Questions about Hell

[Chris]

I have always assumed hell exists and it was in the bible from genesis to revelation.

I read somewhere today that in the old testament hell as the concept we know is not mentioned. The original Hebrew word which is where the word hell is inserted often is Sheol. It seems correct translation noways in English is actually death or grave instead of a place of torment and fire.

Is it true the KJV translators translated the meaning wrong in the OT?

I have never considered it before as I have never read it and wondered if any theologian type people know of this and how the notion of hell came to be?
I am sure I read somewhere in the NT about eternal torment.

I bet this subject has come up before a few times.

 

[JJsaint]

I have always assumed hell exists and it was in the bible from genesis to revelation.

I read somewhere today that in the old testament hell as the concept we know is not mentioned. The original Hebrew word which is where the word hell is inserted often is Sheol. It seems correct translation noways in English is actually death or grave instead of a place of torment and fire.

Is it true the KJV translators translated the meaning wrong in the OT?

I have never considered it before as I have never read it and wondered if any theologian type people know of this and how the notion of hell came to be?
I am sure I read somewhere in the NT about eternal torment.

I bet this subject has come up before a few times.

There is no burning hell.

Jeremiah 19:5:They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

Jeremiah 32:35:And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

If God did not want his children to pass through fire unto Molech why would he burn his own children forever?

The grave is where Jacob expected to go.

Genesis 37:35:And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him.

Grave translated in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,Hebrew...

7585 sh'owl sheh-ole' or shol {sheh-ole'}; from 7592; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates:--grave, hell, pit.

Psalm 6:5:For in death there is no remembrance of thee:in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Translated ''Sheol'' as the same definition above.

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 38:18:[/FONT]For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into thepit cannot hope for thy truth.

Grave translated with same meaning as above.

Job describes it...

Job 3:11-19:11Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly? 12Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
13For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
14With kings and counsellors of the earth, which build desolate places for themselves;
15Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
16Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
17There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
18There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
19The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.




Here are some example of Hell and their translations in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.



Deuteronomy 32:22:For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.


Defined in Strong's Hebrew....


7585 sh'owl sheh-ole' or shol {sheh-ole'}; from 7592; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates:--grave, hell, pit.



2 Samuel 22:6:The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;


Defined as same as above in Strong's..


Job 11:8:It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?


Defined as same above in Strong's Hebrew section...


Job 26:6:Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.


Defined as same above in Strong's Hebrew section..


Psalm 9:17:The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


Defined as same as above in Strong's Hebrew section..


Numbers 16:30:But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.


Defined as same as above in Strong's Hebrew section..


Matthew 5:22:But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


Matthew 5:29:And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


Matthew 5:30:And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


Matthew 10:28:And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


These are translated in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,Greek section...


1067. geena gheh'-en-nah of Hebrew origin (1516 and 2011); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:--hell.



Gehenna was the burning dump outside Jerusalem where dead bodies of criminals and garbage was thrown into.




Acts 2:27:Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.


Acts 2:31:He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


This is translated differently it is translated...


86. haides hah'-dace from 1 (as negative particle) and 1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:--grave, hell.



Hades which is the equivalent of OT - Sheol.

 

[Chris]

wow that is quite abit to read through and understand thanks for posting that . That is going to take some reading and thinking on my part.

 

[westtexas]

There is no burning hell.

Sounds real pretty but unfortunately scripture disagrees.

If God did not want his children to pass through fire unto Molech why would he burn his own children forever?

Sounds real pretty again but unfortunately scripture says that not all are children of God.
John 8:42-44 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:..............Ye are of your father the devil..........." KJV

Westtexas

 

[Classik]

Isn't 'burning hell' as scary as 'the OT flood'?

 

[Classik]

I don't like this hellfire thing, honestly. But, it's a possibility. Are the Flood victims gone 'forever'?

 

[Chris]

I still have to get my head around this.



Either burning hell as a place of eternal torment and torture for gods creation not in Christ

Or plain old death in the ground without eternal life with Christ as option 2 it is confusing which the OT means.

 

[for_his_glory]

Many scriptures depict hell as fire and brimstone burning for eternity, but none of us actually knows what it will look like or what actually takes place there. There are actually over 38 scriptures from Genesis to revelation that speaks of hell. In my own minds eye I see hell as a place where those who have rejected God, whether they be good or bad people, burning in a torment (fire and brimstone could be a metaphor for torment) of having to see those who have heard the call of God and have accepted Him and now live in a place of paradise with all the fullness of God in all His glory. No more tears, no more hurts, pain sickness, etc, etc. Those in hell are outside the realm of God continuing in all their sin, sickness, hurts, pain tears, etc. etc., but can see those who are in the glory of the Lord like looking through a window and wanting what others have, but will never have it and this is their torment for eternity as they are constantly consumed with the fire that burns in their souls for what they have rejected and now to late to receive.

God said that he would that none should perish, but those who have rejected God and His word are those who will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity by their own choice, even if they do not believe in Heaven or Hell, we believe because we know that Gods word is truth and does not come back void in our lives.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hos 4:7 as they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 and I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 and I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 and he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 and he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 but the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[JJsaint]

Sounds real pretty but unfortunately scripture disagrees.


Sounds real pretty again but unfortunately scripture says that not all are children of God.
John 8:42-44 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:..............Ye are of your father the devil..........." KJV

Westtexas

Does that make the Jew literal children of the devil - read it in context?

Do a word study on satan/serpent/devil/lucifer - it represents men or systems not a fallen angel

 

[Free]

Do a word study on satan/serpent/devil/lucifer - it represents men or systems not a fallen angel

It is a being.

