Bible Study Regeneration / Baptism

[for_his_glory]

Baptize is a transliterated word. Do you know what the word baptism means? It means burial or immersion. Search it out.
Thanks, Billy

This is what Smith's Bible dictionary says:
To be baptized for Christ shows an intention to become a true follower of Christ. John baptized with water unto repentance but as a sign of it, perhaps only a sign of their willingness to enroll themselves among John’s followers. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

This verse shows that these men had already received the Holy Spirit, but wanted to be baptized in water also as followers of Christ. So I believe both verses in Acts to be water, but not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit, but an outward appearance to others that they have repented and received the Holy Spirit already.

 

[for_his_glory]

Acts 2:38 in any translation I know of teaches baptism is FOR the remission of sins.
God bless,
Billy

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:10,11) as in the Father, the word (living water) and the Holy Spirit.
The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as he spoke Gods word (living water) through Gods Spirit that dwelled in Christ and given to all to know Gods word (John 14:26) after ascending to sit at Gods right side as our intercessor before the Father.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

 

[billybalke]

This is what Smith's Bible dictionary says:
To be baptized for Christ shows an intention to become a true follower of Christ. John baptized with water unto repentance but as a sign of it, perhaps only a sign of their willingness to enroll themselves among John’s followers. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

This verse shows that these men had already received the Holy Spirit, but wanted to be baptized in water also as followers of Christ. So I believe both verses in Acts to be water, but not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit, but an outward appearance to others that they have repented and received the Holy Spirit already.

Jesus still says "Go ye into all the world ,and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" Mark 16:15,16. Jesus has NEVER rescinded this.

WHO will you believe some uninspired man who does not want to believe or will you believe Jesus by Whose words YOU will be judged in the day of judgment?? Please read Jn.12:48.

 

[billybalke]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:10,11) as in the Father, the word (living water) and the Holy Spirit.
The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as he spoke Gods word (living water) through Gods Spirit that dwelled in Christ and given to all to know Gods word (John 14:26) after ascending to sit at Gods right side as our intercessor before the Father.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38 STILL reads "repent and be baptized FOR (emp. mine) the remission of sins ---". Your argument is with the Holy Spirit inspired apostle Peter, not Billy.

Godbless

 

[for_his_glory]

Acts 2:38 STILL reads "repent and be baptized FOR (emp. mine) the remission of sins ---". Your argument is with the Holy Spirit inspired apostle Peter, not Billy.

Godbless

I'm not arguing, but trying to discuss this matter that is so important to understand as many think just by being dunk in dirty river water saves you just as I thought many years ago. John's baptism had nothing to do with repentance, but only symbolized that we are washed clean of our sins when we repent first as Peter said to repent first and then be baptized in the Holy Spirit. At the timing of John's ministry the Holy Spirit had not yet come to indwell anyone. It wouldn't be until Jesus was taken up to heaven that the Holy Spirit would come down to indwell those who repented first and were then immersed (baptized) in the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

When Jesus was baptized of John is was to fulfill righteousness in Him to receive Gods power and authority to start His ministry here on earth. Jesus had nothing to repent of as Johns baptism was a fulfillment of Messiah come.

 

[billybalke]

I'm not arguing, but trying to discuss this matter that is so important to understand as many think just by being dunk in dirty river water saves you just as I thought many years ago. John's baptism had nothing to do with repentance, but only symbolized that we are washed clean of our sins when we repent first as Peter said to repent first and then be baptized in the Holy Spirit. At the timing of John's ministry the Holy Spirit had not yet come to indwell anyone. It wouldn't be until Jesus was taken up to heaven that the Holy Spirit would come down to indwell those who repented first and were then immersed (baptized) in the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

When Jesus was baptized of John is was to fulfill righteousness in Him to receive Gods power and authority to start His ministry here on earth. Jesus had nothing to repent of as Johns baptism was a fulfillment of Messiah come.

We aren't discussing the baptism of John, it is now null and void. What we are talking about is the baptism commanded by Jesus the Christ and taught by His apostles (such as Peter in Acts 2:38). Again, your argument is with Jesus and Peter, not Billy.

 

[Kidron]

______________________________________

Kidron, they all say OF WATER. I don't see the difference.
Also, the CC believes baptism removes original sin and the person DOES receive the Holy Spirit, however, if you speak to a priest or anyone that teaches there, they'll say that the HolySpirit is NOT ACTIVE until the person becomes believer.

-
Yes, its a Satanic theology that teaches, preaches, and believes that "born again BY WATER", is how God provides the atonement to a person.
I noticed you provided the scripture from the Catholic "good news" bible.
Well, i can assure you that its not good news to be lied to by a bible and a cult, that teaches that you are "born again by water".
(according to that bible),(according to Catholic theology).

Also, the Douay–Rheims bible is created by a greek text that is known to be corrupt, and is not accepted by any Protestant church, unless this church is corrupt.

A completely different greek text created the KJV, for example.

I could spent hours here posting missing scriptures and twisted scriptures that you'll discover if you study the NIV, (Charismatic Bible) as compared to the KJV or the Amplified, or others.

