Bible Study Regeneration / Baptism

[Kidron]

he that beliveth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned", Mk.16:15,16.

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Did you notice that "not being damned", according to the verse you posted..., .. = the apostle was careful to not attribute water baptism with damnation?
This is because he is showing you that "belief", and not water, is the only way to be saved,.... OR, lack of it, is the only way to be "damned".
Water Baptism has no influence on ither.
This is because God only accepts a person based on what they do with His Son.
When you take Christ, God takes you.
Water has nothing to do with redemption.
You are water baptized for the same reason you wear a uniform in the Army.
It represents what you have become., but its not because you wear it, its because you signed up.
The uniform, just like water baptism, is simply a signifier of an event, that has already taken place.
So, you wear an army uniform, AFTER you sign up and are accepted, and you are water baptized AFTER you are saved.
Ditto = same.
THis is why you can be sprinkled, confirmed, and water baptized, and still go to hell like a bullet and burn like a torch later in the lake of fire.
But if you are SAVED, you can't.

 

[GodsGrace]

What if one is baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) and has an honest heart?

What do you mean by "baptized for the remission of sins"?
John the Baptist did this.
I don't know what it means in today's Church.
Please explain...

 

[GodsGrace]

billybalke
Sorry. I'm late to the thread...

I won't even read everything.

If you were baptized, for whatever reason, and were a believer at the time,
and were baptized in the name of the Father , the Son and the Holy Spirit,
you have completed the requirements that Jesus asked.
Believe and be baptized.
Mark 16:16
Mathew 28:19

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, please read again Acts 2:38 and tell us when remission of sins occurs, before or after baptism? And when in Acts 2:38 does the promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit occur, before or after baptism? Of course its true that "baptism without repentance is nothing".

Thank you, Billy

Hi BB
Remission of sins occurs at the moment you believe on Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
The gift of the Holy Spirit:

Not everyone receives this gift. We each receive a different gift.
1 Corinthians 12
1 Corinthians 12:7-11

Some understand the gift of the Holy Spirit to be the speaking in tongues.
This could be said to be the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

But everyone who believes is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:3b

IF you are baptized BEFORE saving faith in Jesus, it is still valid as a baptism.
This happens in the Catholic Church where infants are baptized.
The adult is then asked to "accept" his baptism. Not all adults do.

Some churches, these days, are requesting for persons to be baptized AGAIN if they want to be a member of their congregation. This is not correct. What if someone changes churches 3X in their life...must they be baptized three times?

It would take away the importance of baptism and reduce it to a ritual.

 

[GodsGrace]

-
Did you notice that "not being damned", according to the verse you posted..., .. = the apostle was careful to not attribute water baptism with damnation?
This is because he is showing you that "belief", and not water, is the only way to be saved,.... OR, lack of it, is the only way to be "damned".
Water Baptism has no influence on ither.
This is because God only accepts a person based on what they do with His Son.
When you take Christ, God takes you.
Water has nothing to do with redemption.
You are water baptized for the same reason you wear a uniform in the Army.
It represents what you have become., but its not because you wear it, its because you signed up.
The uniform, just like water baptism, is simply a signifier of an event, that has already taken place.
So, you wear an army uniform, AFTER you sign up and are accepted, and you are water baptized AFTER you are saved.
Ditto = same.
THis is why you can be sprinkled, confirmed, and water baptized, and still go to hell like a bullet and burn like a torch later in the lake of fire.
But if you are SAVED, you can't.

Hi Kidron,

I'd just like to say that even in the Catholic Church adults are told that they are to believe in Jesus ad to accept their baptism to be saved. YES: This is actually said nowadays.

If a person does not "accept" their baptism, they are not considered to be saved, although the CC does not condemn anyone and Leaves the judging to God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Acts 2:38 in any translation I know of teaches baptism is FOR the remission of sins.
God bless,
Billy

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Notice Peter says to repent first and then be baptized, but never says anything about immersion in water.

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.

 

[Kidron]

If a person does not "accept" their baptism, they are not considered to be saved, .

