Nobody knows what you are, you've never said.
My guess is that you are part of the Apostolic Reformation.
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Bible Study Remember The Sabbath
- Thread starter JohnDB
- Start date
My guess is that you are part of the Apostolic Reformation.
J
jocor
Guest
If I must put a label on myself, I am a Messianic Israelite (not to be confused with a Messianic Jew).
more like mid afternoon on friday.
6:00 PM being the start of the Sabbath.
Zechariah says it this way -
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east...
It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light. Zechariah 14:4,6-7
and again -
The sun will be darkened and the moon will not give it's light [ Matthew 24:29-30] ... Then the light of the world will appear, and the lawless one shall be destroyed by the brightness of His Coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8
JLB
That group doesn't believe Jesus is the Lord God, but rather a man.
The do believe He is the Messiah, but not The Lord God of Israel.
They believe he is a lord like Abraham was called lord, by his wife.
Interestingly enough, Muslims also believe Jesus was a man, but not the Lord God.
There were also those in the bible that were called "believing" Jews, as they believed He was the Messiah.
Here is the account of a conversation between Jesus and some "believing" Jews.
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can you say, 'You will be made free'?"
34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
37 "I know that you are Abraham's descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.
38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father."
39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.
41 You do the deeds of your father." Then they said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father--God."
[born of fornication was a reference to Mary being with Child before Joseph and her were married.]
They did not believe He was born from a Virgin, nor was He God's Son.
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."
48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, "Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?"
49 Jesus answered, "I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.
50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.
51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."
52 Then the Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.'
53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Whom do You make Yourself out to be?"
54 Jesus answered, "If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.
55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:31-59
The reason they picked up stones to stone Him to death, was He claimed to be YHWH, I AM.
This was done by Jews who believed in Him.
JLB
Edward
2024 Supporter
Learn sumpin' noo evvy day, lol (6:00 PM)
that's what I thought. Modern calendar discrepancies aside, we have to be right there on the cusp of it give or take a little.
So we'd also be on the eve/morn of the 3rd day since Yeshua was put to death...when He rose up in Victory, to conquer death!
Things are going to get very exciting here on earth real soon I bet.
How significant do you think this fact is, for the believer? I sense a significance to it, but can't put my finger on it....
Jim Parker
Member
Ellen G. White was the founder of the 7th Day Adventist Church.
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Jehovah's Witnesses is a spin-off from the SDA.
There are a group of commandments that teach exactly what the Sabbath was about. None of them had anything to do with going to Church. They all had to do with resting on the Sabbath; doing no work. The Jew was not to do any work, or his servants, of his animals. (See below)
The during the Babylonian exile, since the Babylonians has destroyed Solomon's temple and deported the Jews to Babylon, there could be no temple worship. In order not to loose their religion and connection to God, the Jews established synagogues in which the scriptures would be read and expounded by a teacher. (Rabbi) It is in this period that the "Scribes" (experts in the Law of Moses) arose as a recognized profession. Since the Jews are forbidden to work on the Sabbath, ()that's how to keep it "holy") that was the only day they were free to go to their Synagogues. That tradition continues to this day. (Still no temple!)
When they returned to Judah and built a new temple, they continued the synagogue worship on the Sabbath. Synagogues would be built in the towns and villages and positioned so that they would be within a mile of anyone's home so that the Jews wouldn't have to walk more than a mile on the Sabbath because that would be considered work.
The festivals were also called Sabbaths and Jews were forbidden to work on those days. Instead, they were commanded to party! (Celebrate God's blessings)
The first Christians were all Jews and they continued to go to the synagogues on the Sabbath but they also began meeting early on Sunday, the first day of the week, the day on which Jesus rode from the grave, to celebrate His victory over death, hell, and the grave, to read the scriptures (Old Testament - the NT hadn't been written yet) and for the Eucharist.
That is why Christians still meet on Sunday. It is "Resurrection Day." (in Russian the name of the day is "Boskreschenia", which means "resurrection day.") It was also referred to as "The Lord's Day." ("Domingo", in Spanish contains the word for "Lord.")
[[ Note: The SDAs have a tendency to conflate "The Lord's Day (resurrection day) with "The Day of the Lord" (judgment day.) ]]
The Sabbath Commands (You will notice that there is nothing about going to any kind of religious service.)
EX 16:29-30 Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.
EX 20:8-10 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.
EX 31:14-17 " `Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.' "
Note: Besides being a day of rest, the Sabbath is also a sign between God and Israel.
EX 35:1-3 Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, "These are the things the LORD has commanded you to do: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day."
LEV 23:3 " `There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD.
