Bible Study Rapture

[ezrider]

In post # 361 you said: "Actually, the children of darkness and the children of disobedience try to warn others of God's consuming fire and great wrath." and again here.


Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Those in Christ and He in them by His Spirit are children of the light and not of darkness. Those of darkness are none of His as their names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

You can keep quoting the scripture all that you want, that doesn't mean you understand it. You can claim to be a child of the light, but that does not make it so. Our fruits are before us and we speak what we know. The children of darkness speak of the wrath and judgement of God, for that is their earnest expectation. But the children of light know no wrath, but are the children of salvation and children of the kingdom.

Do you even know what the "shadow of darkness" is?

 

[JLB]

So now you ask for multiple signs? One sign isn't enough for you? Oh ye of little faith, I already told you that no sign shall be given except for the sign of Jonah. Why do you keep asking? For it is an evil and wicked generation that seeks after a sign.

Jesus thought it was necessary to give us several signs, that we are to watch for.


I asked you, in response to your accusation, in which you said it was fleshly to watch for the signs Jesus gave.


You claimed we should be listening to the voice of the friend of the bridegroom.

As this thread is discussing signs of the coming of the Lord, then shouldn't we be listening for the voice of the friend of the bridegroom? Prepare ye the way of the Lord!

I have asked the question before, but everyone seems to be solely focused on signs in the world that are of the flesh. That which is of the flesh is flesh, and that which is of the spirit is spirit. If you were listening for the voice of the friend of the bridegroom, then what would it sound like? A voice crying in the wilderness... what would you expect to hear?

Anyone?

So again I ask, since you keep claiming that the signs Jesus gave are somehow fleshly, please share with us, what signs do we need to be watching for, if not the signs Jesus gave us.



JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

The resurrection comes be fore (at the same time, in the twinkling of an eye, immediately) the rapture, in which both are caught together in the air to be with the Lord.

This occurs at the coming of the Lord.

• we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

• we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together (at the same time) with them (Yes, this is the Church He is speaking of)

 

[JLB]

There is no signs for the rapture, it will come as a thief in the night,

Why do you keep saying that?

Again, Paul says the coming of the Lord, and the resurrection and rapture, will not come as a thief in the night, for the Church.


Please read these words:

• But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Paul plainly states that the resurrection and rapture, occurs at the coming of the Lord

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night for unbelievers, not for believers.

• For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them

Full Context:

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4



JLB

 

[ezrider]

You just don't get it. The warning of God's great wrath is not to scare people, but to hopefully bring them to Christ before the door of God's salvation is closed forever. This is what Jesus spoke in Matthew 24 and in greater detail in the revealing in Revelations as signs we are to watch for. These are not my words, but the very words of Christ written for all who will have ears to hear. I can't speak for JLB, but what I teach here is all about preparing the way of the Lord for His return so others will not be taken as a theif in the night, but to be like the five virgins who had oil in their lamps waiting for His return as they were prepared.

So now you are a voice crying in the wilderness preparing the way of the Lord? Just who is it you are preparing? You keep speaking of God's wrath and Judgement, so you must be trying to prepare others for the lake of fire and His coming in Judgement where every eye shall see him. I certainly hope you are prepared. But the voice crying in the wilderness prepare ye the way of the Lord is the friend of the bridegroom preparing the bride to greet the bridegroom. But his coming for his bride is not done in the judgement of sin and wrath, but rather his coming for his bride is without sin unto salvation.

So to which coming is it you watch for? The light or the darkness? You say that I just don't get it, but the words that you represent look to his coming in darkness for the children of darkness.

 

[JLB]

But when the second advent of the Lord comes, He gives these signs (Matt. 24:1-33) and it will be somewhere around 7 years from the rapture

The resurrection and rapture occur at the coming of the Lord.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Paul plainly and clearly says those who are alive and remain [raptured ones] will by no means precede those who sleep [resurrected ones], at the coming of the Lord.


The coming of the Lord is when the resurrection, first, and then the rapture occur.


This is the Day of the Lord.

This is the second advent as you call it.


Everywhere in the New Testament, this plain and clear truth is stated.

