romans 9 study

[Prince]

Thats like ocean side property in Utah .

Never been there but im going to Utah to go fishing some time this year hopefully.

 

[childeye]

I think that this is what Paul thought of himself.. and said plainly that there was nothing good in his flesh, and that he fought with it to put off this body of death...

Do you think that you're good ? I'm asking a serious question because your comments here imply that you see yourself above that... it reminds me of the man who prayed and thanked God that he wasn't like the others..

Sounds harsh perhaps but I'm just trying to be 'real' here..

It doesn't sound harsh.In fact I thank you for your forthrightness. Do I think I'm good? Let's see. I've already said we are all the same being made from the same lump of clay. Does that make me better than those who think they are better than others? Semantics now come into play which can only confound the conversation. I think God alone is good, which in fact may make me good. But if I answer that I think I'm bad, wouldn't that make me regard any man who thinks he's good, as bad. But that would be bad to judge others as bad. One must behold both objective and subjective views together at once to reveal hypocrisy. Consider: Love your neighbor as you love yourself; both objective and subjective views held together at once.

Regarding repentance:
Romans 5:5-6, And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans
Acts 11:16-18,Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Romans 2:4,Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
John 6:44-45, No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
1 Corinthians 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

We are not robots but vessels and clay in the potter's hands. The spirit in those vessels makes them either children of God or not. My life experience shows me that men are ruled by higher powers either of light or dark. The blind and the seeing are according to God's revelation by grace, therefore I believe in the freewill described in John:32.

 

[Eventide]

I think God alone is good, which in fact may make me good.

How so..?

 

[childeye]

How so..?

Matthew 19:17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

How does it make me good to believe this?

Matthew 5:16, Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[Eventide]

Matthew 19:17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

I know that. I was asking how you support your statement that your believing that God alone is good in fact makes YOU good ?

 

[childeye]

I know that. I was asking how you support your statement that your believing that God alone is good in fact makes YOU good ?

It makes me good in that I glorify God and not myself.

 

[Eventide]

How does it make me good to believe this?

Matthew 5:16, Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

So are the good works which you do the result of your old man or your Adamic nature or are they the result of Christ in you ?

IOW, I don't see how that this makes YOU good.. for a couple simple reasons..

1. Because then God's word would not be true.. that there are none good but one.. now it would be God is good AND YOU are good..

2. Isn't it Christ in you which is good, iow, it's not you that is good. It's Christ in you that is good..

Aren't you called to put off your old man who is corrupt according to deceitful lusts and to put on the Lord Jesus Christ..?

 

[Eventide]

It makes me good in that I glorify God and not myself.

So now God's word isn't true.. because now isn't it God is good AND you are good ?

 

[childeye]

So are the good works which you do the result of your old man or your Adamic nature or are they the result of Christ in you ?

IOW, I don't see how that this makes YOU good.. for a couple simple reasons..

1. Because then God's word would not be true.. that there are none good but one.. now it would would be God is good AND YOU are good..

2. Isn't it Christ in you which is good, iow, it's not you that is good. It's Christ in you that is good..

Aren't you called to put off your old man who is corrupt according to deceitful lusts and to put on the Lord Jesus Christ..?

Yes it is Christ that makes me good and it is good that I acknowledge that. This is why I mentioned semantics. We actually agree.

 

[Eventide]

Yes it is Christ that makes me good and it is good that I acknowledge that. This is why I mentioned semantics. We actually agree.

I don't think so.. and evidently you do see yourself above those you described in your original note that I responded to.. as if you're any less condemned in your flesh than they are..

And so now it's God is good and childeye is good..

 

[childeye]

I don't think so.. and evidently you do see yourself above those you described in your original note that I responded to.. as if you're any less condemned in your flesh than they are..

And so now it's God is good and childeye is good..

We're arguing semantics. I personally have not condemned anybody, nor is there now any condemnation in Christ. The law already condemned us all. Have I said something that in your eyes appears condescending to others?

