question for all christians

[jasoncran]

i will add this. with the name and claim it group, theres a sub group that preaches that one will suffer via pesercution and can be healed by calling and claiming those promises.

while i believe we can stand on biblical promises. we simply ought not to slam the throneroom door down and demand from god. stating you owe me health, wealth and peaceful,lives

rather we should believe that god will do those things,but ask in a humble manner and accept his response.
his will should be on our mind not ours when we pray.

that job we ask for . he knows of a better one and says no
that healing we need he knows of someone who needs you to suffer a little longer so that they may see how despite that pain you still love the lord.

i guess our suffering shouldnt matter then to us. most of the name and claim it groups do preach the prosperity gospel.

think paula white and sometimes jessie duplantis.

 

[jasoncran]

jason

Some will never die, however most of us do but that does not mean that we must go from any sickness or disease. It is possible to just give up the ghost and go or for the Lord to just take us peacefully with no sickness or disease abiding on our bodies.

As far as persecution goes, I addressed just that. Persecution is not sickness and while we are not called to sickness but promised healing from it if we believe we are promised persecution and all who desire to live holy will recieve persecution. We may or may not be delivered from persecution. We are promised persecution- not deliverance from it, but sometimes deliverance from it is given.


Sickness and persecution are two totally seperate things.

Again we need to believe the word of God not what we have seen and think of people we know

ever know a doc then, do yourself a favor look up the morgue and fight an elderly person you know and what the cause of death is. its there if the autposy is done
my aunt was healthy three days ere death, died from massive liver and kidney failure, failed in three days. she knew she was dying and told the doc that let me go home to die. she was 98. and was a believer.

name on person of today that has simply died without any explanation. ie no liver failure or any organ failure


by your logic then we shouldnt' believe those church testimonies as they are 100% bilble verses.

 

[glorydaz]

glory, we were not promised a pain free, non persecuted life, we were never promised a life w/out tribulation. we were promised we WOULD BE persecuted and many Christians will die even yet. but God did promises that by His stripes we are healed and when Jesus healed He did say because of your faith you are healed. i just wrote this in another thread and i will repeat it, it seems now you are saying that 2,000 years later we don't need that same faith that Jesus used to heal others? so now the rules have changed? NO! they have not, because of your faith, you are healed! We have a promise now in Jesus that we are healed!

what promises are dismissed?

The rules haven't changed at all. We are healed from our sins when we believe...which is what "by His stripes we are healed" is talking about. Did Jesus perform signs and wonders? Of course. Some were healed when they exhibited faith, some were just healed as a sign to the unbelievers. Jesus healed people of little faith and even no faith...He healed so some could pursue faith, or gain more faith, and many times simply in His mercy.

 

[glorydaz]

i thought we had this "name it claim it" thing cleared up??? Jason clarified it and now it is brought up again in a way different context then it was explained to me.

so for the record, glory, could you please clarify what you mean by "name it claim it" - because when you use that term, it is very confusing as to what exactly you are referring to.

Thanks.

Name it and claim it is when someone thinks his words or faith bring about the action desired.

This puts the onus on man instead of on the will and power of God.
It's spiritual pride to think we can dictate to the Almighty God.

Our faith rests in the ability of God to do whatever He wants, and what He knows to be our best interest. I can't claim a healing if God wants me to go through...instead of avoid...anything.
We are promised God will never give us more than we can bear. He has not promised to heal us of our physical infirmities and ills, but of our spiritual infirmities and ills. He uses sickness and infirmities to bring us to where He wants us to be...resting and trusting in Him.

 

[DarcyLu]

i thought we had this "name it claim it" thing cleared up??? Jason clarified it and now it is brought up again in a way different context then it was explained to me.

so for the record, glory, could you please clarify what you mean by "name it claim it" - because when you use that term, it is very confusing as to what exactly you are referring to.

Thanks.

Name it and claim it is when someone thinks his words or faith bring about the action desired.

This puts the onus on man instead of on the will and power of God.
It's spiritual pride to think we can dictate to the Almighty God.

