What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Reformed Theology Makes God The Author of Sin!

LeviR said:
If I pay Caesar, I’d expect him to do my will. If not, why should I pay him?
Click to expand...
Because you'd be arrested by the IRS agents of the day?
LeviR said:
If I pay Caesar because his image is on the money, then I’m paying him as a debt to him.
You mean I work for Caesar out of debt to Caesar?
Does he think he’s God?
Click to expand...
Yes the monarch was revered as god on earth. The thing is, silver denarius was the designated currency for paying the poll tax, while there were other forms of currency circulating in the region. The coin with Caesar's image was deemed offensive as it violated the second commandment, so there were the moneychangers in the temple. But the Harodians didn't produce any other less offensive form of currency, when Jesus asked them to show him a coin, they immediately produced a denarius, so obviously they were already paying tax to Caesar and taking benefits from him, they only asked Jesus this to push him in a corner, and Jesus busted them by throwing the question back to them.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
More sensical than your original loaded question.
Click to expand...
Do you believe Eve was tempted by being drawn away and enticed by her own desire?

Jas 1:13 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Unchecked Copy Box
Jas 1:14 - But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
 
LeviR said:
Do you believe Eve was tempted by being drawn away and enticed by her own desire?
Click to expand...
I believe it was Adam’s fault of adding contents in God’s command. “Don’t touch it” makes it look like God was being very restrictive, He was deliberately withholding it from her, and it piqued her curiosity. Satan saw an opportunity and exploited the situation. I also believe that Adam and Eve were psychologically immature, they were still kids with no real life experience, they were not allowed to eat the tree of knowledge because they were not ready for it.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
I believe it was Adam’s fault of adding contents in God’s command. “Don’t touch it” makes it look like God was being very restrictive, He was deliberately withholding it from her, and it piqued her curiosity. Satan saw an opportunity and exploited the situation. I also believe that Adam and Eve were psychologically immature, they were still kids with no real life experience, they were not allowed to eat the tree of knowledge because they were not ready for it.
Click to expand...
I think God was being very restrictive. And Adam told Eve not to touch it because there would be a much greater chance of eating it if she had it in her hand.
I think what piqued her curiosity was that the fruit looked good to eat and was food.

I wondering if you think Eve desired the fruit and if that desire was a temptation for her?
 
SolaScriptura said:
is the devil the Tempter or not? did he cause both Eve and Adam to rebel against the Lord, and sin? the temptation to sin against the Lord for Adam and Eve, came from the devil, and not themselves. They chose to obey the devil, rather than the clear warning from God concerning the Tree of knowledge of good and evil.

are you saying that the devil does not tempt Christians? He is called the Accuser of the Brethren (Rev.12.10)
Click to expand...


Amen, the devil is called the tempter.


Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” Matthew 4:1-3


Tempter means to entice to sin.
 
LeviR said:
I wondering if you think Eve desired the fruit and if that desire was a temptation for her?
Click to expand...
Not at first, until Satan tempted her, planting the idea in her mind that she couldn't get rid of. My point is that the tree of knowledge itself is not evil, it's not like Pandora's box, it was off limit to them simply because they couldn't handle it yet, God didn't intend to keep it from them forever. In fact, it is reasonable to argue that they probably hadn't consummated their marriage as God commanded Adam to until Gen. 4:1. Nowhere in Gen. 3 mentioned that Adam "knew" Eve, but as soon as they were banished from Eden, they did it and Eve conceived. So what God told them to do they didn't do, what God told them NOT to do they did.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
Not at first, until Satan tempted her, planting the idea in her mind that she couldn't get rid of. My point is that the tree of knowledge itself is not evil, it's not like Pandora's box, it was off limit to them simply because they couldn't handle it yet, God didn't intend to keep it from them forever. In fact, it is reasonable to argue that they probably hadn't consummated their marriage as God commanded Adam to until Gen. 4:1. Nowhere in Gen. 3 mentioned that Adam "knew" Eve, but as soon as they were banished from Eden, they did it and Eve conceived. So what God told them to do they didn't do, what God told them NOT to do they did.
Click to expand...
Whatever was said to her, it was still her desire to take and eat. I mean, the serpent didn’t force it down her throat.
She willingly of her own desire took the fruit. And she gave it to Adam and he ate of his own desire also.

That is the point.
For Eve to blame the serpent was wrong. And God knew it, else He would not have punished Eve.
Nor could Adam have blamed the serpent or Eve. And God knew that too. So, Adam was condemned to die. And from that day forward he was a dead man.
And dead people don’t beget living people.
That’s why everyone is dead who is in Adam.
And the only ones made alive are those in Christ.
 
