That this "light momentary affliction" is preparing us for an eternal weight of glory! The suffering of this life is not evidence that God doesn't love us, but quite the contrary, that we are to draw closer to God through our suffering and it makes us stronger. The afflictions and tribulations that the saints endure are not in vain, but are given meaning and purpose in light of eternity. Hence, we look to what is unseen, rather than what is seen... to the eternal over the temporary.

Every Apostle save John, was brutally martyred on account of their faith. Was this because God had forsaken them, or rather was it because Jesus was inviting them to partake of the fellowship of his suffering.

This difficult truth must be true of all Christians.

strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God. Acts 14:22 (ESV)

This was right after Paul was stoned and almost killed, they recognized the difficult calling of being Christ's disciple, that endurance leads to the building of character and gives us faith in the hope of God.

I do not believe that God has called us to be taken from this world, but to suffer for the world for the sake of the gospel. That God who is rich in mercy, will use the Church to have mercy on more and more.

When I was studying the other views I did not find peace in my heart.
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Be careful.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? Jeremiah 17:9 (ESV)

Trust in God.

No one knows.But God knows.We will have to just wait and see.I could be wrong and the other views could wrong.We will not know for sure until we get to heaven.That is why I find it a waste of time to argue and get upset with each other about a view that one one knows for sure.I would be the last person to want to say that only my view is right.I think that is dangerous.That is prideful and stubborn and we know what the Bible has to say about that.So I will respectfully debate.It is nice to see the other views. :)
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Is it prideful to know that Christ is our one true savior? Is it prideful to herald the truth of the gospel? Why is it prideful to claim certain truths about the teaching of Scripture, and not others?

If God has spoken clearly, and we do our best to understand him, then why would we shy away from proclaiming his truth?

Some food for thought.
DI
 
DRS81 said:
I don't see the relation. What does this have to do with pre-trib rapture.
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My understanding is that it is your contention that the Lord's Day is the last day, and that all Christians are caught up at that time. Why would there be nations for anyone to rule at that time?
 
Kathi - The main theme about the end times is deception. Jesus Christ said that MANY will be deceived. Even the Elect will be deceived - if that were possible.
The Pre-Trib Rapture doesn't deceive anyone.
Suppose tomorrow 5 million people (MY number) vanished. That would be the top news story on every news network in the world. Then someone is going to report that Christians believed that when people disappear, that an evil dictator is going to arrive. They called him the antichrist. Therefore, this person is now here. We need to be on the lookout for this man.
Who is deceived? - No one.

Instead, when the Tribulation begins, Pre-Tribbers are going to say that so and so is not the antichrist because I am still here. So and so is not the antichrist because God PROMISED us that we would be gone when he arrived. So and so is not the antichrist because how could a loving merciful God do that to us? Therefore, so and so is NOT the antichrist.

Sadly, Pre-Tribbers have gotten the idea that they are "special". THEY are going to be spared from persecution and death when NO ONE ever has been - not the earliest Christians - not the Jews - no one.
 
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