Reconsidering Daniel 12:6-7

[Rondmon]

If you read the article you would notice that the Saint's are not persecuted during the 'time, times, and an half' that Daniel 12:7 is talking about. Daniel 12:7 is not a reference to the Great Tribulation (like Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 12:14). It is a reference to the 'little season' which takes place immediately after the Millennial Kingdom. Thus, the two witnesses and the mark of the beast are not at all relevant to this post.

If you disagree, that's fine. Please share your evidence.

I have already proved it with my other post. The Time, times and half[time] correlates with the Women (Israel) fleeing Judea for a Time, times and half AND the same women flees for 1260 days, so that is God trying to reveal that the time, times and half correlates with the Dan. 12:7 Daniel prophecy by pre incarnate Jesus (Man in Linen) , where he said from the time the holy peoples (Israel) power is scattered (they are conquered and many Flee Judea) there will be 1260 days until ALL THESE WONDERS (Dan. 11:36-45).

I have been called unto prophecy 40 plus years.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

The time,times and a half is the 3.5 years from.the time the daily sacrifice is abolished in Daniel 11:31 to the time the abomination of desolation is placed on Jerusalem in Daniel 12:1.
The great tribulation mentioned in Daniel 12;1 is caused by the abomination of desolation which is used to destroy and innihilate many.



Daniel 12:6-7
One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”
The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”



The persecution of the saints in Daniel 11:33-35 takes place before the great tribulation on Daniel 12:1. The e great tribulation is the time of Gods wrath when the two witnesses ascend into heaven in a cloud.

It seems that you keep restating events from scripture that are not part of the issue. The issue at hand is the meaning of 'time, times, and an half' specifically from Daniel 12:7. Please read the article, if there's something incorrect with any of the points that were made, please provide the evidence against that point. If you have no evidence against any of those points, then what is your belief in this matter based on?

Hebrews 11:1, ''Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.'

Per the scripture, substance and evidence are the essential elements of faith.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

I have already proved it with my other post. The Time, times and half[time] correlates with the Women (Israel) fleeing Judea for a Time, times and half AND the same women flees for 1260 days, so that is God trying to reveal that the time, times and half correlates with the Dan. 12:7 Daniel prophecy by pre incarnate Jesus (Man in Linen) , where he said from the time the holy peoples (Israel) power is scattered (they are conquered and many Flee Judea) there will be 1260 days until ALL THESE WONDERS (Dan. 11:36-45).

I have been called unto prophecy 40 plus years.

Please read the article and let me know if you have evidence against any of the points made.

Concerning prophecy, what have you been called to do these 40 years? The Holy Spirit is the author of all scripture, and His wisdom has been made available to all believers.

James 1:5-6, 'If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering...'

 

[reddogs]

If it's 1,260 years, who is speaking against the Most High? When does the 1,260-year period begin and when does it end?

Here is a good outline...'
Going back to the late 5th century, the rise of the bishop of Rome to supremacy in Western Europe hinged upon the elimination of the Arian kingdoms which controlled Rome. In A.D. 476 the last of the western Roman emperors had been deposed. But the rule of Italy had at that time passed into the hands of an Arian king, Odoacer, to whom the activities of the Catholic bishop were subjected. In 493 Odoacer was overthrown. But his conqueror, Theodoric the Ostrogoth, was also an Arian. Catholic supremacy could never be realized while the Ostrogothic kingdom dominated Rome.

There was also one other major Arian kingdom to be dealt with. The Vandals had established themselves in Carthage and now controlled the Mediterranean. Their presence prevented Catholic supremacy.

In the year 533, the eastern emperor, Justinian, for the purpose of settling the religious question, issued a document recognizing the Catholic bishop in Rome as "head of all the Holy Churches." In the following year, he sent an army under the command of Belisarius, which quickly destroyed the Vandal kingdom. Belisarius then turned toward Rome and began the process of driving out the Ostrogoths.

