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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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question for all christians
- Thread starter jasoncran
- Start date
that is awesome Jason, i am very happy for you! Praise God!I truly find it strange when people say it is not due to a lack of faith.
I know that I sometimes lack faith and that lack is the reason for me not getting the promise. When I am double minded, I receive nothing. People think faith is believing in God (I believe in God and that does not bring healing) Its when I believe God, and when I stay in that belief, that the healing manifests.
God places us in a trail of faith. Why? To test of faith ! 1Pe 1:7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ:
I fail .......not God. Its never His fault. He does not change His mind. His Word is sure.
WE fail.
I know that I sometimes lack faith and that lack is the reason for me not getting the promise. When I am double minded, I receive nothing. People think faith is believing in God (I believe in God and that does not bring healing) Its when I believe God, and when I stay in that belief, that the healing manifests.
God places us in a trail of faith. Why? To test of faith ! 1Pe 1:7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ:
I fail .......not God. Its never His fault. He does not change His mind. His Word is sure.
WE fail.
i can honestly say, i am still learning, does that get me off the hook?jasoncran said:
i would venture to say the Lord probably has healed people from mental illness. we both know, and yes i am assuming on your part, that He could heal mental retardation, too. i don't know why. maybe someone else has a better answer for you.
on the other hand, people are born with IQ's of 150, while others are born with an IQ of 50, so is that the kind of healing we are talking about, we are not all given the same IQs and the Word doesn't tell us we will be. i guess that's my best guess.
jasoncran
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- May 17, 2009
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- #125
and the lord never ever says no! odd, he told jesus that he had to die on the cross, yet what did jesus do, submit his will do the lords after realizing and being reminded that he came to die. he prayed and asked that if it was possible let this cup pass to someone else, but nevertheless let thine will be done.Cornelius said:
he did it in agony and three times.
jasoncran said:
That is correct, because God never says no to Jesus. When we are in Christ, all the promises are YES (Amen) 2Co 1:20 For how many soever be the promises of God, in him is the yea: wherefore also through him is the Amen, unto the glory of God through us.
Its only outside of Christ that the promises are "No"
jasoncran
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- May 17, 2009
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- #127
that wasnt the intent, he does tell no. if he didnt then what the mans testimony on being burned alive and surviiving it marred . he has been that way for yrs. he begged and cried out to god on the alter of his charismatic church. and he heard that god told him after he tried to black mail the holy spirit by threatening to kill himself.He hard the Lord tell him go ahead and kill yourself with that make you feel better? i wont heal you and you cant make me do it. he then got up and repented and asked the Lord what shall i do.
the lord told him what to do, go and find those like him and tell them that i died for them.reach out to the scarred mentally and physically and also those depressed. he has been doing that since the early 80's
he begged for yrs. was his faith weak i think not! if it was he would have walked away then, and not served the Lord despite the the burned face and arms and legs and so on.
he was burned in combat while throwing a grenade(white phospurus). it went off in his hand as he was shot there and dropped into his chest area.
edited for correction
this is his site
http://www.daveroever.org/roeverstory.php
you can see the burns on his face, its still there.
the lord told him what to do, go and find those like him and tell them that i died for them.reach out to the scarred mentally and physically and also those depressed. he has been doing that since the early 80's
he begged for yrs. was his faith weak i think not! if it was he would have walked away then, and not served the Lord despite the the burned face and arms and legs and so on.
he was burned in combat while throwing a grenade(white phospurus). it went off in his hand as he was shot there and dropped into his chest area.
edited for correction
this is his site
http://www.daveroever.org/roeverstory.php
you can see the burns on his face, its still there.
