Question About Mary

[WIP]

You're missing Mungo's point. Gabriel didn't say she had conceived, rather than she would in the future. So her activity up to the moment of Gabriel's announcement had no effect on the future.

Okay, but it doesn't prove that she would never know a man and Scripture also says that Joseph took her as his wife as the angel commanded but he did not know her UNTIL after Jesus was born. (Matthew 1:25)

 

[jaybo]

Okay, but it doesn't prove that she would never know a man and Scripture also says that Joseph took her as his wife as the angel commanded but he did not know her UNTIL after Jesus was born. (Matthew 1:25)

So clearly Mary was not "ever virgin"! It is simply a myth made up by Catholics to present Mary as some sort of "pure" female (as though intercourse is "dirty").

 

[rstrats]

You believe your clergy [with regard to sola scriptura]; I believe God.

Does that mean that you believe in sola scriptura? If so, I'm not aware of any scripture which says that the Bible is the sole authority for Christian doctrine concerning faith and practice. What do you have in mind?

 

[Mungo]

Nice dodge.

Try proving that the Catholic denomination is scriptural. Or the Pope.

Again, why is Jesus still on the cross in your churches and around your neck? He has been resurrected and at the right hand of God!.

Do you understand ad hominem? (Attacking the person): This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument.

Your statement that I'm trying to hide my failure is a prime example. It shows that your argument has no basis in truth.

You can waffle and bluster as much as you like but it doesn't obscure the fact that you cannot prove Sola Scriptura from scripture.

 

[Mungo]

There are probably at least a couple hundred prayers to Mary being said around the globe at any given moment. I always wonder how she keeps them all separate in order to make the decisions for any actions she needs to take with regard to each one of them. And of course they just keep coming non-stop 24/7.

Those in heaven are outside of time. There is no past or present by their perception, just one great present. They are not limited by time in the way we are. They are not omniscient but we believe that it is by God’s will that they are allowed to hear our prayers to them.

Also bear in mind these scriptures:
“When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” (Rev 5:8)

“Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne.” (Rev 8:3)

If the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

 

[jaybo]

Does that mean that you believe in sola scriptura? If so, I'm not aware of any scripture which says that the Bible is the sole authority for Christian doctrine concerning faith and practice. What do you have in mind?

Yes, I believe in sola scriptura. The Bible is universally accepted as the very words of God. It is accepted as infallible. Everything else is the teachings of men. Do you believe men and not God?

 

[Corn Pop]

Gabriel told Mary that she will [future tense] conceive and bare a son.

Or as Mungo puts it: "The angel tells her she will conceive - some unspecified time in the future He does not say you have conceived but will conceive. He is pointing to the future but gives no timescale... But Mary asks a strange question. 'How can this be since I have no relations with a man?' In normal circumstances this would a silly question, so this indicates that this is not a normal marriage; that she has no expectation of sexual relations with Joseph... Her question therefore only makes sense if she intended not to consummate the marriage..."

How do you address that?

That's easy to address. She's not married and has not been with a man and Gabriel says she is going to have a baby. When the future is predicted some people have a hard time understanding it. She wasn't married, never been with a man, and had not yet even planned to have children and someone says your going to have a child, she be like, I never been with a man or are married or even know if I will get pregnant, and Gabriel explains the situation.

Elizabeth in her old age could not have children maybe she had complications but what's impossible with God. She probably thought the same thing. How can I get pregnant I'm old and Barron. Doesn't mean she was ever virgin.

Also that has nothing to do with being ever virgin. She just said shes not married or been with a man so how is going to get pregnant. Simple question.

If someone told me now I'm going to have a child, I would be like I don't have a wife so what are you talking about how is that possible.. Simple question.

 

[God Is My Judge]

There was a satanist, Protestant and Catholic, they all got together to make a forum and called it Christian??that's the best one! Can't think of a better joke. Well, cin cin! Enjoy what's coming. Keep your eyes on the news and know God's ? is on you. ?

Reactions:stovebolts:angry
James 1:
19My beloved brothers, understand this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger, 20for man’s anger does not bring about the righteousness that God desires. 21Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save your souls.…

The funny thing is, I didn't call myself a satanist nor am I a self-proclaimed atheist. I have every right to say what I did. If you serve God then do so, goes for your buddies T.E.Smith and Mungo too. Nothing Christian in their behavior. Try to keep it real. Me thinking this forum is fake is due to the unchristian behavior of certain LARPERS.