Driven from their place, the Ostrogoths, under Witiges, set a seige upon the city in 537, which they maintained an entire year. When a second armed force arrived against them in 538, they could hold out no longer, and in March of that year they retreated. Although two years later they attempted to regain control of Rome, they were unsuccessful. With their withdrawal from the city in 538, their power in Rome had ended. (For documentation on these events see Thomas Hodgkin, Italy and Her Invaders, vol. 4, pp. 73-113, 210-252; and Charles Diehl, "Justinian," in Cambridge Medieval History, vol. 2, p. 15.)

The year 538, therefore, marks the first time since the end of the western imperial line that Rome was freed of Arian kings and the Catholic bishop held undisputed authority in the West. That year, therefore, represents the beginning of the 1260 years of papal supremacy.

"With the conquest of Rome by Belisarius, the history of the ancient city may be considered as terminating; and with his defence against Witiges commences the history of the middle ages." --George Finlay, Greece Under the Romans (Edinburgh and London: William Blackwood and Sons, 1844), p. 295.

If the 1260 years began in 538, they must end in 1798. What happened in that year?

In February of 1798 the French general Berthier entered Rome, proclaimed a republic, and took the pope prisoner. The pope died in France shortly thereafter. Although a new pope was later elected, the papacy had lost its power. Its glory days were over; its supremacy had come to an end.

"Berthier advanced to the city by forced marches; summoned the castle of St. Angelo, allowing only four hours for its evacuation by the papal troops; the convicts were set at liberty; the gates of the city secured by the French; the pope, all the cardinals except three, and the whole people of Rome, made prisoners at discretion. . . . Shortly afterwards, Berthier made his triumphal entry into Rome; and a tree of liberty being planted on the capitol, . . . a proclamation was issued, declaring . . . a free and independent republic, under the special protection of the French army. A provisional government was acknowledged, as established by the sovereign people; and every other temporal authority emanating from the pope was suppressed, nor was he any longer to excercise any function." --John Adolphus, The History of France, Vol. 2 (London: George Kearsley, 1803), pp. 364, 365.'

 

[Rondmon]

Please read the article and let me know if you have evidence against any of the points made.

Concerning prophecy, what have you been called to do these 40 years? The Holy Spirit is the author of all scripture, and His wisdom has been made available to all believers.

James 1:5-6, 'If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering...'

I have been a preacher with a specific bent to Prophecy. In 1988 in a vision, as I was running from EVIL DUDES with 2 small Kids, I hid behind a bush by a house, then from above, a BOOMING VOICE said "The Man of Sin is Here" so God told me the Anti-Christ was on earth over 35 years ago. Then he showed me Jimmy Swaggart in a huge auditorium, and only 10 people were in there, within two weeks he had fallen with a Prostitute and basically God was showing me he was going to lose his ministry or become much less/recede. I was shown the later to make me understand the former was fast and true, even though it would be many, many years later (NOW) because events started unfolding.

I have done an Exegesis of Daniel 11 & 12 in full, where I name every king and player, from Alexander the Great, to Cleopatra, to Antiochus(AE4) and the Little Horn/A./C. In Dan. 11:21 there is a mention of the prince of the covenant (Onias III). I explain each verse and who the players are, and that is how I came to undersrtnd Jason (real name Yeshua)

22 And with the arms of a flood(Army) shall they be overflown from before him(AE4 conquers), and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant(The High Priest of Israel is overthrown).

So, me doing this Exegesis led to me understanding that the 1335 was the "Two-witnesses" who show up 1335 days before the 2nd coming. That the 1290 was the False Prophet showing up 1290 days before the 2nd coming and that the 1260 COME LAST, 1260 days before the 2nd coming ENDS ALL OF THESE WONDERS, the Beast/A.C. Conquers Israel.