Cornelius said:
everytime the israelites slaughtered an animal God said "no" it wasn't enough, there had to be more and more, but He knew there would be a "yes" coming and on Calvary - God said "yes". the old covenant was based on a shadow and a "no, it's not enough" and the new covenant is based on a "yes and a Savior". so every promise there is, every promise God has made to us - they are all "Yes" in Christ. every single promise finds a YES in Jesus Christ.
jasoncran said:
Brother, God is not moved by begging, because He has already given the healing 2000 years ago in Jesus Christ. God is moved only by faith and us not being double minded. We have to do two things when we come to God : Heb 11:6 and without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is (That is what most people call "faith" ), and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him (That would be to have faith in the what He promised us.Healing is just such a promise.)
jasoncran
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- May 17, 2009
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- #130
really what is the pettioning, what does that imply, we go to the lord and in faith and in desperation!
if he says no then who else do we go to!see the parable of the widow and unjust judge.
he beleived that the lord would heal him. and he didnt! his faith wasnt weak.
he knew that god got him through that surgery. a white phosphurus grenade burns on water, it wont finished untill theres none there or is put out.
i have friends that have fire arty rounds at cows with that stuff,all that was left was the hooves.in matter of minutes.
if he says no then who else do we go to!see the parable of the widow and unjust judge.
he beleived that the lord would heal him. and he didnt! his faith wasnt weak.
he knew that god got him through that surgery. a white phosphurus grenade burns on water, it wont finished untill theres none there or is put out.
i have friends that have fire arty rounds at cows with that stuff,all that was left was the hooves.in matter of minutes.
GodspromisesRyes
Member
- Aug 26, 2009
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There is some important lessons here.
Firstly scripture is always right first and foremost before experience. Experience is important but MUST be understood through scripture.
We cannot say " God says no to healing" when the bible never says that because we know someone who was not healed. We do not know the heart of the person we are speaking of. Someone may be a mighty man of God and still in a trial of faith be moved to double mindedness WE do not know, what we can know is that GOD never fails and what He has promised He not only will do- BUT HAS already done! It is US who must keep up our end which is faith in the promise and finished work of Christ. There is never an example in scripture of a faithful believer in Jesus who asked in faith for physical healing and did not recieve it.
The next important thing is we cannot try to combine doctrines and cross over things. There are differnt scritpural reasons for and promises about healing- persecution- provision. We are told that we WERE already healed by Christ and that His stripes already paid for our healing. that it is done. we are told that He already bore our sicknesses. We are told it was already provided and we are to ask and believe we already have it. We are told that healing is the " children's bread".
However we are also told that we are called to persecution. God may or may not deliver us from persecution according to His purposes and will because we are called to suffer persecution for His names sake.We are shown in scripture both saints being delivered from persecution for the gospel sake and being delivered up to death in persecution for the gospel sake. We are also told that we are BLESSED when we are hated for His name and when we get to partake of His sufferings.
The differnce is this, sickness is caused because of sin from the fall. The curses of sin are shown in the curses of the law and include all forms of illness. Jesus became a curse for us so that we are released from the curse of the law. The law itself is not a curse, the penalties for sins because of the law are curses.
But those who persecute hate us for our good and for his good also. There is a reason we do not ever see Jesus sick in the bible but we do see him persecuted and delviered up. We are PROMISED healing if we will believe. we are also promised persecution not deliverance from it.
Firstly scripture is always right first and foremost before experience. Experience is important but MUST be understood through scripture.
We cannot say " God says no to healing" when the bible never says that because we know someone who was not healed. We do not know the heart of the person we are speaking of. Someone may be a mighty man of God and still in a trial of faith be moved to double mindedness WE do not know, what we can know is that GOD never fails and what He has promised He not only will do- BUT HAS already done! It is US who must keep up our end which is faith in the promise and finished work of Christ. There is never an example in scripture of a faithful believer in Jesus who asked in faith for physical healing and did not recieve it.
The next important thing is we cannot try to combine doctrines and cross over things. There are differnt scritpural reasons for and promises about healing- persecution- provision. We are told that we WERE already healed by Christ and that His stripes already paid for our healing. that it is done. we are told that He already bore our sicknesses. We are told it was already provided and we are to ask and believe we already have it. We are told that healing is the " children's bread".
However we are also told that we are called to persecution. God may or may not deliver us from persecution according to His purposes and will because we are called to suffer persecution for His names sake.We are shown in scripture both saints being delivered from persecution for the gospel sake and being delivered up to death in persecution for the gospel sake. We are also told that we are BLESSED when we are hated for His name and when we get to partake of His sufferings.
The differnce is this, sickness is caused because of sin from the fall. The curses of sin are shown in the curses of the law and include all forms of illness. Jesus became a curse for us so that we are released from the curse of the law. The law itself is not a curse, the penalties for sins because of the law are curses.
