question for all christians

[DarcyLu]

wow this isnt really i wanted the op to go.

on miracles, that does go on. but its not for them that dont believe, for them do believe. though the lord can use a miracle to save someone.

signs and wonders follow them that believe. Does this mean that those word faith and name and claim preachers are correct in thier doctrine?

No, their doctrine is not correct.
We aren't a name it and claim people.
The just shall live by faith.

The signs of the Apostles, and the writing of the books of the Bible were given to confirm Jesus as the Son of God. Jesus is confirmed by the Word...the Bible has been written. Now we pray and our prayers are heard by God. We no longer require signs and wonders to beleive.

who said anything about requring signs and wonders to believe in God, i for one do not need a sign to believe God exists, but what has happened is because i believe God and have faith in the Word, then i see signs - it's kind of an oxymoron don't you think? oh, i believe in God but i don't see God working in our lives??? He's God, of course He is alive and at work in our lives - for those who believe anyway. i find it extremely difficult, glory, to believe that you have never seen a sign from God as in a healing or an answered prayer.

the thing is, if you are in the Word, then our prayers will be His will, not ours. it's not like a person, in the Word, is going to pray for something that is against the Word, so the "name it claim it" phrase you used, i think you are misunderstanding it entirely.

 

[jasoncran]

no the name and claim in phenomon teaches that if one is saved then one shouldnt have suffering and also have wealth etc, that's not biblical.
if you have christ in you then you will have trials and tribulations

that doenst mean that you want reciever answered prayers and miracles.

we dont speak blessings, now do we.We rather prayer for others and ask the lord and recieve them.

i cant command a job to come forth me, but i can believe that lord will provide.
we are his children but even when we are asking for something, he may say no. i have a plan for you that you need to go through.

 

[Cornelius]

Hi C.

What "fruit" are you talking about ? The reason I ask, is because of what I have been reading from your posts. So please explain what fruit you are talking about please.

I have answered this in a previous post but here it is again:



let me answer you like this : When you plant an apple seed and a apple tree comes up, what fruit do you get from that tree?

Also think about this. During a harvest, do the farmer come for the plant or the fruit of that plant?

OK, now if you believe what the Bible says, you will know that Jesus calls the Word of God .........seed.The Bible also tells us that Jesus is that Word manifested. So its easy to see the "seed" is "Christ" is the "Word"
Now your heart is called "ground" or "soil" by Jesus in the parable of the Sower.God is sowing Christ into your soil and now a plant must come up . When that plant is mature it will bear fruit.

So your answer is in the question: What fruit comes, when we plant an apple seed? What fruit comes unto the tree that sprung up from the Word/Seed of God ?

 

[Cornelius]

The curse we are not under is the law, not the curses that would come on those who disobeyed the law....being under grace means we are no longer under the law. We are no longer to find righteousness by keeping the law because we are justified by grace.

When the Israelites disobeyed the Law, the curse came upon them. The Law did not come upon them, the curse came upon them. Sickness, and bondage etc. That surely is clear when we read the OT.Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of Jehovah thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day, that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee. So disobedience brought the curse.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they brought the curse of death upon themselves.

Jesus redeemed us from the curse.

 

[DarcyLu]

no the name and claim in phenomon teaches that if one is saved then one shouldnt have suffering and also have wealth etc, that's not biblical.

oh, if that is what glory was referring to, then no, it is not Bibical. thanks for clarifying.

 

[glorydaz]

No, their doctrine is not correct.
We aren't a name it and claim people.
The just shall live by faith.

The signs of the Apostles, and the writing of the books of the Bible were given to confirm Jesus as the Son of God. Jesus is confirmed by the Word...the Bible has been written. Now we pray and our prayers are heard by God. We no longer require signs and wonders to beleive.

who said anything about requring signs and wonders to believe in God, i for one do not need a sign to believe God exists, but what has happened is because i believe God and have faith in the Word, then i see signs - it's kind of an oxymoron don't you think? oh, i believe in God but i don't see God working in our lives??? He's God, of course He is alive and at work in our lives - for those who believe anyway. i find it extremely difficult, glory, to believe that you have never seen a sign from God as in a healing or an answered prayer.

the thing is, if you are in the Word, then our prayers will be His will, not ours. it's not like a person, in the Word, is going to pray for something that is against the Word, so the "name it claim it" phrase you used, i think you are misunderstanding it entirely.

The signs and wonders we're speaking of are not answers to prayer, they were powers given the Apostles for a specific reason at a specific time.

Yes, God most certainly answers prayer. Evidence of that is everywhere.
Again, these are not the "signs and wonders" at issue.
The "name it and claim it" I'm referring to has no "praying in the will of God" to it.
It's to those, and those alone, I'm speaking.
One is presumptuous and one isn't.