BUT....I got something more important, by reading 2 Maccabeans and looking up Onias III in history, I saw he gad a brother named Jason (Greek name he took) who was pro Hellenization in other words he believed in the Greek ways of life. He bribed Antiochus in order to be named the High Priest, having his real life brother Onias III killed. He then welcomed AE4 into the temple of God to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus. He also MANDATED that all Jews become Hellenized (serve the Greek gods, take on Greek culture, accept their love of Homosexuality) and this led to the Maccabean Revolt.

It hit me, OF COURSE, if AE4 was an Archetype Anti-Christ/Beast then he had to have along side him the Archetype False Prophet, eureka. Now I knew the end time False Prophet would be a Jewish High priest, knowing this helped me unlock everything END TIMES. The end time A.C. will be over the E.U. (Dan. 7:7-8) and born in Greece (Dan. 8-9 mandates this) and as Daniel 9:27 states he will make an Agreement (Covenant means Agreement in Hebrew) with Israel in some form. Well, what is this agreement? Look up European Neighborhood Policy its a REAL THING. The E.U. currently has 7 year agreements with Israel and every nation on the Mediterranean Sea. Here is what goes down after Gog & Magog (Russia, Iran and Turkey are defeated by God but everyone thinks its Israel or Go uses the E.U. to do it). Israel simply joins the E.U. that is the Covenant, that kindles God's anger and brings forth the 70th week events AND the pre 70th week Rapture.

From afar, at the 1290, the A.C. (E.U. President) gets the High Priest to take away "THE SACRIFICE" (not a profane meat sacrifice) or to Forbid Jesus Worship. You see 1/3 of Israel repents at the 1335 before the DOTL comes, see Malachi 4:5 it says Elijah is sent back before the DOTL comes. So, I a not guessing my friend. You are guessing. Thats a no no in prophecy.

 

[YeshuaGlory]

You guys have fallen into the protestanism trap of mixing Daniel with Revelation/NT/OT prohets all in one big lump.
Not sure who started all this confusion, its been around a while as a church i use to go to taught the same snakeoil in baton Rouge La
Mixing daniel w REvelatiuon
STOP
The only image, maybe a few others , that is sure speaking of our epoch is the Stone = Yeshua falling on the great beast = 10 toes is now the world rulers. = is NOW being destroyed Yeshua is NOWWWW not future NOW falling on the great antichrist beast.
Daniel belongs to his epoch, Not ours, although Daniel is archetypal.
= Great great sufferings in his day will be like unto the days we are living and going to get alot worse.
Its archetypal for our epoch.
Stay in Revelation, Stay out of Daniel when speaking of Revelation in our epoch NOW, Daniel is past, Rev is NOW and future
any Q's??
and stop reading Rev like its a Hollywood movie,, this happens, now this,, as if it all takes place ina few months yrs or whatever.
man Protestantism has really done some damage,, Now I have to try to help fix their big fat mess.
Guess we can thank Satan's best friend John Dary, the great great antichrist
Puke up all prot idiology/eschatology
< Forget everything they've been feeding you.

 

[YeshuaGlory]

time rimes haff time, 7 yrs,
3/5 yrs
The great trib
future
pre trib rapture, post trib rapture
2nd Comming
Guess we can thank Darby the great antichrist for all these delusions./confusions
The 7 yrs is longgg past, Thats Antiochus Epiphanes Daniel. NOT in Revelation/future
That 7 yrs is longgg past.
Yet there is mention of a 3.5 yr peiod in Rev that is a great trib
Which means Daniel reflects the 3.5 in Rev. Dabiel's 3.5 is what we call archetypal.
amazing how God works in time
3.5 Dan and 3.5 Rev
God's most fav number is 7,.
7's everywhere, countless X's 7 is mention.
So I would imagine the 1st 3.6 is when the gentiles have invaded Jerusalem and is destroying the city, w USA/NATO troops making vain attempts to protect the few remaining residents from death.
So yes 3.5 Jerusalem being annihilated 3.5 a few jews escape to the desert caves, Kept alive only by miracles from God.
But this event is not mentioned in daniel, Daniel 's visions is about his epoch. Israel's future in that epoch,
I have 2 scholarly articles that allowed me to see though all the confusion.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