 

[for_his_glory]

We aren't discussing the baptism of John, it is now null and void. What we are talking about is the baptism commanded by Jesus the Christ and taught by His apostles (such as Peter in Acts 2:38). Again, your argument is with Jesus and Peter, not Billy.

There is no argument as I do not argue the word of God, but do enjoy a good discussion and John's baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit is very relevant to this discussion, but since you are not opened to discuss it I will move on. God bless

 

[billybalke]

There is no argument as I do not argue the word of God, but do enjoy a good discussion and John's baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit is very relevant to this discussion, but since you are not opened to discuss it I will move on. God bless

I'm open to discussing John's baptism, but why do you want to discuss something which ended before Pentecost in Acts 2? Read Acts 19, thats all the 12 diciples of John knew and had to be taught the way of the Lord more perfectly. People today get hooked on Holy Spirit baptism, yet it does not occur today.

You wrote: "but snce you are not opened to discuss it I will move on" is not true. I urge you to join me on the one on one on the subject of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, yes even John's baptism if thats what you want. It will be just you and I, but its not true that as you say "I am not open to discuss it.

Question: Are you willing to affirm that John's baptism is valid today? If so moderator WIP will put you on.
Question: Are you willing to affirm that Holy Spirit baptism is valid today? If so moderator WIP will put on. Affirm it on the one on one and I will deny it and all on this forum can read it.
My very best wishes for you--Billy

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm open to discussing John's baptism, but why do you want to discuss something which ended before Pentecost in Acts 2? Read Acts 19, thats all the 12 diciples of John knew and had to be taught the way of the Lord more perfectly. People today get hooked on Holy Spirit baptism, yet it does not occur today.

You wrote: "but snce you are not opened to discuss it I will move on" is not true. I urge you to join me on the one on one on the subject of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, yes even John's baptism if thats what you want. It will be just you and I, but its not true that as you say "I am not open to discuss it.

Question: Are you willing to affirm that John's baptism is valid today? If so moderator WIP will put you on.
Question: Are you willing to affirm that Holy Spirit baptism is valid today? If so moderator WIP will put on. Affirm it on the one on one and I will deny it and all on this forum can read it.
My very best wishes for you--Billy

I would rather not do a one on one as I have pretty much said all I can say on the subject, plus as you said you do not believe it is for today so why go on that merry-go-round.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Thank you Doug. As I said, I believe you to be honest and sincere but honestly wrong. So was I once but had to keep on studying. Again, unless you wish to study on the one on one I shall leave you. You may wish to study via e-mail if not theone on one.
God bless, Billy

I have studied the Bible and I believe he's right on in everything he said. He's sincerely right IMHO. And it's not a lack of studying that brought me here, it's a lifetime of studying including graduating from a Bible College in MN. So it's a weak argument to offer someone that they just need to "keep studying" and they will find the truth as have you. This is an old debate and theologians from both sides of the debate disagree. Did one of them not study enough? I'm sure they have studied circles around the both of us.

 

[JLB]

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:10,11) as in the Father, the word (living water) and the Holy Spirit.

John 3:5 and 1 John 5:6 both refer to natural child birth.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

The "water" is a reference to natural birth which the next verse clarifies, as it says -

That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

This same John uses this phrase again in his epistle 1 John 5, but with the emphasis on the virgin birth.

6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1 John 5:6

• not only by water, but by water and blood.

This is a reference to the virgin birth and proof Jesus is the Messiah.

He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood.

• "Born of water" or "came by water" refers to natural child birth.

• Came by "water and blood" refers to supernatural virgin birth.

JLB

 

[billybalke]

I have studied the Bible and I believe he's right on in everything he said. He's sincerely right IMHO. And it's not a lack of studying that brought me here, it's a lifetime of studying including graduating from a Bible College in MN. So it's a weak argument to offer someone that they just need to "keep studying" and they will find the truth as have you. This is an old debate and theologians from both sides of the debate disagree. Did one of them not study enough? I'm sure they have studied circles around the both of us.

Hi Papa. what I
said in that post was: "So was I once but had to keep on studying". I DID NOT say "--they just need to 'keep studying' and they will find the truth as have you ." Big difference!

Lets notice what the scripture says about "study" and thats what I stick to. Paul wrote in I Timothy 2:15 these inspired words: "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Paul never said we are to stop studying God's word which is the truth. He DID say we are to "rightly divide the word of truth". Therein lies the problem. One of us or BOTH of us are not "dividing the word of truth". So I keep on studying and urge all to do the same. That is why I offer all to join me on the one-on-one so study can be done without interference.
As usual, God bless, Billy

 

[billybalke]

I would rather not do a one on one as I have pretty much said all I can say on the subject, plus as you said you do not believe it is for today so why go on that merry-go-round.

Thank you, I respect your decision.--Billy

 

[Papa Zoom]

Hi Papa. what I
said in that post was: "So was I once but had to keep on studying". I DID NOT say "--they just need to 'keep studying' and they will find the truth as have you ." Big difference!