Its interesting that to be saved is to be " water baptized", according to what you have written,= is what they believe and teach.
This comes from their particular corrupt BIBLE that teaches that "water regenerates".
= Douay-Rheims Bible """Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be BORN AGAIN OF > WATER"

So, Do you see the satanic part of that bible translation?
= "born AGAIN of water".
See that?
BORN AGAIN > "OF" > WATER
This is teaching that you are born again BY and IN, the water.
That its the WATER that REGENERATES YOU = (Born Again).
And this is why they dont consider you to be saved, unless you are "born again OF water".
See that "OF"?
This means, the water ITSELF is the cause of the spiritual regeneration.
This is Amazingly Satanic, and so many have no clue.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Ritual is important for the RCC. I don't think that makes them Satanic, anymore than the PCUSA church I grew up in was/is "satanic" for regarding baptism as an important ritual, but placing the emphasis on The Holy Spirit's work in the heart of the person (along with the invisible church stuff, etc...). For the purposes of converting thru RCIA, the RCC recognizes --most-- peoples' baptisms as valid.

 

[Jim Parker]

But it was not because I got baptized, It was because I followed Christ by heart and mind (answering the calling).

And you obeyed His command to be baptized.

But I know a multitude of people that get baptized to be saved. They put their faith in the act of baptism to be saved.

Putting ones faith in baptism is a demonstration of not understanding the Gospel. Unfortunately, there are many who believe that doing those things will buy you a ticket to paradise.

They baptize infants so they will be saved.

Yeah. Israel circumcised their male children on the 8th day after they were born to make them a member of God's covenant community. Baptizing infants is a whole other discussion.

Surely you understand that baptism in itself is not salvation.

Baptism is how one is "born again." (Ro 6:3-4)

If it was, Paul would not have made the statement in (1 Cor. 1:14)

That verse is part of the section of 1 Corinthians where Paul was talking about divisions in the church. It has nothing to do with salvation. Your reference to it in that context demonstrates the problem of coming up with the wrong understanding of a bit of scripture because it was taken out of context.

He was the Passover Lamb of God.

That's what the Passover prefigured; Jesus' one for all sacrifice for all the sins of all mankind for all time.


iakov the fool

 

[Kidron]

Ritual is important for the RCC..

Ritual is important for humanity.
However, if your bible tells you that water regenerates you.....that water is the means of regeneration....that you are BORN AGAIN by/of Water, then your bible is Satanic, and of course any "church" that teaches this, is the same.
According to Jesus, He is the Way, and the Holy Spirit is the means of regeneration. "Born again".
So, if a bible, a BIBLE disputes this, and teaches instead that you are born again by water, then that bible has rejected truth that is THE most important truth there is for a believer.
How many millions are walking around this planet, who think that because they were once "water baptized", that they are now saved because their church told them they were because that church's BIBLE teaches their PRIEST - Ministers - to TEACH everyone they can find that the WATER is how to become "born again"?
The problem is....that's a lie.

 

[GodsGrace]

Its interesting that to be saved is to be " water baptized", according to what you have written,= is what they believe and teach.
This comes from their particular corrupt BIBLE that teaches that "water regenerates".
= Douay-Rheims Bible """Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be BORN AGAIN OF > WATER"

So, Do you see the satanic part of that bible translation?
= "born AGAIN of water".
See that?
BORN AGAIN > "OF" > WATER
This is teaching that you are born again BY and IN, the water.
That its the WATER that REGENERATES YOU = (Born Again).
And this is why they dont consider you to be saved, unless you are "born again OF water".
See that "OF"?
This means, the water ITSELF is the cause of the spiritual regeneration.
This is Amazingly Satanic, and so many have no clue.

Kidron,
I hope you remember that I'm no longer Catholic, however you did send me running to some bibles!

I have 3 on my desk right now.
I pulled them out because what you're saying contradicts what I said.

I said that the CC teaches that, although they baptize infants, it is taught (and I myself have taught this there) that one must ACCEPT their baptism in order to be saved. Baptism alone is NOT enough.

If I've understood you, you're not confirming the above.

You seem to make a point of the fact that the Catholic bible is different.
I don't see this. I wonder what Catholic bible you use...not that we should get into this.