LeviR said:
Whatever was said to her, it was still her desire to take and eat. I mean, the serpent didn’t force it down her throat.
She willingly of her own desire took the fruit. And she gave it to Adam and he ate of his own desire also.

That is the point.
For Eve to blame the serpent was wrong. And God knew it, else He would not have punished Eve.
Nor could Adam have blamed the serpent or Eve. And God knew that too. So, Adam was condemned to die. And from that day forward he was a dead man.
And dead people don’t beget living people.
That’s why everyone is dead who is in Adam.
And the only ones made alive are those in Christ.
Click to expand...
That is a misogynistic view, blaming Eve for what was orignally Adam's fault, which echoes Adam's own accusation that God gave him the woman who caused him to eat the forbidden fruit. God held him accountable because he was put in charge of the garden, he received the command firsthand, God never told Eve not to "touch the tree", the only possibility is that he relayed it to her, and he added his own regulations; and when Eve fell to temptation, he should've known better, and yet he caved in and ate it too.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
That is a misogynistic view, blaming Eve for what was orignally Adam's fault, which echoes Adam's own accusation that God gave him the woman who caused him to eat the forbidden fruit. God held him accountable because he was put in charge of the garden, he received the command firsthand, God never told Eve not to "touch the tree", the only possibility is that he relayed it to her, and he added his own regulations; and when Eve fell to temptation, he should've known better, and yet he caved in and ate it too.
Click to expand...
Did Eve willingly of her own desire take the fruit? Y or N

The text says the fruit was desired to make her wise.
 
LeviR said:
Did Eve willingly of her own desire take the fruit? Y or N

The text says the fruit was desired to make her wise.
Click to expand...
To whom did God directly order not to eat of the fruit? Adam or Eve? After they ate it, whom did God hold accountable first? Adam or Eve?
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
To whom did God directly order not to eat of the fruit? Adam or Eve? After they ate it, whom did God hold accountable first? Adam or Eve?
Click to expand...
God ordered Adam directly.
God held the serpent accountable first, then the woman, then the man.
Will you answer my question?
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
That is a misogynistic view, blaming Eve for what was orignally Adam's fault, which echoes Adam's own accusation that God gave him the woman who caused him to eat the forbidden fruit. God held him accountable because he was put in charge of the garden, he received the command firsthand, God never told Eve not to "touch the tree", the only possibility is that he relayed it to her, and he added his own regulations; and when Eve fell to temptation, he should've known better, and yet he caved in and ate it too.
Click to expand...

Listen to what the Bible actually says

1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLB
LeviR said:
God ordered Adam directly.
God held the serpent accountable first, then the woman, then the man.
Will you answer my question?
Click to expand...
Indeed God cursed the serpent, Eve and Adam in that order, but he didn't hold the three of them accountable in that order. God questioned Adam first, then Eve, and not the serpent. You made a misleading statement by subtly changing "accountability" into "curse". If you keep deliberately asking loaded questions like SolaScriptura did, then I will only return the favor.

Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?” So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” (Gen. 3:9-11)
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
Indeed God cursed the serpent, Eve and Adam in that order, but he didn't hold the three of them accountable in that order. God questioned Adam first, then Eve, and not the serpent. You made a misleading statement by subtly changing "accountability" into "curse". If you keep deliberately asking loaded questions like SolaScriptura did, then I will only return the favor.

Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?” So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” (Gen. 3:9-11)
Click to expand...
Ok, so you refuse to answer a very simple question. I’s not a trick question.
What is so difficult about whether or not Eve desired the fruit?
The text even says the fruit was to be desired.

Pleasant to the eye, good for food, DESIRED to make one wise.

What’s the problem?
 
SolaScriptura said:
Listen to what the Bible actually says

1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression
Click to expand...
But why did Adam fall into transgression too? Eve was not in charge of the Garden, Adam was, he was in a leadership position, God directly ordered him not to eat the forbidden fruit, how did he end up doing it even though he was NOT deceived? How about you listen to what the Bible actually says regarding God's assessment and judgement of such a situation?

And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (Lk. 12:47-48)
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
But why did Adam fall into transgression too? Eve was not in charge of the Garden, Adam was, he was in a leadership position, God directly ordered him not to eat the forbidden fruit, how did he end up doing it even though he was NOT deceived? How about you listen to what the Bible actually says regarding God's assessment and judgement of such a situation?

And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (Lk. 12:47-48)
Click to expand...

you are avoiding what Paul clearly says in 1 Timothy!

that it was Eve, who was DECEIVED by the devil!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top