Questions for those who think the RCC is the Whore.

Just a few questions for those who think the Roman Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.

Who is the Scarlet Beast?
Who are the 7 kings?
Who are the 10 horns?

More questions will follow depending on answers.
Repost because of site issues.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm confused.
How is this not making the whore and the son of perdition one and the same thing?

One is the beast out of the sea that gives its power to the beast out of the earth Rev 13.

 

[for_his_glory]

Babylon/The Whore is the economic system of the world. An economic system founded on pagan, godless desires and the love of this world. Christians are exhorted to not be caught up in it:

1 John 2:15-16
15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world.

James 1:4
4You adulteresses!b Do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore, whoever chooses to be a friend of the world renders himselfc an enemy of God.

I agree with this, but also to know the deeper meaning of who mystery Babylon (revived Roman Empire) is as the beast (Satan) and the harlot (those who partake of the beast as they ride on the back of this beast is all a part of this Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational, environmental and is a false religious system.

Rev 17 and 18 speaks of mystery Babylon as it is even a mystery to those today that have no understanding. In Rev 17 the great harlot rides the beast so the harlot can not be both the harlot and the beast. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them as even today these nations are controlled by the revived Roman Empire, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13, 17, that would love nothing less then to escape this ruling power.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 17, 18, 19 the great harlot (son of perdition) is described and then destroyed along with the beast being the existing Roman Empire. The earth bewails their destruction as they were made rich by the woman. In the NT the term woman is used as a symbol for a church. The woman mentioned in Rev 12 is the true Church of God as she is carried away into the wilderness and taken care of by God.

This woman in Rev 17 sitting on a Scarlett beast is a spiritual harlot as she entered into adulterous alliances with the leaders and kings of every nation around the world including America. Rev 18 describes all these worldly leaders and kings fornicated with her and will bewail her destruction. In her was found the blood of the prophets and the saints and all that were slain on earth.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

We know there are pagan elements of worship in various Christian religions. I'm saying the harlot economic system is not a Christian religion. Not the real Christian religion or a false one. It is a Babylonian pagan system. Thus it's designation as 'Babylon'. Babylonian worship is pagan worship through and through.

The Babylonian pagan system could have a false front of any kind, including a Christian one. Jesus warned that many false prophets will rise and deceive many in His name, and THE false prophet in Rev. 13 is described as a lamb but he speaks like the dragon, that means looking like Christ but speaking like the devil.

 

[Davos]

In historic view, ten kings are the ten Germanic tribes that divided the Roman Empire, seven heads are the seven empires that have oppressed Israel (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Roman Empire and the papacy), and then there's the eighth which is "of the seven", that's the final global government, the revived Roman Empire whose deadly wound is miraculously healed, it looks like a new one, but it's still "of the seven", think of it as a fake resurrection. The RCC is identified as the Whore of Babylon because obviously the city of Rome is built on seven hills, many of their pagan practices can be traced back to ancient Babylon, scarlet and purple are the colors of bishops' apparel, and the numeric value of the Pope's title in Latin is exactly 666. The 1260 days are 1260 years from 536 to 1796.

As a disclaimer, this is a popular belief among most protestants, but I hold it with a grain of salt. All of these are just circumstantial evidence, the only thing that holds a little water is the interpretation of the seven heads.

In the historic view, the seven heads were seven different phases of the Rome, beginning with kings. They could not be other empires because they come under the fourth, Roman, Beast of Daniel seven. My previous pastor thought that they were Egypt etc, but he wasn't a true historcist, but believed in the seven parallel visions. He believed that Mystery Babylon is actual Babylon. I didn't hear him preach on Revelation as he was only at the church a short time after we moved here, but he did have all the notes of his sermons printed as booklets. Our present pastor believes in the seven parallel visions, but thinks Mystery Babylon is world governments.

 

[for_his_glory]

In the historic view, the seven heads were seven different phases of the Rome, beginning with kings. They could not be other empires because they come under the fourth, Roman, Beast of Daniel seven. My previous pastor thought that they were Egypt etc, but he wasn't a true historcist, but believed in the seven parallel visions. He believed that Mystery Babylon is actual Babylon. I didn't hear him preach on Revelation as he was only at the church a short time after we moved here, but he did have all the notes of his sermons printed as booklets. Our present pastor believes in the seven parallel visions, but thinks Mystery Babylon is world governments.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today as you notice the countries in parenthesis.