But those who persecute hate us for our good and for his good also. There is a reason we do not ever see Jesus sick in the bible but we do see him persecuted and delviered up. We are PROMISED healing if we will believe. we are also promised persecution not deliverance from it.
jasoncran
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- May 17, 2009
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- #132
so then godspromisesryres, then we die, is that weak faith.
organs fail and usually do it either quickly or slowly. ie
cirrosis
or kidney failure
if we know were are having that problem and are praying to be healed then die from that , is that weak faith or god calling us home
if the later then god has the authority to say no.he may use a disease to get us home. unless you think we are greater then God
jesus is god and we arent. by your reasoning all saints should still be alive on this earth.
i knew of a man who beleived what you did and died from lung cancer yet on his death bed he prayed for others to be healed of the same thing and they were!
if thats the case of we lack of faith when we arent healed then can I pose a test
let me shoot you in the lungs and deny you acess to emt and see what god does?
if you die it will be lack of faith, you live it will be a miracle.
of course thats a sin. but i think you get the idea.
organs fail and usually do it either quickly or slowly. ie
cirrosis
or kidney failure
if we know were are having that problem and are praying to be healed then die from that , is that weak faith or god calling us home
if the later then god has the authority to say no.he may use a disease to get us home. unless you think we are greater then God
jesus is god and we arent. by your reasoning all saints should still be alive on this earth.
i knew of a man who beleived what you did and died from lung cancer yet on his death bed he prayed for others to be healed of the same thing and they were!
if thats the case of we lack of faith when we arent healed then can I pose a test
let me shoot you in the lungs and deny you acess to emt and see what god does?
if you die it will be lack of faith, you live it will be a miracle.
of course thats a sin. but i think you get the idea.
Amen, Jason. Was it a lack of faith with Jesus?jasoncran said:
It isn't a question of whether God is able, we know He is more than able, but whether He will.
Matthew 26:39 said:
Was it a lack of faith when Stephen was stoned or when Paul's infirmity was not removed even when he asked three times? The problem with this name it and claim it...which is what we're seeing here is when someone takes a scripture and insists it stands alone. There are times when it's a lack of faith, and there are times when it isn't. Plain and simple.
We aren't promised a pain free life or one free from adversity, illness and persecution, so how can we possibly claim them as promises. The promise is for eternal life for those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Why is that promise so quickly dismissed and other things, that are not promises, claimed?
.
I would like to point out that there is a difference between signs and wonders performed for specific purposes by Jesus and the apostles and the so called "Spiritual gifts". Paul tried to show the Corinthians the difference. The gifts and the gifted ones are for the church. Because of the present state of Christianity, they are being misused today as they were in Corinth. Signs and wonders were to cease. Not the Spirituals that were connected with the Spirit of God in the church. Like the Bible, the Spirituals are intended to be tools of God in the church. Today, as is the case with the Bible through the practice of interpretation, the Spirituals are being used as tools of man. If one can say that the Spirituals are being practiced at all. In my experience, much of it is merely human having nothing at all to do with the Spirit.
JamesG
I would like to point out that there is a difference between signs and wonders performed for specific purposes by Jesus and the apostles and the so called "Spiritual gifts". Paul tried to show the Corinthians the difference. The gifts and the gifted ones are for the church. Because of the present state of Christianity, they are being misused today as they were in Corinth. Signs and wonders were to cease. Not the Spirituals that were connected with the Spirit of God in the church. Like the Bible, the Spirituals are intended to be tools of God in the church. Today, as is the case with the Bible through the practice of interpretation, the Spirituals are being used as tools of man. If one can say that the Spirituals are being practiced at all. In my experience, much of it is merely human having nothing at all to do with the Spirit.
JamesG
glory, we were not promised a pain free, non persecuted life, we were never promised a life w/out tribulation. we were promised we WOULD BE persecuted and many Christians will die even yet. but God did promises that by His stripes we are healed and when Jesus healed He did say because of your faith you are healed. i just wrote this in another thread and i will repeat it, it seems now you are saying that 2,000 years later we don't need that same faith that Jesus used to heal others? so now the rules have changed? NO! they have not, because of your faith, you are healed! We have a promise now in Jesus that we are healed!glorydaz said:Amen, Jason. Was it a lack of faith with Jesus?