 

[Corn Pop]

All I need to see is some scripture that can prove Mary was ever virgin or told to be ever virgin. I don't need a direct scripture, just something that points to her being ever virgin.

Why is that so hard?. Because there is nothing?.

To believe something is truth there has to be scripture that can point to it being truth. That's all I'm asking for, just reference that can show Mary being ever virgin and I will believe it.

Mary through the Holy spirit gave birth to her firstborn son as a virgin. That's scriptural fact.

 

[Corn Pop]

You have to test everything. to claim something is truth there should be proof for it.

The scriptures don't say she was and give no reference to her being ever virgin. A virgin who gave birth to her firstborn and a prophecy a virgin will give birth, but that's it.

Trying to prove Jesus didn't have brothers doesn't work and e'ven if it was a fact Jesus had no brothers or sisters still would not prove Mary was ever virgin, just Jesus had no brothers or sisters.

Do you see what im saying.

 

[Corn Pop]

The only way I can believe Mary was ever virgin is if there is scriptural reference points bring to it. If scripture said something like Mary gave birth to her firstborn and only son Jesus then I could believe it. Just example.

There is nothing about her being ever virgin because her private life with her husband is not important. Its not a sin either way. Mary played her role for the Holy Spirit, after that her private life with her husband is no one's business. That's why it's not in scripture, its not important.

What's the difference if Mary was not ever virgin, it doesn't make her any less of a chosen and blessed woman. Its not a sin. It doesn't change anything.

 

[rstrats]

kiwidan,
re: "That's easy to address... She wasn't married, never been with a man, and had not yet even planned to have children..."

How do you know that she didn't plan on having children?

re: "She just said shes not married or been with a man so how is [she] going to get pregnant. Simple question."

Simple answer - she was engaged to be married. What reason would she have to think that she wouldn't have normal relations with her future husband ?


re: "If someone told me now I'm going to have a child, I would be like I don't have a wife so what are you talking about how is that possible.. Simple question."

Simple answer - Mary knew she was going to have a husband.

 

[Corn Pop]

kiwidan,
re: "That's easy to address... She wasn't married, never been with a man, and had not yet even planned to have children..."

How do you know that she didn't plan on having children?

re: "She just said shes not married or been with a man so how is [she] going to get pregnant. Simple question."

Simple answer - she was engaged to be married. What reason would she have to think that she wouldn't have normal relations with her future husband ?


re: "If someone told me now I'm going to have a child, I would be like I don't have a wife so what are you talking about how is that possible.. Simple question."

Simple answer - Mary knew she was going to have a husband.

She can't of planned on having children anytime soon if she's not even married and if Gabriel told her she was going to have a son and she asked how can that be as she has not yet been with a man and was not yet married.

She asked a simple question. She's not yet married and been with her husband and Gabriel said to her she was going to have a Child so she asked the simple question how can that be as she hasn't yet been with her husband. And Gabriel explains the situation.

 

[Corn Pop]

Mary was wondering how she was going to get pregnant when she had not been with a man. And also she was not married.

That's a standard question to ask in my opinion.

 

[WIP]

You have to test everything. to claim something is truth there should be proof for it.

What about faith? There is that too.

 

[jaybo]

What about faith? There is that too.

Faith is not the opposite of logic. Since the Bible says that Mary had brothers it is clear that she had sexual relations with her husband.

 

[jaybo]

Testing faith?. I already admit I fail there. I can't live up to Christ's expectations. I'm just a mustard seed who hopes Christ has mercy on me. Sometimes I'm a light to the world other times I'm not.

As are we all. One doesn't have to be perfectly sinless to be accepted and loved by God.

 

[Corn Pop]

What about the sayings mother of god and queen of heaven. As far as I am aware God is from everlasting to everlasting and does not have a mother or a wife.

 

[jaybo]

What about the sayings mother of god and queen of heaven. As far as I am aware God is from everlasting to everlasting and does not have a mother or a wife.

Both "mother of God" and "queen of heaven" are absent from Scripture.

 

[Corn Pop]

Both "mother of God" and "queen of heaven" are absent from Scripture.

There is a queen of heaven in Jeremiah, but it's not Gods wife or Mother. Its some godess that was being worshipped with baal or something I can't remember.