Rapture Theory

[Deborah13]

That is why I participate in the A&T forum. If I state my views and then allow others to question me about them so that I have to support them, then I either have a stronger belief in my view than I did before or I change my view because I now can see where it is not supported by the scriptures.

 

[JLB]

First the only doctrine I have is that of Gods word alone. These studies I do are strictly from the word of God and not mans doctrines or commentaries. I can not find anywhere in scripture that speaks of a seven year trib period. From the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call the Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it; (Ref: Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36). These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Revelation Chapters 6-21.

There is no literal 1000-year millennium reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him, Romans 8:17; 2Peter 3:8. Why would Jesus bring us back down to Earth for another 1000 years before ushering down the new heaven and new Jerusalem. Our timing of hours and days are not that of Gods timing.

Why would Jesus bring us back down to Earth for another 1000 years before ushering down the new heaven and new Jerusalem.

The Millennium is the Day of Rest.

The seventh Day; The Seventh Thousandth Year.

We will enjoy the 1000 years in our immortal bodies with our Lord, as it was intended for the earth, as it is in heaven.

After the 1000 years we will have a new heaven and new earth, in which we will continue to be here.


JLB

 

[JLB]

That is why I participate in the A&T forum. If I state my views and then allow others to question me about them so that I have to support them, then I either have a stronger belief in my view than I did before or I change my view because I now can see where it is not supported by the scriptures.

Ok Deb.

Please change your views, so that they line up with mine, and there won't be any trouble.

The trouble seems to start when you have a different view than me.

I would have thought that you would have understood this by now.









JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Why would Jesus bring us back down to Earth for another 1000 years before ushering down the new heaven and new Jerusalem.

The Millennium is the Day of Rest.

The seventh Day; The Seventh Thousandth Year.

We will enjoy the 1000 years in our immortal bodies with our Lord, as it was intended for the earth, as it is in heaven.

After the 1000 years we will have a new heaven and new earth, in which we will continue to be here.


JLB

Where on Earth are we to be during this so called literal 1000 year Millennium, because the New Heaven and New Jerusalem according to what you have said would not be ushered down yet. This would mean that Earth as we know it now will still be the same until that time. It's when Satan is cast into the lake of fire that the New Heaven and New Jerusalem will come down and then we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[Deborah13]

Ok Deb.

Please change your views, so that they line up with mine, and there won't be any trouble.

The trouble seems to start when you have a different view than me.

I would have thought that you would have understood this by now.









JLB

 

[Eugene]

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:16 is the resurrection of those who have died in Christ.
Rev 20:5 says that it is the first resurrection
1TH 4:17 says after the dead in Christ are resurrected Then those who are alive will be caught up

How could the resurrection in 1Th 4:16 happen before the resurrection in Rev 20 which is the first one?

Here we are given the illustration of the two resurrections.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The first resurrection consists of all the righteous dead including those that are beheaded at the beginning of the millennium so as to be able to reign with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

The second resurrection are the wicked dead brought back to life after the millennium.
Rev 20:5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

The following scripture describes the manner of it of the first resurrection.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

To me the order of the first resurrection is in the following scripture.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Who are the believers raised incorruptible?
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

These are also the righteous of the earth that became believers during the millennium when there will be no more death. 1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

If there is a last trump, does it not insinuate there are previous trumps? When are they most apt to take place concerning the manner of the resurrection? Starting in Revelation John is caught up into heaven to observe things to be hereafter from that time, and he describes different saints arriving at different times, but the manner will remain constant with each group in that the dead will rise first, and those alive when Jesus comes in the air will be caught up with them. That occurs with the twenty-four elders & the four beasts. the great multitude, and the one hundred and forty-four thousand. Thanks for your question.

My thoughts.