It isn't a question of whether God is able, we know He is more than able, but whether He will.
Matthew 26:39 said:
Was it a lack of faith when Stephen was stoned or when Paul's infirmity was not removed even when he asked three times? The problem with this name it and claim it...which is what we're seeing here is when someone takes a scripture and insists it stands alone. There are times when it's a lack of faith, and there are times when it isn't. Plain and simple.
We aren't promised a pain free life or one free from adversity, illness and persecution, so how can we possibly claim them as promises. The promise is for eternal life for those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Why is that promise so quickly dismissed and other things, that are not promises, claimed?
what promises are dismissed?
i thought we had this "name it claim it" thing cleared up??? Jason clarified it and now it is brought up again in a way different context then it was explained to me.
so for the record, glory, could you please clarify what you mean by "name it claim it" - because when you use that term, it is very confusing as to what exactly you are referring to.
Thanks.
so for the record, glory, could you please clarify what you mean by "name it claim it" - because when you use that term, it is very confusing as to what exactly you are referring to.
Thanks.
This entire discussion stems from a misunderstanding of the verse, "by His stripes we are healed." As I pointed out earlier...we are healed of our sins and iniquities. When we take a verse and make it apply to something it doesn't we have false doctrine.
What was laid on Christ was our iniquity...not our health, wealth and welfare.
What was laid on Christ was our iniquity...not our health, wealth and welfare.
We see Christ bore our SINS on the tree....by whose stripes ye were healed....ye were as sheep going astray. Not one mention of physical healing. This is sins and inquities, folks...it shouldn't be that difficult to rightly divide the truth.Isaiah 53:4-6 said:
1 Peter 2: 24-25 said:
jasoncran
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- May 17, 2009
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- #139
then darcylu why do christian die at all then.
organs do fail.
for it appointed for all men to die then unto the judgement
so with that verse
i will use your logic as i have asthma and severe asthma kills( i dont have this)
if i'm in the middle of my attack and pray to the lord. and believe that he will heal and have repented of my sin. and its big enough to kill and i die while enroute to the hosptital
is it my lack of faith that allowed me to die or the lord saying come home?
the later.
so by using your reasoning we should all live on earth forever, as if we believe that all those ailments are cured all the time, then we shouldnt die in the flesh
see the above verse then and reconcile
do all christians die? yes
what from
sometimes illness
sometimes murder
accidents
organs do fail.
for it appointed for all men to die then unto the judgement
so with that verse
i will use your logic as i have asthma and severe asthma kills( i dont have this)
if i'm in the middle of my attack and pray to the lord. and believe that he will heal and have repented of my sin. and its big enough to kill and i die while enroute to the hosptital
is it my lack of faith that allowed me to die or the lord saying come home?
the later.
so by using your reasoning we should all live on earth forever, as if we believe that all those ailments are cured all the time, then we shouldnt die in the flesh
see the above verse then and reconcile
do all christians die? yes
what from
sometimes illness
sometimes murder
accidents
GodspromisesRyes
Member
- Aug 26, 2009
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jason
Some will never die, however most of us do but that does not mean that we must go from any sickness or disease. It is possible to just give up the ghost and go or for the Lord to just take us peacefully with no sickness or disease abiding on our bodies.
As far as persecution goes, I addressed just that. Persecution is not sickness and while we are not called to sickness but promised healing from it if we believe we are promised persecution and all who desire to live holy will recieve persecution. We may or may not be delivered from persecution. We are promised persecution- not deliverance from it, but sometimes deliverance from it is given.
Sickness and persecution are two totally seperate things.
Again we need to believe the word of God not what we have seen and think of people we know
Some will never die, however most of us do but that does not mean that we must go from any sickness or disease. It is possible to just give up the ghost and go or for the Lord to just take us peacefully with no sickness or disease abiding on our bodies.
As far as persecution goes, I addressed just that. Persecution is not sickness and while we are not called to sickness but promised healing from it if we believe we are promised persecution and all who desire to live holy will recieve persecution. We may or may not be delivered from persecution. We are promised persecution- not deliverance from it, but sometimes deliverance from it is given.
Sickness and persecution are two totally seperate things.
Again we need to believe the word of God not what we have seen and think of people we know