 

[jasoncran]

no the name and claim in phenomon teaches that if one is saved then one shouldnt have suffering and also have wealth etc, that's not biblical.

oh, if that is what glory was referring to, then no, it is not Bibical. thanks for clarifying.

watch alot of these tv evangelists that preach that or the ones that say give to my ministry and you will be blessed 1000 times over. on tithing, that isnt always promised monetarily nor does it mean that you wont be broke.

that is a mistake my church preaches and alot of others. if that were true then why all those jobless tithing christians.sooner or later they will get a job, rater sooner.

the lord brings then through yes and sustains them. but one must use wisdom in giving. I cant ask someone who is broke to give 10% to the church, unless the Lord really told me that.

to take money from a family who is near poverty is wrong.


i do beleive in tithing. and you will be blessed here and in heaven, but not like many say on tv or preach.The lord will return what you give, not always in money though.

 

[glorydaz]

no the name and claim in phenomon teaches that if one is saved then one shouldnt have suffering and also have wealth etc, that's not biblical.
if you have christ in you then you will have trials and tribulations

that doenst mean that you want reciever answered prayers and miracles.

we dont speak blessings, now do we.We rather prayer for others and ask the lord and recieve them.

i cant command a job to come forth me, but i can believe that lord will provide.
we are his children but even when we are asking for something, he may say no. i have a plan for you that you need to go through.

You're right, Jason. We are being perfected. Are we perfected by everything being handed to us on a silver platter? No, we are being perfected by our trials, tribulations, and adversities.

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Which is why we're to count it all joy when we fall into diverse temptations.

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

All the dross must be burnt up in order that the pure gold remains.

 

[DarcyLu]

The signs and wonders we're speaking of are not answers to prayer, they were powers given the Apostles for a specific reason at a specific time.

Yes, God most certainly answers prayer. Evidence of that is everywhere.
Again, these are not the "signs and wonders" at issue.
The "name it and claim it" I'm referring to has no "praying in the will of God" to it.
It's to those, and those alone, I'm speaking.
One is presumptuous and one isn't.

well, i have seen God work beyond people even asking for prayer, and it has been amazing to see Him work, even in instances where He defies the laws of pyshics as some people on this board do not believe He can or does - i have seen it, He does. but i will leave it there because why give anyone the opportunity to call me a liar and deny His works, as i would refer to as a sign and wonder.

we WILL do things greater than He did, it says it in His Word and why would He write it if it was not true?

 

[Cornelius]

no the name and claim in phenomon teaches that if one is saved then one shouldnt have suffering and also have wealth etc, that's not biblical.

oh, if that is what glory was referring to, then no, it is not Bibical. thanks for clarifying.

Amen Darcy.

Yes there is a huge difference between the so called "name it and claim it" doctrine and the truth about standing on the promises. God never promised us to meet our lusts, only our needs. ALL our needs.People have taken it too far and some are preaching that we can claim anything. That is not in the Word, that is a false doctrine.

 

[jasoncran]

we can do miracles, but not all will all the time.
some need that seed of faith and can pray with more authority as that is thier gift of faith.

we dont speak to the problem and get it healed, it does get healed by talking to the lord.

if have seen healings in my life, albeit gradual for my back. then theres my homechurch that has miracles produced in it.Not all the time but its there.

children that should have been vegateables,(lungs filled with mud and in that state for hrs), totally normal
cancers gone! and so on.

 

[DarcyLu]

no the name and claim in phenomon teaches that if one is saved then one shouldnt have suffering and also have wealth etc, that's not biblical.

oh, if that is what glory was referring to, then no, it is not Bibical. thanks for clarifying.

Amen Darcy.

Yes there is a huge difference between the so called "name it and claim it" doctrine and the truth about standing on the promises. God never promised us to meet our lusts, only our needs. ALL our needs.People have taken it too far and some are preaching that we can claim anything. That is not in the Word, that is a false doctrine.

in addition, if we are in the Word, and in God's will, then we are praying God's will, not our own. God changes our will to His will. Let His will be done!

 

[Cornelius]

in addition, if we are in the Word, and in God's will, then we are praying God's will, not our own. God changes our will to His will. Let His will be done!

Amen, because we have the mind of Christ

 

[glorydaz]

The curse we are not under is the law, not the curses that would come on those who disobeyed the law....being under grace means we are no longer under the law. We are no longer to find righteousness by keeping the law because we are justified by grace.

When the Israelites disobeyed the Law, the curse came upon them. The Law did not come upon them, the curse came upon them. Sickness, and bondage etc. That surely is clear when we read the OT.Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of Jehovah thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day, that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee. So disobedience brought the curse.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they brought the curse of death upon themselves.

Jesus redeemed us from the curse.

I think you're confusing the curses with the curse.
He took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing, by hanging on the tree.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Christ redeemed us from the curse OF THE LAW. Not the curses that came from disobeying the law.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

When Adam and Eve sinned...sin etered into the world, and sin brought death.
Death is not the curse, it is the effect of sin.

