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Bible Study Regeneration / Baptism

Grace describes the action of God Who, by His power, graciously saved mankind from death (1 Cor 15:51-55) and will graciously forgive the sins of those who confess (1John 1:9) and who will graciously unite the believer with His Son, Jesus the Christ, (Eph 5:30-32)so that the believer may have eternal life in Christ. (Rom 6:23)

Grace is the attribute of God by which He gives man the right to become His children. (Jhn 1:12)

iakov the fool

Grace is the power of God granted to us, to accomplish what we can not do on own own.

Grace is the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29

  • and insulted the Spirit of grace?


JLB
 
Ehp.2:
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast
10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


iakov the fool
 
All opinion. No scripture.

Your just another internet Troll with nothing to add to God's people.


JLB

If you listen closely, you can hear me yawing from here.....

So, here is the thing.
Open your bible.
Find the New Testament.
What you'll note, if you study a bible and not your misleading commentaries, is that H20 baptism always follows salvation.
Start with the Ethiopian Eunuch , and work from there, JLB.
If you can read, and im assuming you can, then you'll note that its always the same situation...

they BELIEVE, AND THEN..........= THEN they are immersed.
This is because the water follows conversion...it does not attain it, nor is it included in the born again manifestation of a convert.
You always find you have a CONVERSION, and THEN you go to the water.
Just Read the NT.
Its actually not that difficult to free yourself from your confusion about this issue if you'll go to a NT and read.
 
Regeneration is an act of God, Repentance is the act of man responding to the calling of God. repent means to turn around or change of mind. it is the act of man responding to the calling of God. When the word of God washes a man with the Truth (the light of the word of God shinning in the dark places of the soul of a man) (John 15:3) or seeing for the first time what he really is! And if he is grieved enough that he agrees with God....He will repent. This is not Salvation, this is repenting or turning to God's great mercy.

Regeneration is what God does for the repented sinner who calls upon the lord (Matt. 13:14-16).
No action of the flesh brings regeneration. Regeneration only comes by what God sees in your heart. You must be born again. Regeneration is the act of God's grace upon the repented heart that looks to God. You can be baptized a hundred times, the act in itself, void of a repented heart, will not save any man. It is an act of God....not of man. We are not saved by what we want to believe or any works of righteousness, but by the POWER of God's Mercy and Grace alone. Salvation is not a carnal act. It is the supernatural power of God's Spiritual grace in Jesus Christ, and nothing else.
:agreed:amen very well said
 
Aaaahh -not so much

The Holy Spirit is God and a "person" of the Trinity. (hypostasis)
Grace is not a "person." (hypostasis)

iakov the fool

The Spirit of grace is a person.

Grace teaches us...

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age
Titus 2:11-12

...teaching us that,


JLB
 
If you listen closely, you can hear me yawing from here.....

So, here is the thing.
Open your bible.
Find the New Testament.
What you'll note, if you study a bible and not your misleading commentaries, is that H20 baptism always follows salvation.
Start with the Ethiopian Eunuch , and work from there, JLB.
If you can read, and im assuming you can, then you'll note that its always the same situation...

they BELIEVE, AND THEN..........= THEN they are immersed.
This is because the water follows conversion...it does not attain it, nor is it included in the born again manifestation of a convert.
You always find you have a CONVERSION, and THEN you go to the water.
Just Read the NT.
Its actually not that difficult to free yourself from your confusion about this issue if you'll go to a NT and read.

More disrespectful ungodly opinion with no scripture.

Sounds like the accuser of the brethren. :nono


JLB
 
The Spirit of grace is a person.
Grace teaches us...
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age
Titus 2:11-12
...teaching us that,
JLB
:nonono
 
they BELIEVE, AND THEN..........= THEN they are immersed.


Of Course.

If you have ever taken the time to read what I have written about this subject, you would know this.


From the other thread about this subject -


The only way to be regenerated is by being Baptized into the body of Christ, by the Spirit.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

This is not water baptism.


There is no such scripture that says born again of water and Spirit.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
John 3:5

  • one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Born of water is a reference to natural birth.
Born of the Spirit is a reference to Spiritual birth; Born again


A person must be born first, in order to be born "again".

The next verse teaches us this truth -

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

Born of flesh = Natural birth
Born of the Spirit = Spiritual birth.


Jesus used natural birth to illustrate Spiritual birth.

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12

earthly thing = natural birth
heavenly thing = Spiritual birth


JLB
 
Sorry this is long, but sometimes we need the whole of scripture to understand.

We put on Jesus by the renewal of our mind, body and soul through Jesus life, death and resurrection by which we can reconcile ourselves back to Gods grace and mercy through His Salvation of renewal and rebirth of spirit. We now have the mind of Christ as joint heirs with Jesus as we walk in the path of Jesus and not our own path anymore.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God, Romans 8:6, 7.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit. When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first and at the same time of repenting we also receive the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38,39.

