Bible Study Rapture

[for_his_glory]

Do you believe in a future literal 1000 year millennium, where mortal humans will be present, as Jesus Christ sits upon a earthly throne?

No I do not. Revelation 20:1-8 is the only passage in the entire scriptures that the premillinialists have as the basis for the "1000 year reign." Rev 20:4 doesn't speak about a 1000 year reign of Christ it says "and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." It's not Christ that reigns 1000 years, but those who were killed for God's sake that reign with Christ 1000 years as 1000 being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

 

[Truth7t7]

No I do not. Revelation 20:1-8 is the only passage in the entire scriptures that the premillinialists have as the basis for the "1000 year reign." Rev 20:4 doesn't speak about a 1000 year reign of Christ it says "and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." It's not Christ that reigns 1000 years, but those who were killed for God's sake that reign with Christ 1000 years as 1000 being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

I see a future 3.5 year tribulation on earth, Jesus Returns at the end of this in fire and judgment, as judgment and the eternal kingdom begins in the twinkling of an eye.

 

[for_his_glory]

I see a future 3.5 year tribulation on earth, Jesus Returns at the end of this in fire and judgment, as judgment and the eternal kingdom begins in the twinkling of an eye.

I agree as Jesus said He would return on the last day, John 6:40, and this will be the time of the resurrection of the saints who are asleep in their grave and joined with those who are still alive at His coming, John 5:28, 29. There is only one resurrection, but two different judgements at that time as we who are of Christ will be caught up to Him first and be with Him forever and those who are none of His will stand in God's judgement as they will be cast into the lake of fire, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 2 Thessalonians 4:13-18 .

I believe that when the seventh trumpet sounds this will be a 3 1/2 year period of that which is described in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 and Rev 13. The end will be that of Christ who at the time of His return destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire, Rev 19, and the binding Satan for a time as we are gathered to Him, Rev 20. Satan will then be released to try to devour the saints, but those nations he sends out against them will be devoured by the fire sent down from heaven and Satan cast into the lake of fire. Then the kingdoms of this world will become the Kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ as He will reign forever with Him in the New Jerusalem, Rev 11:15; 20:7-10; 21:1-8.

 

[JLB]

Is that Matthew 25:31-46, where Jesus Will Return To judge?

To Judge and reign and rule for 1000 years, with His people.



JLB

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree as Jesus said He would return on the last day, John 6:40, and this will be the time of the resurrection of the saints who are asleep in their grave and joined with those who are still alive at His coming, John 5:28, 29. There is only one resurrection, but two different judgements at that time as we who are of Christ will be caught up to Him first and be with Him forever and those who are none of His will stand in God's judgement as they will be cast into the lake of fire, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 2 Thessalonians 4:13-18 .

I believe that when the seventh trumpet sounds this will be a 3 1/2 year period of that which is described in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 and Rev 13. The end will be that of Christ who at the time of His return destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire, Rev 19, and the binding Satan for a time as we are gathered to Him, Rev 20. Satan will then be released to try to devour the saints, but those nations he sends out against them will be devoured by the fire sent down from heaven and Satan cast into the lake of fire. Then the kingdoms of this world will become the Kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ as He will reign forever with Him in the New Jerusalem, Rev 11:15; 20:7-10; 21:1-8.

I believe the 7th Trump & Vial represents the second coming, final judgment by fire, eternal kingdom revealed, in the twinkling of an eye on the Last Day.

It appears you don't see the 7th Trump & Vial in the same view, but you appear to have human life beyond this with Satan being released then a final judgment?

I don't believe the book of Revelation is in chronological order, as

Revelation 10:6-7KJV
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 16:17KJV
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[JLB]

I believe the 7th Trump is the second coming, final judgment by fire, eternal kingdom revealed, in the twinkling of an eye on the Last day.

Amen.


Peter says it this way -

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3:10-13



Paul -


3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:3-10

• the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

JLB

 

[Truth7t7]

To Judge and reign and rule for 1000 years, with His people.



JLB

1.) Will mortal humans be present in this 1000 year kingdom?