Our faith rests in the ability of God to do whatever He wants, and what He knows to be our best interest. I can't claim a healing if God wants me to go through...instead of avoid...anything.
We are promised God will never give us more than we can bear. He has not promised to heal us of our physical infirmities and ills, but of our spiritual infirmities and ills. He uses sickness and infirmities to bring us to where He wants us to be...resting and trusting in Him.

thanks for clarifying - like i said in earlier posts, i don't think we are dictating God, if we are in the Word, and like C said, have the mind of Christ, then we are praying in God's Will. i have prayed that my will be His will so that way i am not praying something outside of His will. i have also prayed things outside of His will and tried to get something from my will but i didn't get it. lol yet, we are already healed so whatever prayer we ask for healing, it is His will already.

 

[DarcyLu]

in addition, i do believe we must have faith when approaching God, because the Word says that if you do not approach God with faith, then you are double minded. it's a sin to approach God w/out faith.

 

[jasoncran]

example of a name and claim it prayer

lays hands on the part of the sick person body, and speaks to the part that is not well.
for this i will use my back

I had have this done.

I command this back to line up straight in the name of the lord and to no longer bother jason, and i command you devil to leave that back alone!

the lord does use that person, but i dont think thats the way to go about it.

nor is it wise to tell me or anyone that should it come back that is your lack of faith. maybe it wasnt healed all the way, or you reinjured it.

 

[glorydaz]

Mat 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast it out?
Mat 17:20 And he saith unto them, Because of your little faith:

This is a case in point of taking a portion of scripture to support what it doesn't.
The disciples were unable to cast out this demon...because of unbelief in God's ability. Jesus didn't say the Apostles had a lack of faith, (the faithless comment was directed to the others) He told the disciples it was because of thier "unbelief" in God's being ABLE, and went on to explain that kind of demon goes out by prayer and fasting. Jesus was saying our faith must rest in God's being able to do anything...not in our ability to claim anything.

Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

 

[jasoncran]

should we also be able to speak to the mountain and it move.

 

[DarcyLu]

should we also be able to speak to the mountain and it move.

if it was God's will for the mountain to move then it would, right? but i always saw this verse as more of an allegory for our tribulations in life. like God moved this mountain (problem) in my life.

 

[jasoncran]

should we also be able to speak to the mountain and it move.

if it was God's will for the mountain to move then it would, right? but i always saw this verse as more of an allegory for our tribulations in life. like God moved this mountain (problem) in my life.

some that believe like you actually think otherwise.

that's why i asked.

 

[DarcyLu]

example of a name and claim it prayer

lays hands on the part of the sick person body, and speaks to the part that is not well.
for this i will use my back

I had have this done.

I command this back to line up straight in the name of the lord and to no longer bother jason, and i command you devil to leave that back alone!

the lord does use that person, but i dont think thats the way to go about it.

nor is it wise to tell me or anyone that should it come back that is your lack of faith. maybe it wasnt healed all the way, or you reinjured it.

i have never seen anyone pray like that, nor have i watched any of the healers on TV, so this kind of praying is foreign to me. maybe others on this board pray like that, idk.
i guess with praying in faith, i just approach God in faith like the Word says, i can not judge your faith or lack of or excess of, no one can judge another if their prayers are not being answered as only God knows why. by your posts, i can see that you do know God heals as you have mentioned some cases.

 

[glorydaz]

Brother, God is not moved by begging, because He has already given the healing 2000 years ago in Jesus Christ. God is moved only by faith and us not being double minded. We have to do two things when we come to God : Heb 11:6 and without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is (That is what most people call "faith" ), and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him (That would be to have faith in the what He promised us.Healing is just such a promise.)

I hate to disagree again, brother, but God is, indeed, moved by begging (beseeching in the Bible).

And he preached in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and cast out devils. And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down to him, and saying unto him, If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean.

And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them. And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.

Turn again, and tell Hezekiah the captain of my people, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee: on the third day thou shalt go up unto the house of the LORD.

Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.