I have been a preacher with a specific bent to Prophecy. In 1988 in a vision, as I was running from EVIL DUDES with 2 small Kids, I hid behind a bush by a house, then from above, a BOOMING VOICE said "The Man of Sin is Here" so God told me the Anti-Christ was on earth over 35 years ago. Then he showed me Jimmy Swaggart in a huge auditorium, and only 10 people were in there, within two weeks he had fallen with a Prostitute and basically God was showing me he was going to lose his ministry or become much less/recede. I was shown the later to make me understand the former was fast and true, even though it would be many, many years later (NOW) because events started unfolding.

I have done an Exegesis of Daniel 11 & 12 in full, where I name every king and player, from Alexander the Great, to Cleopatra, to Antiochus(AE4) and the Little Horn/A./C. In Dan. 11:21 there is a mention of the prince of the covenant (Onias III). I explain each verse and who the players are, and that is how I came to undersrtnd Jason (real name Yeshua)

22 And with the arms of a flood(Army) shall they be overflown from before him(AE4 conquers), and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant(The High Priest of Israel is overthrown).

So, me doing this Exegesis led to me understanding that the 1335 was the "Two-witnesses" who show up 1335 days before the 2nd coming. That the 1290 was the False Prophet showing up 1290 days before the 2nd coming and that the 1260 COME LAST, 1260 days before the 2nd coming ENDS ALL OF THESE WONDERS, the Beast/A.C. Conquers Israel.

BUT....I got something more important, by reading 2 Maccabeans and looking up Onias III in history, I saw he gad a brother named Jason (Greek name he took) who was pro Hellenization in other words he believed in the Greek ways of life. He bribed Antiochus in order to be named the High Priest, having his real life brother Onias III killed. He then welcomed AE4 into the temple of God to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus. He also MANDATED that all Jews become Hellenized (serve the Greek gods, take on Greek culture, accept their love of Homosexuality) and this led to the Maccabean Revolt.

It hit me, OF COURSE, if AE4 was an Archetype Anti-Christ/Beast then he had to have along side him the Archetype False Prophet, eureka. Now I knew the end time False Prophet would be a Jewish High priest, knowing this helped me unlock everything END TIMES. The end time A.C. will be over the E.U. (Dan. 7:7-8) and born in Greece (Dan. 8-9 mandates this) and as Daniel 9:27 states he will make an Agreement (Covenant means Agreement in Hebrew) with Israel in some form. Well, what is this agreement? Look up European Neighborhood Policy its a REAL THING. The E.U. currently has 7 year agreements with Israel and every nation on the Mediterranean Sea. Here is what goes down after Gog & Magog (Russia, Iran and Turkey are defeated by God but everyone thinks its Israel or Go uses the E.U. to do it). Israel simply joins the E.U. that is the Covenant, that kindles God's anger and brings forth the 70th week events AND the pre 70th week Rapture.

From afar, at the 1290, the A.C. (E.U. President) gets the High Priest to take away "THE SACRIFICE" (not a profane meat sacrifice) or to Forbid Jesus Worship. You see 1/3 of Israel repents at the 1335 before the DOTL comes, see Malachi 4:5 it says Elijah is sent back before the DOTL comes. So, I a not guessing my friend. You are guessing. Thats a no no in prophecy.

So, the only thing that I'm guessing is that you still haven't read the article...