This is from the Jerusalem Bible:
John 4:1 When Jesus heard that the Pharisees had found out that he was making and baptizing more disciples than John though in fact it was his disciples who baptized, not Jesus himself he left Judaea and went back to Galilee.


Johns baptism was for repentance, not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit as no one even knew anything of a Holy Spirit until Jesus taught them that another comforter would come down and the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost in the upper room. When Jesus was baptized of John is was to fulfill Gods righteousness in Him to receive Gods power and authority. Water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have been made righteous through Christ and have receive the Holy Spirit as we are given Gods power and authority through His grace to be His servants and witness here on Earth as Christ was.

Mat 3:14 But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.


Mark 10:39; 16:15,16; Acts 2:38 It is Gods Spirit that was in Christ and which we are now baptized or have received as the disciples did on the day of Pentecost as when Jesus ascended into Heaven the Holy Spirit came down and fell on those who received Jesus and his word. The baptism that Jesus and Peter was talking about was a Spiritual rebirth through Gods word, not water, Luke 3:16, as Peter taught it was through repentance and accepting Jesus and his teachings is when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:36-38 we have to believe first and through confession we are given the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44-48 The Holy Spirit already fell on the disciples while they were listening to Peter. (No water involved)

Acts 19:1-7 Johns baptism was for repentance and the Holy Spirit was not received nor even heard of yet until the day in the upper room that Jesus was raised up to Heaven and the Holy Spirit fell down on all of them in that room. John baptized with water unto repentance but only as a symbolic sign that one had already received Jesus through confession/repentance.

John 14:16, 17 Jesus is telling his disciples that he will not leave them, but will send the Holy Spirit to comfort them and teach them. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, Matthew 28:19,20.

Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47, 48 are both talking about water, but not for the remission of sins, but for an afterward appearance of acknowledgement. We are given the Holy Spirit at the same time of repentance and has nothing to do with water baptism as I have stated that water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have already confessed and believed and received the Holy Spirit.


This is what Smith's Bible dictionary says:

To be baptized for Christ shows an intention to become a true follower of Christ. John baptized with water unto repentance but as a sign of it, perhaps only a sign of their willingness to enroll themselves among John’s followers. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

This verse shows that these men had already received the Holy Spirit, but wanted to be baptized in water also as followers of Christ. So I believe both verses in Acts to be water, but not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit, but an outward appearance to others that they have repented and received the Holy Spirit already.



Mat 3:14 But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
 
Sorry this is long, but sometimes we need the whole of scripture to understand.

We put on Jesus by the renewal of our mind, body and soul through Jesus life, death and resurrection by which we can reconcile ourselves back to Gods grace and mercy through His Salvation of renewal and rebirth of spirit. We now have the mind of Christ as joint heirs with Jesus as we walk in the path of Jesus and not our own path anymore.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God, Romans 8:6, 7.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit. When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first and at the same time of repenting we also receive the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38,39.

This is from the Jerusalem Bible:
John 4:1 When Jesus heard that the Pharisees had found out that he was making and baptizing more disciples than John though in fact it was his disciples who baptized, not Jesus himself he left Judaea and went back to Galilee.


Johns baptism was for repentance, not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit as no one even knew anything of a Holy Spirit until Jesus taught them that another comforter would come down and the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost in the upper room. When Jesus was baptized of John is was to fulfill Gods righteousness in Him to receive Gods power and authority. Water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have been made righteous through Christ and have receive the Holy Spirit as we are given Gods power and authority through His grace to be His servants and witness here on Earth as Christ was.

Mat 3:14 But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.


Mark 10:39; 16:15,16; Acts 2:38 It is Gods Spirit that was in Christ and which we are now baptized or have received as the disciples did on the day of Pentecost as when Jesus ascended into Heaven the Holy Spirit came down and fell on those who received Jesus and his word. The baptism that Jesus and Peter was talking about was a Spiritual rebirth through Gods word, not water, Luke 3:16, as Peter taught it was through repentance and accepting Jesus and his teachings is when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:36-38 we have to believe first and through confession we are given the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44-48 The Holy Spirit already fell on the disciples while they were listening to Peter. (No water involved)

Acts 19:1-7 Johns baptism was for repentance and the Holy Spirit was not received nor even heard of yet until the day in the upper room that Jesus was raised up to Heaven and the Holy Spirit fell down on all of them in that room. John baptized with water unto repentance but only as a symbolic sign that one had already received Jesus through confession/repentance.

John 14:16, 17 Jesus is telling his disciples that he will not leave them, but will send the Holy Spirit to comfort them and teach them. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, Matthew 28:19,20.

Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47, 48 are both talking about water, but not for the remission of sins, but for an afterward appearance of acknowledgement. We are given the Holy Spirit at the same time of repentance and has nothing to do with water baptism as I have stated that water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have already confessed and believed and received the Holy Spirit.