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon's Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

In the historic view, the seven heads were seven different phases of the Rome, beginning with kings. They could not be other empires because they come under the fourth, Roman, Beast of Daniel seven. My previous pastor thought that they were Egypt etc, but he wasn't a true historcist, but believed in the seven parallel visions. He believed that Mystery Babylon is actual Babylon. I didn't hear him preach on Revelation as he was only at the church a short time after we moved here, but he did have all the notes of his sermons printed as booklets. Our present pastor believes in the seven parallel visions, but thinks Mystery Babylon is world governments.

I find that hard to believe. Of the seven kings, five have fallen, one was reigning at apostle John's time, one was to come, and the final one is "of the seven", which is the little horn, and based on chapter 13, he's still the seventh whose deadly wound is miraculously healed, and he's leading the ten kings, which are the ten horns in Daniel's vision and ten toes in king Nebuchadnezzar's vision. In apostle John's vision, though, the indescribable fourth beast is a mishmash of the three previous beasts (lion's head, leopard's body, bear's feet), so the seven heads being seven empires fit both the biblical text and historical record.

 

[Davos]

I find that hard to believe. Of the seven kings, five have fallen, one was reigning at apostle John's time, one was to come, and the final one is "of the seven", which is the little horn, and based on chapter 13, he's still the seventh whose deadly wound is miraculously healed, and he's leading the ten kings, which are the ten horns in Daniel's vision and ten toes in king Nebuchadnezzar's vision. In apostle John's vision, though, the indescribable fourth beast is a mishmash of the three previous beasts (lion's head, leopard's body, bear's feet), so the seven heads being seven empires fit both the biblical text and historical record.

No. He is the eighth. He is of the seven but is the eighth.

Rome fell to the ten gothic kings, and the beast Roman power was dead, but it was revived in the papacy. The early Church writers understood this and recorded it even though it was future to them.

 

[Davos]

Seven remaining nations that still exist today as you notice the countries in parenthesis.

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon's Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The 4th indescribable beast is Rome, so the seven heads must all come under Rome.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No. He is the eighth. He is of the seven but is the eighth.

Rome fell to the ten gothic kings, and the beast Roman power was dead, but it was revived in the papacy. The early Church writers understood this and recorded it even though it was future to them.

This doesn’t match king Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, where there were at least three distinct phases of the Roman Empire - two iron legs, that’s the Byzantine empire and the papacy, also representing imperialism; two feet of iron and clay mixture, could be the Cold War era, new nations liberated from imperial control; and at last, the ten toes, the ten kings. You can’t just wrap all these complex history into one and label all of it as the papacy.

 

[Davos]

M

This doesn’t match king Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, where there were at least three distinct phases of the Roman Empire - two iron legs, that’s the Byzantine empire and the papacy, also representing imperialism; two feet of iron and clay mixture, could be the Cold War era, new nations liberated from imperial control; and at last, the ten toes, the ten kings. You can’t just wrap all these complex history into one and label all of it as the papacy.

I didn't, the iron and clay of the 10 toes has never stuck together, there have been many attempts to unite Europe over the centuries, the latest being Hitler, then now the EU, but even that is not entirely united. Daniel 7 expands on Nebuchadnezzar's dream on the eighth king is of the 7, a revived Roman Empire.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

M

I didn't, the iron and clay of the 10 toes has never stuck together, there have been many attempts to unite Europe over the centuries, the latest being Hitler, then now the EU, but even that is not entirely united. Daniel 7 expands on Nebuchadnezzar's dream on the eighth king is of the 7, a revived Roman Empire.

And once again, you forgot that western Europe does NOT represent the whole wide world. Also, only the two feet are mixture of iron and clay, the two legs are iron only.

 

[Davos]

And once again, you forgot that western Europe does NOT represent the whole wide world. Also, only the two feet are mixture of iron and clay, the two legs are iron only.

Do you think that when it gets more power it won't want to spread throughout the world? It has obtained by stealth practically everything that Hitler got by war. The great mistake the Axis powers made was that Japan attacked America instead of the USSR. Then probably the UK Wouldham fallen and the USA would have been next.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Do you think that when it gets more power it won't want to spread throughout the world? It has obtained by stealth practically everything that Hitler got by war. The great mistake the Axis powers made was that Japan attacked America instead of the USSR. Then probably the UK Wouldham fallen and the USA would have been next.