If you ever do, please provide scriptural evidence for whatever you think is incorrect.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

time rimes haff time, 7 yrs,
3/5 yrs
The great trib
future
pre trib rapture, post trib rapture
2nd Comming
Guess we can thank Darby the great antichrist for all these delusions./confusions
The 7 yrs is longgg past, Thats Antiochus Epiphanes Daniel. NOT in Revelation/future
That 7 yrs is longgg past.
Yet there is mention of a 3.5 yr peiod in Rev that is a great trib
Which means Daniel reflects the 3.5 in Rev. Dabiel's 3.5 is what we call archetypal.
amazing how God works in time
3.5 Dan and 3.5 Rev
God's most fav number is 7,.
7's everywhere, countless X's 7 is mention.
So I would imagine the 1st 3.6 is when the gentiles have invaded Jerusalem and is destroying the city, w USA/NATO troops making vain attempts to protect the few remaining residents from death.
So yes 3.5 Jerusalem being annihilated 3.5 a few jews escape to the desert caves, Kept alive only by miracles from God.
But this event is not mentioned in daniel, Daniel 's visions is about his epoch. Israel's future in that epoch,
I have 2 scholarly articles that allowed me to see though all the confusion.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes

YG, not sure who you were referring to. The Holy Spirit is the author of all scripture and is available to give knowledge, understanding and wisdom to all believers that will read His word (the Bible) for themselves.

 

[Rondmon]

So, the only thing that I'm guessing is that you still haven't read the article...

If you ever do, please provide scriptural evidence for whatever you think is incorrect.

I read you post, I do not follow LINKS to anywhere on any site, period. What you posted I have rebutted and proved to be incorrect. Dan. 12:1-2 is AFTER Jesus kills the Beast in Dan. 11:45, so its not a part of the 70th week, this destroys your whole thesis my friend, but you are too entrenched and dug in bad eschatology to see it. Dan. 12:1-2 is part of the Kingdom Age, better know as the 1000 year reign.

 

[YeshuaGlory]

I read you post, I do not follow LINKS to anywhere on any site, period. What you posted I have rebutted and proved to be incorrect. Dan. 12:1-2 is AFTER Jesus kills the Beast in Dan. 11:45, so its not a part of the 70th week, this destroys your whole thesis my friend, but you are too entrenched and dug in bad eschatology to see it. Dan. 12:1-2 is part of the Kingdom Age, better know as the 1000 year reign.

Dan 12:1-2
Refers to the few remaining jews in and aroiund Jerusalem who are now on the very limits, facing death as the gentile hordes have been annihilating all Jerusalem, THese remnant of the remnant of the remnant.
are miraculously given passage way to the desert caves where God somehow keeps them alive.
This is right at the end of gentile rulke and imminent beginnings of Yeshua as ruler.
Lets see, as they are hiding in the desert, after 3.5 yrs, a massive EQ strikes the entire planet, Dount its a one day event. all allll cities of the world come crashing down to rubble,
Now at this moment, this is the very veryyyyy beginning of total complete 1000000000000% end of Gentile rule, and the Yeshua as King of all the earth
,,fast forward 1000 yrs, now satan is let loose for a **little season** and another war of God vs the gentile armies.
Now starts the zillion yr reign of Yeshua,
Evil will never ever never be found anywhere oin earth
The one quality in the few remaining people on earth. Maybe 1 to 2 million at that time... will be
Agape. everyone will be walkinmg vessels of pure pure pure agape,
Zero ego, zero sin,
Its like these 1-2 m will be little Yeshua's. Born of God, not man.
God will be their father, as Yeshua was Son of God, not son of Joseph
Not many jews will live past the great trib. at least the few who remain in Israel. Most will have left Israel before the gentile hordes invade.

 

[Rondmon]

Dan 12:1-2

As soon as Jesus kills the Beast the 1000 year reign starts. The vision starts in Dan. 10 and runs all the way through Dan. 12. However common sense tells us the Beast was stopped and killed in Dan. 11:45.