2.) Will This 1000 year kingdom be on this existing physical earth?

 

[JLB]

Will mortal humans be present in this 1000 year kingdom?

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:7-10

These verse teach us after the 1000 years there will be a rebellion against the Lord rd and the saints instigated by the release of the Satan.

I don’t see the term “mortal humans” used in these passages.

Will This 1000 year kingdom be on this existing physical earth?

Yes.

 

[Truth7t7]

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:7-10

These verse teach us after the 1000 years there will be a rebellion against the Lord rd and the saints instigated by the release of the Satan.

I don’t see the term “mortal humans” used in these passages.





Yes.

In your 1000 year kingdom on this earth, will there be "Human Beings" that will have bodies as we maintain today, flesh, bone, blood?

If so will these humans be living and dying physical death in the 1000 year time period?

 

[JLB]

In your 1000 year kingdom on this earth, will there be "Human Beings" that will have bodies as we maintain today, flesh, bone, blood?

If so will these humans be living and dying physical death in the 1000 year time period?

These saints will have resurrected immortal bodies, that are flesh and bone.

I don't see anywhere in scripture where there will be humans with flesh and blood on earth.

However that doesn't neccessarily mean there won't be.


I just don't see how, since the wicked will have been cast into hell, and the saints will have immortal bodies that will never die.


JLB

 

[Truth7t7]

These saints will have resurrected immortal bodies, that are flesh and bone.

I don't see anywhere in scripture where there will be humans with flesh and blood on earth.

However that doesn't neccessarily mean there won't be.


I just don't see how, since the wicked will have been cast into hell, and the saints will have immortal bodies that will never die.


JLB

You believe in a 1000 year kingdom on this existing earth, that is in decay?

Jesus Returns, eternal immortal resurrected saints are now inhabiting this earth with dying animals, fish, birds, mammals etc around them?

How many times do you believe the wicked will be judged to eternal damnation by Jesus Christ?

One general judgment, or multiple different judgments?

You state you believe John 5:28-29, this teaches on future final judgment?

"ALL THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES SHALL COME DORTH, SOME TO ETERNAL LIFE, AND SOME TO ETERNAL DAMNATION"?

 

[JLB]

You believe in a 1000 year kingdom on this existing earth, that is in decay?

Now you've added "decay".


What happened to the fire that destroys at His coming.

• both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3:10-13



JLB

 

[Truth7t7]

Now you've added "decay".


What happened to the fire that destroys at His coming.

• both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3:10-13



JLB

Ok we are getting somewhere now.

I believe final judgment takes place at the return of Jesus Christ by fire, 2 Peter 3:10-13 is this final judgment "Eternity Begins"

Satan and the wicked are in the Lake Of Fire, Righteous In The Eternal New Heaven And Earth.

However you have wicked living beyond this point, and yet another judgment 1000 years later as Satan is released and rebels, and has a wicked group following him in rebellion?

 

[JLB]

Ok we are getting somewhere now.

I believe final judgment takes place at the return of Jesus Christ by fire, 2 Peter 3:10-13 is this final judgment "Eternity Begins"

Satan and the wicked are in the Lake Of Fire, Righteous In The Eternal New Heaven And Earth.

However you have wicked living beyond this point, and yet another judgment 1000 years later as Satan is released and rebels, and has a wicked group following him in rebellion?

Zechariah 14 -

(5) Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You.

• Jesus returns from Heaven with the saints, at the resurrection and rapture.

(9) And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—“The Lord is one,” And His name one.

• The Lord is seated on His throne in Jerusalem as King over the earth, and has destroyed His enemies.

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

• Then there seems to be a stirring of rebellion even while Jesus who has conquered all is seated as King.