DT 5:12-14 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do.
This was a bit of a tangent from your main topic but one that I thought might be worthwhile.
Iakov the fool
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Jim Parker
Member
The Law was given to Jews living in the Middle East and much closer to the equator. The Eskimos were never converted to Judaism.
iakov the fool
J
jocor
Guest
"noo" or "false"? Sabbath starts and ends at sundown, not 6:00 PM.
J
jocor
Guest
Concerning the words I put in red, a "sacred assembly" or as the KJV puts it, a "holy convocation", is a religious service/gathering to worship YHWH.
MrWGW
Member
The Law was given to Jews living in the Middle East and much closer to the equator. The Eskimos were never converted to Judaism.
iakov the fool
This takes us into the interesting realm of Liturgical Hours. Vespers is nominalky pegged to sunset, but is in fact usually reckoned as the eleventh or twelfth hour (11th in the Coptic Rite, 12th I think in the Byzantine; the 12th in the Coptic Rite is Compline); so one could hypothetically time it as five or six hours from noon, that is, the sixth hour.
Now that all being said monasteries and other places where the Hours are served often tend to use alternate schedules. So for example, consider an Athonite-influenced schedule with abbreviations; no prime, terce and sext immediately before liturgy (starting at 12:30 AM), vespers immediately following the ninth hour (3:30 PM), Compline immediately following dinner.
So one problem with a rigorist approach to sabbath keeping as far as Christian praxis is concerned is that one must also have a rigorist approach to time keeping which is a bit foreign given the degree to which, in the ancient praxis of the church, the canonical hours can be anticipated.
J
jocor
Guest
So what do Jews living in Alaska or far from the equator do? I believe Yahweh would honor any method you chose to use in order to keep the Sabbath holy whether it be using 6:00PM, the suns lowest point, the sunset time that the closest city has for sunset, etc. Yahweh knows one's heart and is not going to hold one guilty if there is no sunset to mark time. However, the one who says "there is no Sabbath, do as you please," will be held accountable.The Law was given to Jews living in the Middle East and much closer to the equator. The Eskimos were never converted to Judaism.
iakov the fool
Jim Parker
Member
The "religious services" by which the Jews worshiped God, according to the Law of Moses went on every day including the Sabbath. Sacrifices were offered at the Tabernacle and, later, at the temple. Those are the only "religious services" the Jews had.
The "holy convocations" were the seven feasts of the Jews: Unleavened Bread, First fruits, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles, Weeks(Pentecost), and, of course, Passover. Of these, Weeks (Pentecost), Tabernacles and Passover were required to be celebrated in Jerusalem. These were celebrations or festivals which included offerings were made at the Tabernacle/temple. A festival is a celebration.
Every Sabbath was not a feast and no "holy Convocation" was required on them. The Jews were to rest.
iakov the fool
J
jocor
Guest
The Sabbath was used as the test commandment in Exodus 16 to see if Israel would obey or not. IMHO, nothing has changed. It is still the test commandment of obedience.
Throughout Israel's wilderness journey, Yahweh dwelt between the cherubim on the mercy seat. He sat upon the laws that governed His Kingdom (the Ten Words that were inside the ark. That ark was made after the pattern in heaven. Yahweh's throne in heaven is the heavenly ark. He sits upon the mercy seat in heaven and upon His laws, the Ten Words. One can figuratively alter the 4th commandment to read "1st day" or "8th day" or totally abolish it altogether, but that won't change what is in heaven and what will govern the Millennial Kingdom. From one Sabbath to another will all flesh worship before Yahweh (Isa 66:23).
Throughout Israel's wilderness journey, Yahweh dwelt between the cherubim on the mercy seat. He sat upon the laws that governed His Kingdom (the Ten Words that were inside the ark. That ark was made after the pattern in heaven. Yahweh's throne in heaven is the heavenly ark. He sits upon the mercy seat in heaven and upon His laws, the Ten Words. One can figuratively alter the 4th commandment to read "1st day" or "8th day" or totally abolish it altogether, but that won't change what is in heaven and what will govern the Millennial Kingdom. From one Sabbath to another will all flesh worship before Yahweh (Isa 66:23).
J
jocor
Guest
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation (miqra); ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of YHWH in all your dwellings.
miqrâ'
BDB Definition:
1) convocation, convoking, reading, a calling together
1a) convocation, sacred assembly
1b) convoking
1c) reading
Strong's Definition:
From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the place); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.
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Jim Parker
Member
The entire Law of Moses was a test designed to lead people to Christ. It was a "test" with a built in "trick": no one could ever pass it.
iakov the fool