We aren't promised physical healing, although God, in His great mercy often answers our prayers for healing...as He does every area of our lives.

 

[jasoncran]

i have operated in the gifts of prophecy and also the gifts of interpretation. and i have also have seen visions of massive housing growth yrs before the boom in my hometown, why i dont know on that.

i have more or less the inclanation to operate in the gift of the prophecy then anything else. i havent done that recently, just recieved words of knowledge.

that is how my homechruch(old one) prays for healing. the new one does something similiar.


i have a very strong pentacostal beleif, i just dont bring up it here with the those that seem to be rather anti-pentacostal here.

i fit closer to nondemonational / the gifts of the holy spirit for today thinking.

 

[glorydaz]

jason

Some will never die, however most of us do but that does not mean that we must go from any sickness or disease. It is possible to just give up the ghost and go or for the Lord to just take us peacefully with no sickness or disease abiding on our bodies.

As far as persecution goes, I addressed just that. Persecution is not sickness and while we are not called to sickness but promised healing from it if we believe we are promised persecution and all who desire to live holy will recieve persecution. We may or may not be delivered from persecution. We are promised persecution- not deliverance from it, but sometimes deliverance from it is given.


Sickness and persecution are two totally seperate things.

Again we need to believe the word of God not what we have seen and think of people we know

Please show from the Word where we are promised physical healing..."by his stripes we are healed" doesn't work, because that is talking about our sins and iniquities.

 

[DarcyLu]

i have operated in the gifts of prophecy and also the gifts of interpretation. and i have also have seen visions of massive housing growth yrs before the boom in my hometown, why i dont know on that.

i have more or less the inclanation to operate in the gift of the prophecy then anything else. i havent done that recently, just recieved words of knowledge.

that is how my homechruch(old one) prays for healing. the new one does something similiar.


i have a very strong pentacostal beleif, i just dont bring up it here with the those that seem to be rather anti-pentacostal here.

i fit closer to nondemonational / the gifts of the holy spirit for today thinking.

that's awesome Jason, the Lord has blessed you with many gifts! i went to this church a few months back (i wrote this on another thread somewhere) and they were praying for these women who could not conceive, they do this annually. i guess there was an article in the local newspaper that the percentage of these women who conceived after going to get prayer, was really high. some of these women had been waiting for up to 10 years to have a baby and after they went to the prayer service and were prayed over, they got pregnant. there were alot of newborns at the service - all of the women had come the year before and they were showing off their little blessings.

 

[glorydaz]

thanks for clarifying - like i said in earlier posts, i don't think we are dictating God, if we are in the Word, and like C said, have the mind of Christ, then we are praying in God's Will. i have prayed that my will be His will so that way i am not praying something outside of His will. i have also prayed things outside of His will and tried to get something from my will but i didn't get it. lol yet, we are already healed so whatever prayer we ask for healing, it is His will already.

I, too, have prayed outside the will of God....and you're right, it doesn't work.

But we aren't always healed and physical healing is not promised.
"By His stripes we are healed" is not speaking of physical healing but from our sins and iniquities.

Here we see why....God has higher purposes than our physical infirmities.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 

[jasoncran]

i have heard of that. the gift of discerment is for all believers along with others.

but that is another topic.

 

[glorydaz]

should we also be able to speak to the mountain and it move.

if it was God's will for the mountain to move then it would, right? but i always saw this verse as more of an allegory for our tribulations in life. like God moved this mountain (problem) in my life.

Good choice....and our healing is from our sins and iniquities. ;)

 

[DarcyLu]

i have operated in the gifts of prophecy and also the gifts of interpretation. and i have also have seen visions of massive housing growth yrs before the boom in my hometown, why i dont know on that.

maybe you were supposed to buy up a bunch of real estate.

i have had dreams before but they were only pertaining to me and a certain direction i was supposed to take - they were selfish dreams i guess. lol i have told people things like, this will come about or you'll end up doing this, other times i just know some things will happen, but not too often, but i don't know what that is? is that some sort of gift or what is it?