Like Genesis 1 and 2 are both about Creation, common sense tells us Dan. 12:1 is not a real time event, we see Michael stands up to protect Israel from a Time of Troubles, well those troubles ended when the Anti-Christ was killed in Dan. 11:45, you do not understand how prophecy works. In Rev. the 70th week troubles start with Rev. 8, continue with Rev. 9 and finish in Rev. 16 however we can see the exact same 42 months covered in Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19. Rev. 14 and 19 covers the full 70th week or 7 years, Rev. 11 covers 1335 days, every other chapter I mentioned covers 42 months.

The 42 months/1260 days is the key, NOTICE, the Dragon chases the woman (Israel) for 1260 days or 42 months in Rev. 12. Then in Rev. 13 the A.C./Beast rules for 1260 days. In Rev. 10 the Seven Thunders are the 7 Trumps and all of God's Wrath come out of the 7 Trumps, so that lasts for 42 months also. Rev. 14 has a flashback to the Pre 70th week rapture in vs. 14 so it covers 7 years. Rev. 17 is the Harlot (ALL FALSE RELIGION) being killed off because the Last Beast (AC) has no room for any other Religion save Beast worship. Rev. 18 is Babylon (Whole World) being judged by God with 42 months of Judgments.

Those are complex, Dan. 12:1-2 is simple.

 

[YeshuaGlory]

As soon as Jesus kills the Beast the 1000 year reign starts. The vision starts in Dan. 10 and runs all the way through Dan. 12. However common sense tells us the Beast was stopped and killed in Dan. 11:45.

Like Genesis 1 and 2 are both about Creation, common sense tells us Dan. 12:1 is not a real time event, we see Michael stands up to protect Israel from a Time of Troubles, well those troubles ended when the Anti-Christ was killed in Dan. 11:45, you do not understand how prophecy works. In Rev. the 70th week troubles start with Rev. 8, continue with Rev. 9 and finish in Rev. 16 however we can see the exact same 42 months covered in Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19. Rev. 14 and 19 covers the full 70th week or 7 years, Rev. 11 covers 1335 days, every other chapter I mentioned covers 42 months.

The 42 months/1260 days is the key, NOTICE, the Dragon chases the woman (Israel) for 1260 days or 42 months in Rev. 12. Then in Rev. 13 the A.C./Beast rules for 1260 days. In Rev. 10 the Seven Thunders are the 7 Trumps and all of God's Wrath come out of the 7 Trumps, so that lasts for 42 months also. Rev. 14 has a flashback to the Pre 70th week rapture in vs. 14 so it covers 7 years. Rev. 17 is the Harlot (ALL FALSE RELIGION) being killed off because the Last Beast (AC) has no room for any other Religion save Beast worship. Rev. 18 is Babylon (Whole World) being judged by God with 42 months of Judgments.

Those are complex, Dan. 12:1-2 is simple.

@ Rond
No , Daniel 11:45 is speaking about The monster Antichous Epiphanes
again read my post about,
Daniel does have a few verses on this epoch, but the vast majority of Daniel is about his epoch,,, however those images can and do reflect in a archetypal nature all of Israel/the jews crisis past 2500 yrs,
Do not confuse Daniel with last epoch events, Only spare passges refer SPECIFIALLY to the last epoch.
There is no such thing as THE pre trib rapture as a single event. Many will perish = raptured over the cpuse oif these very final epochs of gentile rule. The rapture is happening now, and will continue.
No such thing as pre/post/mid trib rapture although many will face death during the final epoch = raptured, = death in any number of ways,
We need to throw out all John Darbyism, Its antichrist. That man caused more trouble than did Calvin and Luther COMBINED.

 

[YeshuaGlory]

oh forgot

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel 11:45&version=KJV

= NOT end times, This is refering SPECIFICALLY to Antichous Epiphanes ,,and no other.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

I read you post, I do not follow LINKS to anywhere on any site, period. What you posted I have rebutted and proved to be incorrect. Dan. 12:1-2 is AFTER Jesus kills the Beast in Dan. 11:45, so its not a part of the 70th week, this destroys your whole thesis my friend, but you are too entrenched and dug in bad eschatology to see it. Dan. 12:1-2 is part of the Kingdom Age, better know as the 1000 year reign.