 

[Deborah13]

Here we are given the illustration of the two resurrections.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The first resurrection consists of all the righteous dead including those that are beheaded at the beginning of the millennium so as to be able to reign with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

The second resurrection are the wicked dead brought back to life after the millennium.
Rev 20:5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

The following scripture describes the manner of it of the first resurrection.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

To me the order of the first resurrection is in the following scripture.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Who are the believers raised incorruptible?
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

These are also the righteous of the earth that became believers during the millennium when there will be no more death. 1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

If there is a last trump, does it not insinuate there are previous trumps? When are they most apt to take place concerning the manner of the resurrection? Starting in Revelation John is caught up into heaven to observe things to be hereafter from that time, and he describes different saints arriving at different times, but the manner will remain constant with each group in that the dead will rise first, and those alive when Jesus comes in the air will be caught up with them. That occurs with the twenty-four elders & the four beasts. the great multitude, and the one hundred and forty-four thousand. Thanks for your question.

My thoughts.

And thank you for explaining so well. I have considered this very thing myself in the past and have not rejected it and maybe won't.
Blessings to you Eugene

 

[Kathi]

First let me put you at ease, I am just responding to your post and not expecting you to defend your position any more than you have.
I agree with you that 1 Thess. 45:16-17 and 1 Corinth. 15:50-54 are indeed the same event.
I agree with you that these scriptures do not say that Jesus' feet touch the earth.
I agree with you that this resurrection is only those who are in Christ.

So my point would be... the ones who died and did not take the mark of the beast are also in Christ. When are they resurrected?

They will be resurrected at the end of the Millenium.

 

[Kathi]

I very seldom post in End Times unless I am lead by the Holy Spirit to do so. I knew when I posted this thread there would be a lot of debate and not everyone is going to agree with each other. This is why we share scriptures and explain what we believe so each one of us can go read and study them comparing scripture with scripture. It's more than just reading the scriptures, but digging deep into them. It took me ten years of deep study to come up with the things I have written and posted. As long as we keep this a friendly debate (not saying it hasn't been so far) we all might see and learn something we have never known before.

Yes,it should be a friendly debate.For someone to tell everyone else that they are wrong and they are the only one who is right is not a friendly debate.

 

[Kathi]

It will be in the twinkling of an eye, but also not until the seventh trumpet is blown. 1Corinthians 15:52; Rev 11:15-19.
Can you give me scripture that states a second coming after we are caught up with Christ in the air as all I see is two resurrections. One being that of those who are asleep in the Lord and then another of those who are asleep that are not found written in the book of life. 1Thessalonians 4:16; John 5:28, 29.

You might want to review the post of "The difference in the rapture and the second coming".I think it is in this forum.

 

[JLB]

Where on Earth are we to be during this so called literal 1000 year Millennium, because the New Heaven and New Jerusalem according to what you have said would not be ushered down yet. This would mean that Earth as we know it now will still be the same until that time. It's when Satan is cast into the lake of fire that the New Heaven and New Jerusalem will come down and then we will be with the Lord forever.

During the 1000 year Day of Rest, we will be here on earth shining like the sun, with our immortal resurrected bodies that will never die.

The wicked and lawless people will have been cast into hell.

1000 years of a sinless , resurrected, immortal body that will never die to enjoy heaven on earth.

A true Sabbath rest.


JLB

 

[reba]

Lawless ? really JLB just kidding.... With no sun how is time counted?

 

[Kathi]

During the 1000 year Day of Rest, we will be here on earth shining like the sun, with our immortal resurrected bodies that will never die.

The wicked and lawless people will have been cast into hell.

1000 years of a sinless , resurrected, immortal body that will never die to enjoy heaven on earth.

A true Sabbath rest.


JLB

Their will be those who will rebel against Christ during those 1000 years.I did not think that the Great White Throne judgment and people thrown into hell was until the end of the Millenium.

 

[Eugene]

First the only doctrine I have is that of Gods word alone. These studies I do are strictly from the word of God and not mans doctrines or commentaries. I can not find anywhere in scripture that speaks of a seven year trib period. From the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call the Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it; (Ref: Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36). These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Revelation Chapters 6-21.