 

[JJsaint]

It is a being.

A human being?

 

[Free]

A human being?

No, but a created being, most likely a fallen angel.

 

[JJsaint]

No, but a created being, most likely a fallen angel.

Since when?

Do a word study on satan.

 

[D4Christ]

Isn't 'burning hell' as scary as 'the OT flood'?

I don't like this hellfire thing, honestly. But, it's a possibility. Are the Flood victims gone 'forever'?

As we know, prior to Christ those who died did not hear the gospel. Scriptures explain that when Christ was crucified he descended first before he rose to heaven. It also shows us that when Christ rose to heaven he led a group of people who had been held captive by sin.

Ephes 4:

7 However, he has given each one of us a special gift through the generosity of Christ. 8 That is why the Scriptures say,
“When he ascended to the heights,
he led a crowd of captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 Notice that it says “he ascended.” This clearly means that Christ also descended to our lowly world. 10 And the same one who descended is the one who ascended higher than all the heavens, so that he might fill the entire universe with himself.

1 Peter explains that Christ preached to those who were not saved during the OT floods.

1 Peter 3:

18 Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. 19 So he went and preached to the spirits in prison— 20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.

Blessings, Dee

 

[Free]

Since when?

Do a word study on satan.

Since forever. It means "accuser." And the context within which it is most used indicates that it most often refers to a single being, not a system or group of persons.

Anyway, let's not get off on a tangent since this is about hell, not Satan.

 

[JJsaint]

Since forever. It means "accuser." And the context within which it is most used indicates that it most often refers to a single being, not a system or group of persons.

Anyway, let's not get off on a tangent since this is about hell, not Satan.

It means ''adversary''

In context it refers to systems or men.

Hell and satan go together in modern teachings....

1 Chronicles 21:1:And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
2 Samuel 24:1:And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

satan in that passage means ''adversary'' - they are parallel accounts,in context God was the adversary against Israel

If you have a good Strong's Exhaustive Concordance in the Hebrew,Adversary is defined as...
7854 satan saw-tawn' from 7853; an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch-enemy of good:--adversary, Satan, withstand.

That passage is an example on how it is not a fallen angel - unless the mainstream teachings are right that on one account a fallen angel provoked David to number Israel and on another God moved David to number Israel???

 

[Free]

It means ''adversary''

In context it refers to systems or men.

Hell and satan go together in modern teachings....

1 Chronicles 21:1:And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
2 Samuel 24:1:And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

satan in that passage means ''adversary'' - they are parallel accounts,in context God was the adversary against Israel

If you have a good Strong's Exhaustive Concordance in the Hebrew,Adversary is defined as...
7854 satan saw-tawn' from 7853; an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch-enemy of good:--adversary, Satan, withstand.

That passage is an example on how it is not a fallen angel - unless the mainstream teachings are right that on one account a fallen angel provoked David to number Israel and on another God moved David to number Israel???

According to Strong's G4567, as found throughout the NT:

Satanas

sat-an-as'

Of Chaldee origin corresponding to G4566 (with the definite article affixed); the accuser, that is, the devil: - Satan.

According to Thayer:

Thayer Definition:
1) adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act), the name given to
1a) the prince of evil spirits, the inveterate adversary of God and Christ
1a1) he incites apostasy from God and to sin
1a2) circumventing men by his wiles
1a3) the worshippers of idols are said to be under his control
1a4) by his demons he is able to take possession of men and inflict them with diseases
1a5) by God’s assistance he is overcome
1a6) on Christ’s return from heaven he will be bound with chains for a thousand years, but when the thousand years are finished he will walk the earth in yet greater power, but shortly after will be given over to eternal punishment
1b) a Satan-like man

So, whether or not the passages you gave say what you think they say doesn't really matter. Clearly the word "Satan" is also used of a single being, the adversary, the accuser.

I am not going to discuss this further as it is not the topic of this thread.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

If God did not want his children to pass through fire unto Molech why would he burn his own children forever?

The catch is: not everyone qualifies as God's children. It is essential for people to undergo a second birth before they can be considered for acceptance into His family.

†. John 1:12-13 . .Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

In other words: the right to a place around the table in God's home isn't a human right but rather, a birthright.

BTW: a second birth isn't optional; no, it's a must if people are to have any hope at all of a better future.

†. John 3:3 . . I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born from above.

†. John 3:7 . .You must be born from above.

Cliff
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
If traditional Christianity is wrong; then what's to worry? I mean: Christadelphians, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Universalists et al; all say there's no hell and that if I should miss the cut; I would only be summarily annihilated instead of sentenced to a penal colony for perpetual suffering. Annihilation is not such a bad way to go. Compared to traditional Christianity's hell; it's relatively quick and painless: and afterwards I would be incapable of experiencing regrets or be aware that I'm missing out on anything. So you see there's relatively very little to fear in my continuing to believe that traditional Christianity's hell is real.

Cliff
/

 

[JJsaint]

.
If traditional Christianity is wrong; then what's to worry? I mean: Christadelphians, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Universalists et al; all say there's no hell and that if I should miss the cut; I would only be summarily annihilated instead of sentenced to a penal colony for perpetual suffering. Annihilation is not such a bad way to go. Compared to traditional Christianity's hell; it's relatively quick and painless: and afterwards I would be incapable of experiencing regrets or be aware that I'm missing out on anything. So you see there's relatively very little to fear in my continuing to believe that traditional Christianity's hell is real.

Cliff
/

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