The coming of the Lord is when Jesus will appear and gather His people at the resurrection and rapture.


22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24


At His coming, the resurrection and rapture occur, and the destruction of the wicked, which certaily includes the antichrist.

• afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

You can keep quoting the scripture all that you want, that doesn't mean you understand it. You can claim to be a child of the light, but that does not make it so. Our fruits are before us and we speak what we know. The children of darkness speak of the wrath and judgement of God, for that is their earnest expectation. But the children of light know no wrath, but are the children of salvation and children of the kingdom.

Do you even know what the "shadow of darkness" is?

I have had enough of your rude remarks and attitude. Just because we do not agree we can be civil with each other in our discussion. I have been nothing, but gracious to you and now I will bid you good day and may God bless you as I am done discussing with you in this thread.

 

[ezrider]

Jesus thought it was necessary to give us several signs, that we are to watch for.


I asked you, in response to your accusation, in which you said it was fleshly to watch for the signs Jesus gave.


You claimed we should be listening to the voice of the friend of the bridegroom.





So again I ask, since you keep claiming that the signs Jesus gave are somehow fleshly, please share with us, what signs do we need to be watching for, if not the signs Jesus gave us.



JLB

Matthew 12:39-40
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.



Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


If one teaches darkness for light, or watches for the coming of darkness rather than the coming of light, then I would caution them in their presumption of being called a child of the light and a child of the kingdom.

 

[JLB]

If one teaches darkness for light, or watches for the coming of darkness rather than the coming of light, then I would caution them in their presumption of being called a child of the light and a child of the kingdom.

Can you point out anyone who teaches darkness for light, on this thread.


Who on this thread has said to watch for darkness, rather than the coming of light?


Maybe you believe the Apostles were evil, since they asked for the sign of His coming.

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” Matthew 24:3

The first thing He warned them was -

“Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.


So I will stick to listening to Jesus and take heed to the signs He gave for us to watch for.



You on the other hand have told us ignore these signs, because they are fleshly, and rather to listen for the voice of the friend of the bridegroom.



I will choose to listen to Jesus.




JLB

 

[ezrider]

Did your friends of Christ teach you this as the Spirit of Christ does not come into our flesh, but dwells in our spirit as flesh is enmity against the Spirit, John 14:15-17; Romans 8:1-9.

BTW, unless I missed it just who are these friends of Christ you speak of?

Why can't you just simply state who these friends of Christ are as I am not going to play a guessing game with you.

You just don't get it. The warning of God's great wrath is not to scare people,

Why do you insist on knowing who these friends are? Do you wish to warn and frighten them too? You really should slow down and consider ezra's comment below and let is sink in just what it really means the BE THE CHURCH.

church is the Body of Christ for the life of me i fail to see how any else but would inherit

Again, above in your post you said the Spirit of Christ does not come into our flesh. So just how then are WE THE BODY OF CHRIST if he is not flesh of my flesh? The ten virgins have been called forth to meet the bridegroom and to their wedding, but the unwise virgins did not have faith and did not know their Lord. But the marriage of the bride is still mystery for many, for the two shall become one flesh.


We can not keep on claiming that the Spirit of Christ dwells within us; and then say that he has not come. We can not keep on claiming that we are the Church and the BODY OF CHRIST, and then say that we await his coming. It's time to put faith into action. Your fruits will bear out if you are to be the sweet savour of Christ from life unto life, or the savour of death unto death.

2 Corinthians 2:14-17
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

 

[ezrider]

Did your friends of Christ teach you this as the Spirit of Christ does not come into our flesh, but dwells in our spirit as flesh is enmity against the Spirit, John 14:15-17; Romans 8:1-9.

Is it not the Holy Spirit that teaches and confirms the prophetic word to us as stated in John 14:26 and 2 Peter 1:19-21, so why do you believe your friends over that which the Holy Spirit teaches us.

So you are saying we are confused, but yet you do not believe that which is already written in Romans 8:1-9 and John 14:15-17 that I gave you to read.

It is the spirit of antichrist that denies that the Spirit of Christ has come into our flesh, for greater is HE that in US than He that is in the World. It is the spirit of antichrist that claims to be the body of Christ, but then still looks for the coming of Christ.