This is what Smith's Bible dictionary says:

To be baptized for Christ shows an intention to become a true follower of Christ. John baptized with water unto repentance but as a sign of it, perhaps only a sign of their willingness to enroll themselves among John’s followers. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

This verse shows that these men had already received the Holy Spirit, but wanted to be baptized in water also as followers of Christ. So I believe both verses in Acts to be water, but not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit, but an outward appearance to others that they have repented and received the Holy Spirit already.



Mat 3:14 But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Acts 2:38 in any translation I know of teaches baptism is FOR the remission of sins.
God bless,
Billy
 
Without repentance, baptism is nothing.

Amen.
Nor does baptism remit sins,

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
So there the requirement for repentance is covered.
And then Peter said to be baptized for the remission of sin.
it is the blood of Christ and faith in him.
Act 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.
So that says that believing gives remission.
Hebrews 9 and 10 talk about Jesus' sacrifice (blood) giving remission of sin but not is so many words.

The remission of sins is received in baptism because the "old man", the "body of sin", is joined to Jesus in His death and is buried with Christ in the waters of baptism. So sin is remitted because your "sinful self" dies and is buried and then your "born again self" is raised from the waters of baptism leaving the old, sinful man dead and buried.

iakov the fool
 
Without repentance, baptism is nothing. Nor does baptism remit sins, it is the blood of Christ and faith in him.


Well, please read again Acts 2:38 and tell us when remission of sins occurs, before or after baptism? And when in Acts 2:38 does the promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit occur, before or after baptism? Of course its true that "baptism without repentance is nothing".

Thank you, Billy
 
It would be a lot easier to delete an insulting post if it wasn't in response to another insulting post.

Not aimed at the last poster. I just read through many posts and a few were just folks taking jabs at each other.
 
Last edited:
The remission of sins is received in baptism because the "old man", the "body of sin", is joined to Jesus in His death and is buried with Christ in the waters of baptism. So sin is remitted because your "sinful self" dies and is buried and then your "born again self" is raised from the waters of baptism leaving the old, sinful man dead and buried.

iakov the fool
This is true Jim. When I was baptized is when I noticed the filling of the Holy Spirit. But it was not because I got baptized, It was because I followed Christ by heart and mind (answering the calling). But I know a multitude of people that get baptized to be saved. They put their faith in the act of baptism to be saved. They baptize infants so they will be saved. Surely you understand that baptism in itself is not salvation. If it was, Paul would not have made the statement in (1 Cor. 1:14)

Act 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.
So that says that believing gives remission.
When you believe in Christ, do you not believe He is the Lamb of God? (John 1:29) The life is in the blood.(Leviticus 17:11). His passion was during the Passover. He was the Passover Lamb of God.
 
Well, please read again Acts 2:38 and tell us when remission of sins occurs, before or after baptism? And when in Acts 2:38 does the promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit occur, before or after baptism? Of course its true that "baptism without repentance is nothing".

Thank you, Billy
I received the presence of the Holy Spirit after I was baptized. Can not anyone understand this? It was the result of following the calling of the heart felt need of the savior. Following Christ....not by the act of being baptized. People who get baptized to be saved feel they have fulfilled the requirements to be a christian, and they are so satisfied in that act, that they sit on their laurels (crowning themselves) by the act of baptism, expecting all the promises of material wealth promised to Israel. The Lord has called us, You don't join by baptism! We do not deserve better than the Lord. Every born again believer has been given a gift or gifts by the Spirit, not to do with as he pleases, but to become a vessel for the manifestation of the Spirit's will. (1 Cor. 12:11) (1 Cor.12:1-31). To be baptized to be saved results in a loveless type of Christianity (1 Cor. 13:1-13)
 
I received the presence of the Holy Spirit after I was baptized. Can not anyone understand this? It was the result of following the calling of the heart felt need of the savior. Following Christ....not by the act of being baptized. People who get baptized to be saved feel they have fulfilled the requirements to be a christian, and they are so satisfied in that act, that they sit on their laurels (crowning themselves) by the act of baptism, expecting all the promises of material wealth promised to Israel. The Lord has called us, You don't join by baptism! We do not deserve better than the Lord. Every born again believer has been given a gift or gifts by the Spirit, not to do with as he pleases, but to become a vessel for the manifestation of the Spirit's will. (1 Cor. 12:11) (1 Cor.12:1-31). To be baptized to be saved results in a loveless type of Christianity (1 Cor. 13:1-13)

Please return to my post # 34 and answer the simple questions, its really not hard to do. Much of what you say above are in my understanding judgmental for they do not apply to me and the Lord only knows how many others. For example, your last sentence: "TO BE BAPTIZED TO BE SAVED RESULTS IN A LOVELESS TYPE OF CHRISTIANITY''. Such may be true of some but the Christ knows the heart. BTW, it was the Christ who said Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, he that beliveth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned", Mk.16:15,16. It would seem sir your argument is with Jesus who is the Christ.

I ask you sir to join me on the one on one and we shall go into Acts 2:38 and Mk.16:15,16 (as well other passages) in great depth.

Looking forward to your agreement to do so.
Wishing you and yours well, Billy
 
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