If you haven't read the article, then what is your 'rebuttal' based on? The post is just a short summary of the subject matter covered in the article.

If you would like to read the article, email me at davidgbarnette@gmail.com. I'll gladly send the article back to you that way, in hopes that we can have an educated discussion.

 

[Rondmon]

@ Rond
No , Daniel 11:45 is speaking about The monster Antichous Epiphanes
again read my post about,

I understand you post sir, I have seen this for years, it does not originate with you. I ca prove 100 percent that Antiochus (AE4) is not nor can be the person mentioned in vs. 45. I have only had to do this numerous times. I do not get agitated because people do not understand, but people have to listen and accept when they are in error. Heck I wrote a blog 8-9 years ago saying Rome was THAT CITY in Rev. 17:18 and the holy spirit was like, "Ron, you are wrong, read it again, the vision was only 4 verses" That city is Babylon, God was using it as one of 3 descriptors to tell who who the Harlot is (False Religion). So, I had to rewrite my blog. Its OK being wrong !! That means we learned s truth. You can read what you want them skip to the bottom where I show why verses 36-45 can not be Antiochus.

I will start with verse 20, one verse before Antiochus comes to power.

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Antiochus III's son Seleucus IV became king and had to raise taxes because Rome was forcing him to have to pay for all his fathers wars, he was soon poisoned to death it seems.

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Antiochus IV then became king, he is called a vile person. He became king via a series of maneuvers which included flattering the king of Pergamum to gain his allegiance and by the death of the young heir to the throne.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

The High Priest, Onias III (prince of the covenant) was replaced via a conspiracy involving the high priests brother Jason and Antiochus Epiphanes but his brother was also double crossed when another priest bribed Antiochus Epiphanes with even more money, and who was even more pro Hellenization, Jason's real name was Yeshua, he favored the Hellenization of Jerusalem/Israel, where as his brother Onias III was a pious man of God who was put to death.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Antiochus Epiphanes so wanted to conquer Egypt. He took a "small army" down to Egypt feigning to be the protector of Ptolemy VI who was his nephew. He was of course trying to deceive them whereas he could eventually conquer them via craftiness.

SKIP to verse 28 (I have every verse)

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Antiichus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Verse 29 says it will NOT BE AS THE FORMER (when he conquered Egypt) NOR AS THE LATER, when the A.C. will con conquer Egypt. QUESTION !! How can verses 40-43 be Antiochus when the Roman Senate forbade him from conquering Egypt again? It is not him, it can not be him. That is what Daniel meant by when he came back to Egypt it would nit be as THE FORMER, when he ruled them, nor as THE LATER when the Anti-Christ conquers Egypt. Notice also, in verses 40-43 Moab, Edom and Ammon can not be conquered, that just so happens to be in the Central and Southern Joran Mountains, (Petra/Bozrah area) where the Jews flee unto.

Why do you think we get VERY Greek king? Its pointing to the A.C. he has to be born in Greece,. Dan. 8:9 MANDATES this, he conquers TOWARDS the East (Seleucus/Turkey) TOWARDS the South (Ptolemy/Egypt) and TOWARDS Israel. Its a simple Four General war and only a leader from Cassander/Greece can Conquer from the Northwest Corridor. And Greece just so happens to be in the E.U. which fulfills Dan. 7:7-8.

If you haven't read the article, then what is your 'rebuttal' based on? The post is just a short summary of the subject matter covered in the article.