Ephesians 3:14-19
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.


The bride does not come to her wedding that she may be filled to know the love of Christ to then go forth and proclaim God's wrath. The bride should seek to come to know that love which passes all knowledge and come forth to her wedding, but she would be wise and remain humble and not think of herself a Queen.

What is is we should be watching for? The sign of Jonah, the raising of the body of the Church.


Ephesians 5:29-32
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


Ezekiel 37:3-6
And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest. Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Ezekiel 37:12-14
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.


Do we follow on to know the Lord? Or do we look for the signs of wrath?

Hosea 6:1-3
Come, and let us return unto the Lord:
for he hath torn, and he will heal us;
he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us:
in the third day he will raise us up,
and we shall live in his sight.
Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning;
and he shall come unto us as the rain,
as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

 

[ezrider]

Can you point out anyone who teaches darkness for light, on this thread.

Who on this thread has said to watch for darkness, rather than the coming of light?

Only if you can tell me what that darkness is that they teach.

You on the other hand have told us ignore these signs, because they are fleshly, and rather to listen for the voice of the friend of the bridegroom.

2 Corinthians 4:15-16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


Wars and rumors of wars? You won't know it has come to pass until the first shot has been fired. Earthquakes in divers places? Who can see and speak of this until the ground has shook and the building crumbled?

Can one see the wind? Or do they make themselves for it to blow upon them? Can on see the falling of the morning dew? Or does the tender herb make itself ready and still so that it may receive of the morning dew?

 

[for_his_glory]

Parenthesizes are added by me.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days (after all Jesus taught as signs to watch for in Matthew 1-26) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: (after all Jesus taught as signs to watch for in Matthew 1-26) and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (after all Jesus taught as signs to watch for in Matthew 1-26)

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all (saints and sinners) that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; (only a mystery to those who have not the truth) We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, (we who are still alive at His coming) even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, (not of our self) that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (many will still believe on the last day when Christ returns) shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: (no quiet secret Rapture here) and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (son of perdition explained in Rev 13,17) 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? (Told us in Matthew 24:1-26) 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Rev 19:19 And I (John in his vision) saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him (Christ) that sat on the horse, and against his army (warring angels). 20 (At the brightness of His coming) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

(Here it is)
* last day - end of the last trump sounding
* last day - catching up of the saints to meet Christ in the air
* last day - beast and false prophet destroyed by the brightness of His coming

Not my words, but that which is already spoken by Christ and written for us by His anointed Apostles.

 

[JLB]

Only if you can tell me what that darkness is that they teach.

That’s what I thought.

More talking in circles.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

Jesus thought it was necessary to give us several signs, that we are to watch for.

Jesus also thought it necessary that he speak to you in parables, so that in hearing you would not hear, and in seeing you would not see; and as a flaming sword keepeth the way to the tree of life.

 

[JLB]

2 Corinthians 4:15-16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal

Of course the things which are seen are temporary, just as it is with this life.


However, that doesn’t mean we are to neglect the signs He gave us to watch for.


If your content listening to the voice of the friend of the bridegroom, then so be it.


I will listen to Jesus, and watch for and take heed to the signs He gave us.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

That’s what I thought.

More talking in circles.


JLB

As a Christian, will you please forgive me? I guess I assumed that you like to be treated in the manner that you treat others. So then I simply ask, do you know the darkness that I speak?

 

[JLB]

Jesus also thought it necessary that he speak to you in parables, so that in hearing you would not hear, and in seeing you would not see; and as a flaming sword keepeth the way to the tree of life.

Absolutely completely false !

If you actually read what He said you would find that it was to “them”, that He spoke in parables.

Why do You speak to them in parables?”

Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.


10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Matthew 13:10-13


Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven



JLB

 

[JLB]

As a Christian, will you please forgive me? I guess I assumed that you like to be treated in the manner that you treat others. So then I simply ask, do you know the darkness that I speak?

God Himself only knows what you could be referring to.

I will say this to you -


Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness. Luke 11:35



JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night for unbelievers, not for believers.

Good point. The Ten virgins.