Just for clarification for those reading along that might be interested:

The Catholic Good News Bible:
John 3:5-6
"I am telling you the truth, replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he s born OF WATER and the spirit. A person is born physically of human parents, but he is born spiritually of the spirit".
(paraphrased, not the best translation)

The Italian San Paolo Bibbia:
John 3:5-6
"Truly, truly, I say to you, if one is not born OF THE WATER, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That born of flesh is flesh, that born of spirit is spirit".
(my translations. This is a respected version)

NASB
John 3.5-6
5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
______________________________________

[URL='https://www.bible.com/bible/100/JHN.3.5-6.nasb']Kidron, they all say OF WATER. I don't see the difference.
Also, the CC believes baptism removes original sin and the person DOES receive the Holy Spirit, however, if you speak to a priest or anyone that teaches there, they'll say that the HolySpirit is NOT ACTIVE until the person becomes believer.



[/URL]

 

[Douglas Summers]

", Mk.16:15,16. It would seem sir your argument is with Jesus who is the Christ.

Billy, The Lord has personally put me through trials by fire, I have no teacher but Christ. Any born again believer knows what I'am talking about. When I asked the Lord to show me the Truth, as I did not see it in the Churches, He took from me everything that I had. I lost my job through the help of the evil christian employees that I was in charge of. Always talking about the Bible and Scripture, while they connived to get me fired...for no reason, other than they could do it. When I lost everything, I had nothing to hold on to but the Lord, That is when my teaching began with many trials, visions and fellowship. I'am not interested in someone trying to teach me their views of Scripture after having the Teacher Himself to enlighten me. The born again believer understands what I'am saying, because it is Spiritual....not carnal. So I have no argument with the Christ, He is the head of the body. You must be born again. I have no friend but Jesus.

 

[billybalke]

-
Did you notice that "not being damned", according to the verse you posted..., .. = the apostle was careful to not attribute water baptism with damnation?
This is because he is showing you that "belief", and not water, is the only way to be saved,.... OR, lack of it, is the only way to be "damned".
Water Baptism has no influence on ither.
This is because God only accepts a person based on what they do with His Son.
When you take Christ, God takes you.
Water has nothing to do with redemption.
You are water baptized for the same reason you wear a uniform in the Army.
It represents what you have become., but its not because you wear it, its because you signed up.
The uniform, just like water baptism, is simply a signifier of an event, that has already taken place.
So, you wear an army uniform, AFTER you sign up and are accepted, and you are water baptized AFTER you are saved.
Ditto = same.
THis is why you can be sprinkled, confirmed, and water baptized, and still go to hell like a bullet and burn like a torch later in the lake of fire.
But if you are SAVED, you can't.

Would you be willing to discuss this with me on the one on one?

 

[billybalke]

Billy, The Lord has personally put me through trials by fire, I have no teacher but Christ. Any born again believer knows what I'am talking about. When I asked the Lord to show me the Truth, as I did not see it in the Churches, He took from me everything that I had. I lost my job through the help of the evil christian employees that I was in charge of. Always talking about the Bible and Scripture, while they connived to get me fired...for no reason, other than they could do it. When I lost everything, I had nothing to hold on to but the Lord, That is when my teaching began with many trials, visions and fellowship. I'am not interested in someone trying to teach me their views of Scripture after having the Teacher Himself to enlighten me. The born again believer understands what I'am saying, because it is Spiritual....not carnal. So I have no argument with the Christ, He is the head of the body. You must be born again. I have no friend but Jesus.

Thank you Doug. I do believe with all my heart that you are very sincere. However, I do believe you are sincerely mistaken. Any time you feel like talking on the one one about these matters feel free to let me know.

God bless,and best wishes--Billy

 

[billybalke]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Notice Peter says to repent first and then be baptized, but never says anything about immersion in water.

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Notice Peter says to repent first and then be baptized, but never says anything about immersion in water.

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.

Baptize is a transliterated word. Do you know what the word baptism means? It means burial or immersion. Search it out.
Thanks, Billy

 

[billybalke]

billybalke
Sorry. I'm late to the thread...

I won't even read everything.

If you were baptized, for whatever reason, and were a believer at the time,
and were baptized in the name of the Father , the Son and the Holy Spirit,
you have completed the requirements that Jesus asked.
Believe and be baptized.
Mark 16:16
Mathew 28:19

There is only one baptism today and has been since about 63 A.D., see Eph.4:5. Baptism, which is by immersion must be done in the right way (immersion, burial) and for the right reason (for remission of sins). Hope this helps.
Be well, Billy

 

[billybalke]

What do you mean by "baptized for the remission of sins"?
John the Baptist did this.
I don't know what it means in today's Church.TRRr
Please explain...