There is no literal 1000-year millennium reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him, Romans 8:17; 2Peter 3:8. Why would Jesus bring us back down to Earth for another 1000 years before ushering down the new heaven and new Jerusalem. Our timing of hours and days are not that of Gods timing.

for_his_glory - First the only doctrine I have is that of Gods word alone.

Eugene – Thanks dear sister, and I hope to use scripture.

for_his_glory - I can not find anywhere in scripture that speaks of a seven year trib period.

Eugene – Do you take into consideration Daniel’s prophesies of end times? I do, and so will at least give a couple related to them.

I hope to establish the fact that with Israel God used year/day counting as per Ezekiel 4:6 . . . I have appointed thee each day for a year, and that can be proved in the 490 years of Daniel 9:25 beginning in 444 BC when Artaxerxes sent forth a decree for the rebuilding of Jerusalem in Neh 2:6. until Jesus rode an ass into Jerusalem. Zech 9:9. Okay so far?

Daniel 9:26. I’m using this scripture to set the timeline for this prophesy. "And after threescore and two weeks (When the sixty-two weeks is completely finished) shall Messiah be cut off." That occurred at the cross, and then "And the people of the prince that shall come (After Jesus’ death) shall destroy the city." Which city, what prince, and when? Jerusalem, Satan, and in 70 AD.

Dan 9:27 And he (This isn't Jesus, but that prince that shall come) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years): and in the midst of the week (3 ½ yrs) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (Of what?), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Dear sister, I’ll have to consider the remainder of your reply based upon your answers to my reply here. Thanks.

 

[veryberry]

Isaiah 26: 19-21

19. The dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

[veryberry]

In Galatians 1:8 Paul says...But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Now Paul's gospel by which we are saved is found in 1 Cor. 15: 3-4 which reads:
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

But, in Rev 14: 6-7 we have an angel preaching another gospel
6. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Will this angel be cursed? Will the gospel by which we are saved preached by Paul, become null and void for us and now we will be saved by the new everlasting gospel?


What are you doing to help you "endure to the end"? Only the Jews in Petra will be fed and protected by God(I believe). Do you have enough food stored up, maybe some type of hidden shelter prepared out in the middle of nowhere to protect you and your family hopefully until the end? Maybe I am wrong about this stuff. But maybe, it is something we all need to start thinking about. I think the stage is being set for that time to come soon. If the rapture is false, maybe this is something we need to start thinking about and quit wasting our time on these forums. This could happen any day now. We know its coming, why not start getting prepared for it...?

 

[The Gospels]

the fact is, is that these are the last days, just as the bible states, Christ has come a second time already to defeat the beast and false prophet, now judgment day will come with him seated on the white throne as he said in Matthew. then I think the end of the world and heaven will come, and there will be a new earth and new heaven.. blessings!!

 

[veryberry]

the fact is, is that these are the last days, just as the bible states, Christ has come a second time already to defeat the beast and false prophet, now judgment day will come with him seated on the white throne as he said in Matthew. then I think the end of the world and heaven will come, and there will be a new earth and new heaven.. blessings!!

When did Christ come a second time and defeat the beast? How come I don't know about this amazing event? How far into the 1000 years are we?

 

[JLB]

Their will be those who will rebel against Christ during those 1000 years.I did not think that the Great White Throne judgment and people thrown into hell was until the end of the Millenium.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:31-34,41


This is the Olivet discourse, where jesus is speaking to His disciples privately about His coming and the end of the age.


When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory...

This is the coming of the Lord to gather his people at the resurrection/rapture.


JLB

 

[reba]

the fact is, is that these are the last days, just as the bible states, Christ has come a second time already to defeat the beast and false prophet, now judgment day will come with him seated on the white throne as he said in Matthew. then I think the end of the world and heaven will come, and there will be a new earth and new heaven.. blessings!!

When did this happen?