JLB

 

[ezra]

Come on ezra as there is no call for that. Even though we do not agree in all things we are still a brother and sister in Christ that needs not poke each other, but better be walking in love.

its just a poke i dont mind the discussions but it was escalating to the point every one was right and i was wrong...even after time after time i said i could be wrong and you could be wrong..we all could be wrong,but as long as we are ready we will never be wrong... what is sad none could agree with that . all the more reason to not comment . if i use the poke it is out of a friendly razz . had i used this it would have been more than a poke. i seldom let a post get to the point of being personnel. how ever one poster seemed to think they proved i had no idea what i was talking about . at that point i would not have used a poke .
something in this section needs to reminded of a church sing reads if everyone in this church {forum} was just like me. what kind of church/ forum would it be? i dont expect everyone to jump on my band wagon... what i do expect is respect for my belief. because i respect yours

 

[for_his_glory]

It appears you don't see the 7th Trump & Vial in the same view, but you appear to have human life beyond this with Satan being released then a final judgment?

All things will come to an end during the seventh trumpet as the vile judgements are the last judgments that fall on men in hopes that they will repent and turn back to God before Christ returns on the last day. Notice in Rev 16:17 as the seventh angel pours out its vile that God says "It is done". I take this to say God is saying here is your last chance to repent before Christ returns.

When the seventh trumpet sounds the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of God and His Christ as the enemies are made His footstool as Christ will rule the nations at this time, Psalms 110:1, 2; Rev 11:15, as God's final judgement upon men will be the seven vile judgements, Rev 16:1-21.

There is human life at the end of the vial judgements as I see it being God giving them a final chance to repent before Christ returns. Who are they of all the nations that Satan will gather to fight against the camp of the saints in Rev 20:7-9 if all the enemy of God are dead?

 

[ezra]

Ok we are getting somewhere now.

I believe final judgment takes place at the return of Jesus Christ by fire, 2 Peter 3:10-13 is this final judgment "Eternity Begins"

Satan and the wicked are in the Lake Of Fire, Righteous In The Eternal New Heaven And Earth.

However you have wicked living beyond this point, and yet another judgment 1000 years later as Satan is released and rebels, and has a wicked group following him in rebellion?

this is how i tend to believe .. only the thousand year reign i am still at a cross road . the church i attend the pastor does not believe Jesus will ever step foot on this earth again

 

[Truth7t7]

Zechariah 14 -

(5) Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You.

• Jesus returns from Heaven with the saints, at the resurrection and rapture.

(9) And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—“The Lord is one,” And His name one.

• The Lord is seated on His throne in Jerusalem as King over the earth, and has destroyed His enemies.

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

• Then there seems to be a stirring of rebellion even while Jesus who has conquered all is seated as King.

JLB

Ok we ran around the bush five times to end up in a kingdom where there will be "Human's" that rebel, mixed with righteous eternal immortals, saved, 1000 years later Satan is loosed, final rebellion, and a final judgment again?

You hold pretty close to the standard dispensationilist teaching, after running around the bush a few times.

 

[ezra]

You weren't supposed to be confident with my hog wash; only consider it. One day the prodigal son must accept the hog wash lest he continue basking in the pig slop.

ez when i say i am fed up with your hogwash .i am fed up with your post . i am not interested in your poetry. you asked some of the most uneducated questions i have seen in a while . you see i am a pan millennial live your life for Jesus every thing will pan out

 

[Truth7t7]

All things will come to an end during the seventh trumpet as the vile judgements are the last judgments that fall on men in hopes that they will repent and turn back to God before Christ returns on the last day. Notice in Rev 16:17 as the seventh angel pours out its vile that God says "It is done". I take this to say God is saying here is your last chance to repent before Christ returns.

When the seventh trumpet sounds the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of God and His Christ as the enemies are made His footstool as Christ will rule the nations at this time, Psalms 110:1, 2; Rev 11:15, as God's final judgement upon men will be the seven vile judgements, Rev 16:1-21.

There is human life at the end of the vial judgements as I see it being God giving them a final chance to repent before Christ returns. Who are they of all the nations that Satan will gather to fight against the camp of the saints in Rev 20:7-9 if all the enemy of God are dead?

Ok we disagree, I believe The 7th Angel In Vials And Trump is the exact same event of the end of this world, last day.

Revelation 16:17 "It Is Done" and Revelation 11:15 He Shall Reign For Ever And Ever" same exact event of the end of this world.