 

[Eventide]

We're arguing semantics. I personally have not condemned anybody, nor is there now any condemnation in Christ. The law already condemned us all. Have I said something that in your eyes appears condescending to others?

No we're not arguing semantics..

You're telling me that YOU are good.. so now we have the word of God not being true, because it's not that God alone is good.. now we have God is good and childeye is good.

And if you're condemned in the flesh, as we all are, then what makes you any better than the people you originally described and who you evidently believe are not as 'good' as you are..

 

[childeye]

No we're not arguing semantics..

You're telling me that YOU are good.. so now we have the word of God not being true, because it's not that God alone is good.. now we have God is good and childeye is good.

And if you're condemned in the flesh, as we all are, then what makes you any better than the people you originally described and who you evidently believe are not as 'good' as you are..

All right, you've got me, you win. I'm bad because I believe only God is good. Is that what you want to hear?

 

[Eventide]

You might as well believe that God unconditionally choose YOU.. as if He did in the first place.. but I understand that this is exactly what multitudes of young Christians are being taught today.. that God unconditionally chose THEM..

 

[Eventide]

All right, you've got me, you win. I'm bad because I believe only God is good. Is that what you want to hear?

Is the word of God true or not.. are there none good but one, and that is God.. or is it you and God now..

Seriously.. I'm wondering how you reckon yourself good when the word of God says that there are none good but one, and that there are none righteous... no not even one..

Evidently you must not believe that.. right ?

 

[childeye]

Is the word of God true or not.. are there none good but one, and that is God.. or is it you and God now..

Seriously.. I'm wondering how you reckon yourself good when the word of God says that there are none good but one, and that there are none righteous... no not even one..

Evidently you must not believe that.. right ?

I've already said we are all condemned as bad under the law. Now I've said I'm bad for you and this does not please you either? How is it we're not arguing semantics if no matter which way I say it, it does not reconcile us?

 

[Pizzaguy]

Is the word of God true or not.. are there none good but one, and that is God.. or is it you and God now..

Seriously.. I'm wondering how you reckon yourself good when the word of God says that there are none good but one, and that there are none righteous... no not even one..

Evidently you must not believe that.. right ?

Eventide is right here. The bible is clear on this one, and it's not just one verse, either, it's a major theme in the bible, both OT and NT.

I don't THINK he's beating you up, I think he's trying to get you to see the truth.

I know I"m not good. I'm a mess, even on my best day, during my best prayer, while doing my best work ---- I'm a shame to God. It's only His love and grace that gives me any hope.

Not saying that I don't try...

 

[Eventide]

Eventide is right here. The bible is clear on this one, and it's not just one verse, either, it's a major theme in the bible, both OT and NT.

I don't THINK he's beating you up, I think he's trying to get you to see the truth.

I know I"m not good. I'm a mess, even on my best day, during my best prayer, while doing my best work ---- I'm a shame to God. It's only His love and grace that gives me any hope.

Not saying that I don't try...

I hear you PG.. and it makes me wonder if people actually do believe the word of God.. or can't see from life experiences and from that true light that is in us.. that we're not good.

I believe God.. He alone is good.

 

[childeye]

Eventide is right here. The bible is clear on this one, and it's not just one verse, either, it's a major theme in the bible, both OT and NT.

I don't THINK he's beating you up, I think he's trying to get you to see the truth.

I know I"m not good. I'm a mess, even on my best day, during my best prayer, while doing my best work ---- I'm a shame to God. It's only His love and grace that gives me any hope.

Not saying that I don't try...

I see the same Truth as you guys do. You just can't seem to understand that I'm saying the children of God have God's Spirit living in them and that makes them good.

 

[Eventide]

I've already said we are all condemned as bad under the law. Now I've said I'm bad for you and this does not please you either? How is it we're not arguing semantics if no matter which way I say it, it does not reconcile us?

IT doesn't hold much weight to say that you're bad after you've told me that you're good.. unless of course you actually believe that you're bad... who knows, you're talking out both sides of your mouth here.