romans 9 study

[Prince]

I see the same Truth as you guys do. You just can't seem to understand that I'm saying the children of God have God's Spirit living in them and that makes them good.

I understand what you are saying and the debate is a mute one...

Being good is relative, none of us are good in comparision God, thats a no brainer..


Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Now is God talking about trees or is God talking about men producing????

Matt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.

So at the end of the day friend,, you will be known by your fruits if your producing good fruit then you are good, just not in comparison to the Almighty...Peace

 

[childeye]

I understand what you are saying and the debate is a mute one...

Being good is relative, none of us are good in comparision God, thats a no brainer..


Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Now is God talking about trees or is God talking about men producing????

Matt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.

So at the end of the day friend,, you will be known by your fruits if your producing good fruit then you are good, just not in comparison to the Almighty...Peace

I don't think I am good of myself, but through the Power of the Holy Spirit. This is good to give the glory to God, hence it is bad to take credit for God's attributes, i.e. Godly Love. This argument between eventide and myself is silly, based on misunderstanding of terminology and so we end up arguing semantics. Alas we are even arguing whether or not we're arguing semantics.

 

[Eventide]

You must be assuming that I think I am one that is chosen as a vessel that will eventually be one of those holy people. That is my hope, but it remains to be seen.

Do you mean that you hope that you're one of the unconditionaly elected (chosen) ones.. who had no choice ?

 

[Prince]

Do you mean that you hope that you're one of the unconditionaly elected (chosen) ones.. who had no choice ?

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

What you fail to realize is that God is not a repsector of persons in the first earth age God choose peopele do you have a problem with God calling some and chosing others?

King James Bible
Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

Those that were chosen were chose to do a job, God has a plan for each person, but for the chosen there job is to basically spread the word, you bear all the marks of a true hater, someone who will try and discredit a person because God chose them and not you.

 

[childeye]

Do you mean that you hope that you're one of the unconditionaly elected (chosen) ones.. who had no choice ?

1 Timothy 2:1-6 (King James Version)


1 Timothy 2


1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[Eventide]

1 Timothy 2:1-6 (King James Version)


1 Timothy 2


1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

So is this a yes or a no for your being the 'unconditional elect' who had no choice..?

 

[Prince]

So is this a yes or a no for your being the 'unconditional elect' who had no choice..?

Did Jeremiah have a choice in whether he would be a prophet or not

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

 

[RoadDebris]

For the record: being chosen rocks!

 

[Eventide]

For the record: being chosen rocks!

It must, knowing that the Lord Jesus Christ is the chosen one in whom He delights..

 

[childeye]

So is this a yes or a no for your being the 'unconditional elect' who had no choice..?

No one really knows if they're the elect, Eventide, in my opinion. I believe in the promise which i do not think is wrong. The meek inherit the Earth. I believe I have the Holy Spirit, and it is this Spirit that says to take the last place at the table, to be a servant to all. God may very well be playing the hypocrisy of the Spirit of Satan against himself. I hope you understand what I mean by that.

 

[Prince]

For the record: being chosen rocks!

I agree..

 

[RoadDebris]

It must, knowing that the Lord Jesus Christ is the chosen one in whom He delights..

Is that honest to twist what I said like that? I mean, I understand that that is your belief, and you have a God-given right to it, but certainly you understand as well that that is not even close to what I was saying, right?

 

[Prince]

No one really knows if they're the elect, Eventide, in my opinion. The meek inherit the Earth. I believe I have the Holy Spirit, and it is this Spirit that says to take the last place at the table. God may very well be playing the hypocrisy of the Spirit of Satan against himself. I hope you understand what I mean by that.

No one really knows if they're the elect

I disagree, Im sure some people know and im sure there are others who dont know yet, they will in time.

We can debate and talk and post all we want, but time proves all things, and the elect (in our generation) are here to stand against satan/antichrist.

regardless of what of Eventide says the bible gives us a clear picture of the elect.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

The elect will not take the mark of the beast they will not bow and those that are living when Christ returns will reign with him 1,000 years (1 day)

Now everyone else even the christians who think theyre serving the Lord will have to wait until the 1,000 years are up to be immortal.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

 

[childeye]

I disagree, Im sure some people know and im sure there are others who dont know yet, they will in time.

We can debate and talk and post all we want, but time proves all things, and the elect (in our generation) are here to stand against satan/antichrist.

regardless of what of Eventide says the bible gives us a clear picture of the elect.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

The elect will not take the mark of the beast they will not bow and those that are living when Christ returns will reign with him 1,000 years (1 day)

Now everyone else even the christians who think theyre serving the Lord will have to wait until the 1,000 years are up to be immortal.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

All is built upon faith, hope, Love. If I knew I was saved, in what do I hope for? I like hoping. Even Peter denied the Christ, I do not wish to presume anything. Read where Jesus seperates the sheep from the goats, which was it that were surprised they were not saved? which was it that were surprised they were saved? I agree with you about those concerning the mark.

 

[Eventide]

Is that honest to twist what I said like that? I mean, I understand that that is your belief, and you have a God-given right to it, but certainly you understand as well that that is not even close to what I was saying, right?

It's a scriptural fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is the chosen one in whom He delights.. and I understand that Calvinists typically speak about themselves being chosen.. and you're right that what I was saying isn't even close to what you were saying.. maybe it's just semantics.. lol

 

[Eventide]

No one really knows if they're the elect, Eventide, in my opinion. I believe in the promise which i do not think is wrong. The meek inherit the Earth. I believe I have the Holy Spirit, and it is this Spirit that says to take the last place at the table, to be a servant to all. God may very well be playing the hypocrisy of the Spirit of Satan against himself. I hope you understand what I mean by that.

If you're in Christ then you're the elect.. because you're a member of HIS BODY, and He is the elect.. the chosen one in whom the Father delights. So I would disagree that we can't know because we should know if we're in Christ or not.

Although if you're basing this upon your belief that God unconditionally elected you, then perhaps you don't know.. because you wouldn't know the basis of His choosing you.. right ?

 

[childeye]

If you're in Christ then you're the elect.. because you're a member of HIS BODY, and He is the elect.. the chosen one in whom the Father delights. So I would disagree that we can't know because we should know if we're in Christ or not.

Although if you're basing this upon your belief that God unconditionally elected you, then perhaps you don't know.. because you wouldn't know the basis of His choosing you.. right ?

I'm basing this on my honesty and my humility. God's election is precisely that, His election. Many are called but few are chosen. I have answered the call, but I am still running the race. What Calvinists mean by unconditional election, I presume, is that only God can give sight to the blind. If that is what they mean, I concur. Why the vitriol against the Calvinists?

 

[savedbygrace57]

prince:

Did Jeremiah have a choice in whether he would be a prophet or not

No He did not, neither did he have a choice if he would be a believer, neither does any True believer.

 

[Eventide]

What Calvinists mean by unconditional election, I presume, is that only God can give sight to the blind. If that is what they mean, I concur.

Well, that isn't what Calvinists mean concerning unconditional election.. it means that God CHOSE YOU for absolutely no reason at all...

Now the bible says plainly that God chose us in Christ (one condition) through belief of the truth (another condition) and sanctification of the Spirit..

So do you think God chose you unconditionally, as Calvinism claims, or conditionally as the scriptures declare ?

 

[RoadDebris]

The elect, the saved, know because of how we live our lives. That's the point of the book of James. Our works are proof of our salvation.