Hi Wondering.
Very briefly, ''AND FROM JESUS CHRIST, WHO IS THE FAITHFUL WITNESS, AND THE FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD, AND THE PRINCE OF THE KINGS OF THE EARTH. UNTO HIM THAT LOVED US, AND WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD'', Rev.1:5. Note sins are washed in the blood of Jesus. Now, lets read Acts 22:16: ''AND NOW WHY TARRIEST THOU? ARISE, AND BE BAPTIZED, AND WASH AWAY THY SINS, CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD.'' Here sins are said to be washed away in baptism. Sins are washed away in the blood, sins are washed away in baptism. Baptism is the point when the precious blood of Jesus is applied to our sin ridden souls. Remember, things equal to each other are equal to the same thing.
This has been very brief, only a starting point. I usually challenge others on this forum to discuss it with me on the one on one but few do.
Should you ever wish to study this subject further, or any Bible subject I will give you my e-mail address and we can study privately. It is always "what saith the scripture?" Romans 4:3.

You may if interested, read some of my one on ones with some of the good folk on this forum. Click on Theology then on the one on one.

Best wishes, and God bless, Billy

 

[Douglas Summers]

Thank you Doug. I do believe with all my heart that you are very sincere. However, I do believe you are sincerely mistaken. Any time you feel like talking on the one one about these matters feel free to let me know.

God bless,and best wishes--Billy

How can a man be mistaken who is called by The Lord?...........He can not be; but by zeal, he can sometimes run ahead of the Lord. But he can not promote false doctrine, because it is not I who walks teaching by self will as many do, for I'am compassed about by Spiritual company. This is how God equips all of His own. He picks no one because they are righteous, but those who receive Him He makes righteous. Too many put their satisfaction in knowledge instead of sowing through the love of God. You will know more about the love of God when the world shuns you because of Christ in your life.

 

[Douglas Summers]

'AND NOW WHY TARRIEST THOU? ARISE, AND BE BAPTIZED, AND WASH AWAY THY SINS, CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD.'' Here sins are said to be washed away in baptism. Sins are washed away in the blood, sins are washed away in baptism. Baptism is the point when the precious blood of Jesus is applied to our sin ridden souls.

Our Sins are washed away by calling on the name of the "Lord" (Rom. 10:12-14) (1 Cor. 1:2) (Acts 4:11-12). Christ's disciples received the Holy Spirit without baptism (Acts 1:6-9) (Acts 2:1-21) Please read the Scriptures. Paul received the Holy Spirit without baptism. (Acts. 9:1-20). The discussion here is that water baptism is not necessary to be saved or receive the Holy Spirit, but that the calling of God and answering that calling by calling on the name of the Lord, you will receive the Holy Spirit. You get baptized because you are saved, you do not get baptized to be saved. Paul explains the act of baptism upon the believer. ( Rom. 6:1-13) (Col. 2:9-13) By faith we die to self in baptism and are raised as a new man in Christ.. Those who call upon the name of the Lord (will be saved and regenerated) Following after Christ's death and resurrection (in type) by baptism. Study the Scriptures.

 

[billybalke]

Our Sins are washed away by calling on the name of the "Lord" (Rom. 10:12-14) (1 Cor. 1:2) (Acts 4:11-12). Christ's disciples received the Holy Spirit without baptism (Acts 1:6-9) (Acts 2:1-21) Please read the Scriptures. Paul received the Holy Spirit without baptism. (Acts. 9:1-20). The discussion here is that water baptism is not necessary to be saved or receive the Holy Spirit, but that the calling of God and answering that calling by calling on the name of the Lord, you will receive the Holy Spirit. You get baptized because you are saved, you do not get baptized to be saved. Paul explains the act of baptism upon the believer. ( Rom. 6:1-13) (Col. 2:9-13) By faith we die to self in baptism and are raised as a new man in Christ.. Those who call upon the name of the Lord (will be saved and regenerated) Following after Christ's death and resurrection (in type) by baptism. Study the Scriptures.

Thank you Doug. As I said, I believe you to be honest and sincere but honestly wrong. So was I once but had to keep on studying. Again, unless you wish to study on the one on one I shall leave you. You may wish to study via e-mail if not theone on one.
God bless, Billy