There may be some kind of a global cabal like illuminati behind the scene, but that's not the papacy. I don't see any power that the Vatican has in Asia from the middle east to the far east.

 

[Davos]

There may be some kind of a global cabal like illuminati behind the scene, but that's not the papacy. I don't see any power that the Vatican has in Asia from the middle east to the far east.

Wherever the papacy has members it has power

 

[follower]

There may be some kind of a global cabal like illuminati behind the scene, but that's not the papacy. I don't see any power that the Vatican has in Asia from the middle east to the far east.

Note that you posted: "behind the scene"....
i.e. not meant to be identified or recognized as in power,
but definitely directing the world's leaders from top to bottom.

 

[follower]

Do you think that when it gets more power it won't want to spread throughout the world? It has obtained by stealth practically everything that Hitler got by war.

Every war and conflict stirred up, initiated, propagated , in order to gain power - taking both sides to end up on the winning side, encouraging strife and dissension no matter where or who....

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Note that you posted: "behind the scene"....
i.e. not meant to be identified or recognized as in power,
but definitely directing the world's leaders from top to bottom.

Then that might be the WEF, world economic forums, not the pope. The Antichrist will only be revealed at the end when the church "falls away", 2 Thess. 2:3. The Antichrist is called the "son of perdition", and there's only one man who's ever been called that title, which is none other than Judas. When Judas led the soldiers to the garden, the disciples all fled, and that was when Judas was revealed as the traitor. The great tribulation will be very similar to that situation, where the whole church is in a deep spiritual slumber, and the traitor among us rats us out to the authority.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Wherever the papacy has members it has power

You've really overestimated the papacy's power and influence. Lately I've learnt some history of the tumultuous Stuart period over the 17th century, the Reformation was first and foremost a political movement, the main conflict of the civil wars in that period was about politics, Protestants were like nationalists, Catholics were kind of like globalists, they both used religion to form their own identities and fight for political power, any theology difference was just a facade. The key objective of the Protestant elites was to secede from Rome and take control over the church in England. Initially king Henry VIII wanted to divorce Katherine of Aragon who failed to produce a male heir to secure the throne, pope didn't allow it, that pissed off the king, and the religous elites who were already sick and tired of the papacy took that as a golden opportunity to formally severe the tie with Rome, and Henry VIII became the pope of his own country, and this permanently changed the course of British history and the world history. Just to be clear, I'm not defending the papacy, but this whole narrative of the papacy being the Antichrist is more or less a Protestant political propaganda against the Catholic factions, that's when and where it was originated. By no means did that make the Protestant faction closer to God or holier than the Catholics.

 

[BB1956]

You've really overestimated the papacy's power and influence. Lately I've learnt some history of the tumultuous Stuart period over the 17th century, the Reformation was first and foremost a political movement, the main conflict of the civil wars in that period was about politics, Protestants were like nationalists, Catholics were kind of like globalists, they both used religion to form their own identities and fight for political power, any theology difference was just a facade. The key objective of the Protestant elites was to secede from Rome and take control over the church in England. Initially king Henry VIII wanted to divorce Katherine of Aragon who failed to produce a male heir to secure the throne, pope didn't allow it, that pissed off the king, and the religous elites who were already sick and tired of the papacy took that as a golden opportunity to formally severe the tie with Rome, and Henry VIII became the pope of his own country, and this permanently changed the course of British history and the world history. Just to be clear, I'm not defending the papacy, but this whole narrative of the papacy being the Antichrist is more or less a Protestant political propaganda against the Catholic factions, that's when and where it was originated. By no means did that make the Protestant faction closer to God or holier than the Catholics.

Babylon the great(the whore) is the global Empire of false religion. I agree that the RCC is included in the global Empire of false religion. But I also believe the protestant religions are part of Babylon the great as well.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Babylon the great(the whore) is the global Empire of false religion. I agree that the RCC is included in the global Empire of false religion. But I also believe the protestant religions are part of Babylon the great as well.

Yeah, Pastor Brandon said the RCC, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant are the three measures of meal, and all three are leavened. Protestant church is associated with the dead church of Sardis, it had a great name, but it was spiritually dead.

Another parable He spoke to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.” (Matt. 13:33)