Lets notice what the scripture says about "study" and thats what I stick to. Paul wrote in I Timothy 2:15 these inspired words: "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Paul never said we are to stop studying God's word which is the truth. He DID say we are to "rightly divide the word of truth". Therein lies the problem. One of us or BOTH of us are not "dividing the word of truth". So I keep on studying and urge all to do the same. That is why I offer all to join me on the one-on-one so study can be done without interference.
As usual, God bless, Billy

I'm all for studying together. I'm not all for someone saying upon my studying, my conclusion isn't the correct one because they have a different conclusion. Jesus saves. That's it. Not baptism. Not works. Nothing else. Just Jesus. The Bible is clear on this. I'm certain of this. But you have reached a different conclusion. I'll never convince you otherwise because you will interpret things different and me and you'll never convince me for the same reason. It's a go nowhere discussion. I've already been on the baptism is necessary side of the argument but left it long ago.

 

[billybalke]

I'm all for studying together. I'm not all for someone saying upon my studying, my conclusion isn't the correct one because they have a different conclusion. Jesus saves. That's it. Not baptism. Not works. Nothing else. Just Jesus. The Bible is clear on this. I'm certain of this. But you have reached a different conclusion. I'll never convince you otherwise because you will interpret things different and me and you'll never convince me for the same reason. It's a go nowhere discussion. I've already been on the baptism is necessary side of the argument but left it long ago.

Thank you Papa. I quote you: "I'm not at all for someone saying upon my studying, my conclusion isn't the correct one because because they have a different conclusion." In our matter this applies both ways as you both conclude I'm wrong as I conclude you to be wrong.

We both agree that "Jesus saves". May we both continue to study.
As always, be blessed, Billy

 

[GodsGrace]

-
Yes, its a Satanic theology that teaches, preaches, and believes that "born again BY WATER", is how God provides the atonement to a person.
I noticed you provided the scripture from the Catholic "good news" bible.
Well, i can assure you that its not good news to be lied to by a bible and a cult, that teaches that you are "born again by water".
(according to that bible),(according to Catholic theology).

Also, the Douay–Rheims bible is created by a greek text that is known to be corrupt, and is not accepted by any Protestant church, unless this church is corrupt.

A completely different greek text created the KJV, for example.

I could spent hours here posting missing scriptures and twisted scriptures that you'll discover if you study the NIV, (Charismatic Bible) as compared to the KJV or the Amplified, or others.

I do have the NIV but use the NASB.
IF I don't understand something I'll go the the KJV or even the NIV, it does help at times.
I do know that they translated according to what the translators believe.
I also use the YLT.

I do have to say that I don't agree that the Catholic Church is a cult.
Many say this and, frankly, I don't understand it.

A cult means that you are following a person.
The C C teaches Jesus, NOT a person.

We can believe that they teach incorrect doctrine. OK.
But how could you call them a cult??

 

[for_his_glory]

John 3:5 and 1 John 5:6 both refer to natural child birth.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

The "water" is a reference to natural birth which the next verse clarifies, as it says -

That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

This same John uses this phrase again in his epistle 1 John 5, but with the emphasis on the virgin birth.

6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1 John 5:6

• not only by water, but by water and blood.

This is a reference to the virgin birth and proof Jesus is the Messiah.

He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood.

• "Born of water" or "came by water" refers to natural child birth.

• Came by "water and blood" refers to supernatural virgin birth.

JLB

Question was asked:
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Questioned answered:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Explanation:
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Embryonic fluid has nothing to do with what Jesus was saying being born of water and of Spirit. What would embryonic fluid have to do with being born of the Spirit. If one had not heard the word (living water) of Jesus in John 3:5 then they would not know of a Spiritual rebirth.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Thank you Papa. I quote you: "I'm not at all for someone saying upon my studying, my conclusion isn't the correct one because because they have a different conclusion." In our matter this applies both ways as you both conclude I'm wrong as I conclude you to be wrong.

We both agree that "Jesus saves". May we both continue to study.
As always, be blessed, Billy

To me, that's the most important part. Find what unifies. If someone asked, I'd say get baptized the moment you believed. Why? That's is the record of Scripture. Just do it. Don't discuss it and argue. Get wet. Then get busy following Jesus. Serving others. Loving others. And giving as God has blessed. ;)

And yes, it applies both ways. Even though I don't always say it, I could be wrong in my view, but here's why I believe what I believe..........

 

[billybalke]

I do have the NIV but use the NASB.
IF I don't understand something I'll go the the KJV or even the NIV, it does help at times.
I do know that they translated according to what the translators believe.
I also use the YLT.

I do have to say that I don't agree that the Catholic Church is a cult.
Many say this and, frankly, I don't understand it.

A cult means that you are following a person.
The C C teaches Jesus, NOT a person.

We can believe that they teach incorrect doctrine. OK.
But how could you call them a cult??

Hi Wondering---It is my conviction that the NIV is not a worthy faithful translation. There are many good places but also many bad. I use the old KJV, my wife uses the ASV. I believe the ESV also to be very faithful.
God bless, Billy