 

[DarcyLu]

we can do miracles, but not all will all the time.
some need that seed of faith and can pray with more authority as that is thier gift of faith.

we dont speak to the problem and get it healed, it does get healed by talking to the lord.

if have seen healings in my life, albeit gradual for my back. then theres my homechurch that has miracles produced in it.Not all the time but its there.

children that should have been vegateables,(lungs filled with mud and in that state for hrs), totally normal
cancers gone! and so on.

Amen Jason! when we are not healed immediately we know He is continuing His work in us though and we can praise Him for His faithfulness, although granted not always easy when we are in pain lol. something different for me, not physical pain although it felt like it, but when i lost a few people in my life, at the same time, i could not overcome the pain and finally i had this epiphany that i was not called to relive deaths everyday but to LIVE my life in Christ - and so i did. it took a long time though.

 

[jasoncran]

hmm i will ask this then, if we who have "this level of faith" then why isnt the mental illness and retardation being cured?

think about it. we all may know someone who is mentally retarded from birth. i know several. my sister was born that way.

 

[glorydaz]

The signs and wonders we're speaking of are not answers to prayer, they were powers given the Apostles for a specific reason at a specific time.

Yes, God most certainly answers prayer. Evidence of that is everywhere.
Again, these are not the "signs and wonders" at issue.
The "name it and claim it" I'm referring to has no "praying in the will of God" to it.
It's to those, and those alone, I'm speaking.
One is presumptuous and one isn't.

well, i have seen God work beyond people even asking for prayer, and it has been amazing to see Him work, even in instances where He defies the laws of pyshics as some people on this board do not believe He can or does - i have seen it, He does. but i will leave it there because why give anyone the opportunity to call me a liar and deny His works, as i would refer to as a sign and wonder.

we WILL do things greater than He did, it says it in His Word and why would He write it if it was not true?

The "greater things" are not speaking of signs and wonders. Jesus wasn't referring to signs and wonders in John 14...the closest mention of a miracle was back in John 8 when he raised Lazarus from the dead. What He was referring to was the scope of what He's done. The works are quantitatively greater because Christ's work is multiplied through all His followers. He's speaking of the Holy Spirit which was soon to come upon the believers. We won't be doing greater miracles than Jesus did, but our reach will be greater.

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi C.

What "fruit" are you talking about ? The reason I ask, is because of what I have been reading from your posts. So please explain what fruit you are talking about please.

I have answered this in a previous post but here it is again:



let me answer you like this : When you plant an apple seed and a apple tree comes up, what fruit do you get from that tree?

Also think about this. During a harvest, do the farmer come for the plant or the fruit of that plant?

OK, now if you believe what the Bible says, you will know that Jesus calls the Word of God .........seed.The Bible also tells us that Jesus is that Word manifested. So its easy to see the "seed" is "Christ" is the "Word"
Now your heart is called "ground" or "soil" by Jesus in the parable of the Sower.God is sowing Christ into your soil and now a plant must come up . When that plant is mature it will bear fruit.

So your answer is in the question: What fruit comes, when we plant an apple seed? What fruit comes unto the tree that sprung up from the Word/Seed of God ?

Hi C.

Your talking to a retired farmer. So if you think I do not understand, then think again. You still have not answered my question.

God plants his Word in my heart. I am the one who nurtures it, and as I believe, God gives me increase. God has also planted the seed of his Son into my heart. The fruit a son of God produces , is the fruit of the Spirit. Which is love, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness temperance, against such there is no law.

Like Paul said, when he plants the word (seed) and Apollos waters it, it is God that gives the increase. But also as Paul say, he is nothing.

Your analogy is off the mark.

 

[glorydaz]

we can do miracles, but not all will all the time.
some need that seed of faith and can pray with more authority as that is thier gift of faith.

we dont speak to the problem and get it healed, it does get healed by talking to the lord.

if have seen healings in my life, albeit gradual for my back. then theres my homechurch that has miracles produced in it.Not all the time but its there.

children that should have been vegateables,(lungs filled with mud and in that state for hrs), totally normal
cancers gone! and so on.

What miracles can WE do? Yes, the Lord is merciful and answers our prayers for healing, but certainly not always, and lack of faith is not the reason some aren't healed.

 

[jasoncran]

poor words, by praying for them. we pray for healings and other things

i shouldnt be in the army or working the job i do without that prayer for me

quick list of my injury

medial nerve damage on the right shoulder

L4,l5 disc herniated
c3 centrally herniated

i feel the pain from c3 most of the time
limited range of motion in twisting my back
burning sensations in my hands
legs were on fire and couldnt stand up straight
how did i get healed

by chiropractic and from the lord

the docs(both guys ) were bible believin christians.my neck wouldn't adjust and one the day the lord told me he healed it and viola that same day at the office it moved!