Post it here, but I already understand things, I have seen them before. I can see where people are going before they get there.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

I understand you post sir, I have seen this for years, it does not originate with you. I ca prove 100 percent that Antiochus (AE4) is not nor can be the person mentioned in vs. 45. I have only had to do this numerous times. I do not get agitated because people do not understand, but people have to listen and accept when they are in error. Heck I wrote a blog 8-9 years ago saying Rome was THAT CITY in Rev. 17:18 and the holy spirit was like, "Ron, you are wrong, read it again, the vision was only 4 verses" That city is Babylon, God was using it as one of 3 descriptors to tell who who the Harlot is (False Religion). So, I had to rewrite my blog. Its OK being wrong !! That means we learned s truth. You can read what you want them skip to the bottom where I show why verses 36-45 can not be Antiochus.

I will start with verse 20, one verse before Antiochus comes to power.

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Antiochus III's son Seleucus IV became king and had to raise taxes because Rome was forcing him to have to pay for all his fathers wars, he was soon poisoned to death it seems.

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Antiochus IV then became king, he is called a vile person. He became king via a series of maneuvers which included flattering the king of Pergamum to gain his allegiance and by the death of the young heir to the throne.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

The High Priest, Onias III (prince of the covenant) was replaced via a conspiracy involving the high priests brother Jason and Antiochus Epiphanes but his brother was also double crossed when another priest bribed Antiochus Epiphanes with even more money, and who was even more pro Hellenization, Jason's real name was Yeshua, he favored the Hellenization of Jerusalem/Israel, where as his brother Onias III was a pious man of God who was put to death.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Antiochus Epiphanes so wanted to conquer Egypt. He took a "small army" down to Egypt feigning to be the protector of Ptolemy VI who was his nephew. He was of course trying to deceive them whereas he could eventually conquer them via craftiness.

SKIP to verse 28 (I have every verse)

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Antiichus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Verse 29 says it will NOT BE AS THE FORMER (when he conquered Egypt) NOR AS THE LATER, when the A.C. will con conquer Egypt. QUESTION !! How can verses 40-43 be Antiochus when the Roman Senate forbade him from conquering Egypt again? It is not him, it can not be him. That is what Daniel meant by when he came back to Egypt it would nit be as THE FORMER, when he ruled them, nor as THE LATER when the Anti-Christ conquers Egypt. Notice also, in verses 40-43 Moab, Edom and Ammon can not be conquered, that just so happens to be in the Central and Southern Joran Mountains, (Petra/Bozrah area) where the Jews flee unto.

Why do you think we get VERY Greek king? Its pointing to the A.C. he has to be born in Greece,. Dan. 8:9 MANDATES this, he conquers TOWARDS the East (Seleucus/Turkey) TOWARDS the South (Ptolemy/Egypt) and TOWARDS Israel. Its a simple Four General war and only a leader from Cassander/Greece can Conquer from the Northwest Corridor. And Greece just so happens to be in the E.U. which fulfills Dan. 7:7-8.


Post it here, but I already understand things, I have seen them before. I can see where people are going before they get there.

The article is

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

The article can be found here: Reconsidering Daniel 12:6-7

Simply put, the 'time, times, and an half' of Daniel 12:7 should not be interpreted to mean a three-and-a-half-year time period as it would in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 12:14. Instead, it is a reference to the three contiguous time-based prophecies that were about to begin (Daniel 9, Hosea 6:2, Revelation 20:2-7).

You have yet to explain why or how these long, undisputed history lessons about AE are relevant to this post.

 

[hawkman]

1.2: Always tag a member that you mention in any thread.; (@ plus name)

 

[Rondmon]

The article can be found here: Reconsidering Daniel 12:6-7

Simply put, the 'time, times, and an half' of Daniel 12:7 should not be interpreted to mean a three-and-a-half-year time period as it would in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 12:14. Instead, it is a reference to the three contiguous time-based prophecies that were about to begin (Daniel 9, Hosea 6:2, Revelation 20:2-7).

You have yet to explain why or how these long, undisputed history lessons about AE are relevant to this post.

Oh lets not learn about the Archetype False Prophet, Jason, which teaches us the end time False Prophet will be a Jewish high priest. How about not starting a thread if you can't post it on the site. Its clear you have no intention of listening to anyone. It is what it is.