Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

[Jethro Bodine]

Correct.

Born again people sin because they still have the flesh that has yet to be redeemed. Born again people are progressively learning to walk more and more by faith in the truth that the flesh no longer has the power of the law to force them to do what it tempts them to do. In your theology it is not even necessary to be educated about what is sin and what is not, yet the Bible is rife with instructions for born again people on how to live.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

James 2:14
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Faith that does not produce works is in the end, no faith. That's why it can't save. Not because works make you a saved person, but because dead faith can't produce the evidence of love for and faith in God by which Jesus will judge you as being a sheep and not a goat (Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 4:17).

 

[Deidr]

God's seed cannot bring forth liars, thieves, murderers, or adulterers. (1 John 3:9)
You are bordering on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Servants of sin can't serve two masters.
They will hold to the one and despise the other. (Matt 6:24)
Sinners despise God.

They were already those things..but they were washed..etc

God's seed cannot bring forth liars, thieves, murderers, or adulterers. (1 John 3:9)
You are bordering on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Servants of sin can't serve two masters.
They will hold to the one and despise the other. (Matt 6:24)
Sinners despise God.

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

So these things they already have in them. Yet when given the Spirit they have a choice to obey.
And so when they obey the Spirit while it won't bring forth thieves and such they still carry around the habits of their old nature. But with the new nature comes a different responsibility holiness. God has called them to holiness by giving of His Spirit.

 

[Deidr]

Faith that does not produce works is in the end, no faith. That's why it can't save. Not because works make you a saved person, but because dead faith can't produce the evidence of love for and faith in God by which Jesus will judge you as being a sheep and not a goat (Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 4:17).

That's good.
I think Jesus showed faith was action- moving in what you say you believe..

In my personal opinion I believe God could be the force. And we meet God in His actions when we like a Power Ranger activate.

 

[RBDERRICK]

And the verse from the epistle of James that you quoted? Does it help your case any?

The problem with this kind of reasoning is that it's not about anyone else's case but that of Jesus Christ and His apostles, who personally recieved His faith, doctrine, and gospel to write in Scripture. Paul goes so far as to say it's his gospel (Rom 2:16)

That's the only gospel and case anyone needs be concerned with to believe and please the only true God, if we believe He is the God of Scripture.

Since that gospel declares faith without works is dead, and can save no man, then any preaching of a gospel by faith without works is not the gospel that Paul and James preached, but is the faith of another gospel.

That's why there is no profit in arguing about the faith without works gospel, anymore than there is in arguing about the faith of Mohammed, Buddha, Zoroaster, New Age, etc... It's an endless non-starter. A dead end argument.

I don't argue against other faiths in the world and their declared salvations and justifications, but only argue for the faith of Jesus, that is plainly written in the words of the NT.

The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Preaching a faith other than that written in the Bible only brings in contention. It's enough to learn and discern the whole truth of the Bible, without also having to endure teaching that contradicts the words of Scripture. That's why there is so much contention around the gospel of faith without works, while the Bible says it's dead.

I no longer join in that endless contentiousness, but only show how it cannot possibly be the faith of Jesus, if we believe all His words of the NT. SOme say they believe the words, but then try to change their meaning to fit another teaching of another faith.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The faith without works teachers do not apply themselves to learn how to reconcile Paul and James, but rather choose to wrest Paul into something he never says, and try to change James into saying something else plainly written.

There is no teaching in the Bible where faith without works, faith alone, and faith only, is ever anything other than dead, does not save, and justifies no one. Faith alone without works is the faith of another gospel only.

There are groups that do agree with the truth of faith without works is dead, and do preach faith with works for salvation and justification, and yet they still preach another faith and gospel by not believing Jesus Christ is the Son and true God.

Both gospels are made of the same kind of unbelief, where one rejects the truth that faith without works is dead, and the other, that Jesus Christ is both Lord and God.

And so, for them that do believe all words of the Bible are true, then there is no argument about whether faith without works is dead, even as whether Jesus is the true God or not, but only how.

 

[RBDERRICK]

And the verse from the epistle of James that you quoted? Does it help your case any?

And so, how faith without works is dead, it's own topic.

In the doctrine of Christ we see how faith alone without works is dead: There's nothing of substance to it, other than thought and imagination. Saying we love, without loving, is not love. Likewise saying we believe without doing, is not faith.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Much of Scripture really is just the common sense of life, that God gives to any man liberally, if they would be wise and do well and be blessed.

Another reason why faith without works is a dead end of unbelief, is because we now know the word of truth to do, but are not doing it. So that faith without doing the word becomes sin to us:

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

By claiming faith, we are saying we now know what to do. By not doing the faith at any time, we are now become sinners more than the ignorant of the world.

And so the gospel of faith without works, is both unbelief in all God's words, as well as sinful in His sight.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

And so we see in the doctrine of Christ, neither the ignorant nor the non-doers are justified, but only them hearing and doing the word by faith are a justified member of Jesus' family:

And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Once again, it's impossible to be a member of Jesus' body and church on earth, without doing His will. Faith without works by definition is not doing His will.

Claiming faith without doing it, is hearing only. The gospel of faith without works is made by and for hearers only.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

It's manifestly impossible to teach faith without works, and also believe all the words of Jesus' NT gospel.

But that obviously does not prevent people from preaching something other than Jesus' faith for a gospel of their own choosing. There's the other gospel of faith alone without works, that does say Jesus is God, and another gospel of a created christ, that does say faith is always with works.

 

[RBDERRICK]

More on how faith without works is dead:

Faith without works is impossible, because it is impossible for anyone on earth to be doing nothing. It's impossible to not be doing works, whether good or evil.

We understand this by the faith of Jesus, who says even our thoughts are judged as works in His sight:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The same is for vain imaginations, that are judged as idolatry.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

The works of our spirit within us are the first works Jesus wants the Ephesians to return to.

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

They were becoming faithfully righteous Christians by works alone, which Paul rebukes as doing works of the law without faith from the heart.

Our first works in Christ by faith, is to keep our first love of God with all the heart.

We must as necessary be first cleansing within the platter and cup, even as Jesus condemned the Pharisees of old for not doing.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Jesus teaches that by faith we must repent of not doing works. Faith without works therefore must be repented of, because we are not doing what we ought be doing to love Jesus with a whole heart.

If we are doing nothing, then we are not fighting the good fight of the Spirit, to resist the lust and thoughts of devil.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Once again, faith without works by definition is not doing our part with power of God, to keep our heart, mind, and spirit clean for Jesus' sake. This is why faith alone teachers say we have no part in our faith, nor works added to faith.

Jesus' faith says He forgives the past and washes us clean as newborn babes, and we must immediately begin the good work of faith, by resisting the thoughts of temptation, that the devil immediately begins to attack our faith.

Faith without works is that which is immediately taken away by Satan, because such faith does not do what is necessary to resist temptation. (Mark 4:15) ( James 4:7-8) Satan is a spirit who can only be resisted spiritually, which is within the soul.

The gospel of faith alone is for wayside hearers only.

Faith without works therefore is faith without repentance within our spirit, which is one of the first principles of His doctrine and gospel.

And so once again, the faith without works doctrine is unbelief in all the words of the Bible. They do not believe the truth of the spirit of man, that our thoughts and intents of heart are works judged by God as good or evil.

To teach faith without works is to disbelieve the truth of the spiritual man, and so is also the gospel for the carnal minded natural man.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And so, how faith without works is dead, it's own topic.

In the doctrine of Christ we see how faith alone without works is dead: There's nothing of substance to it, other than thought and imagination. Saying we love, without loving, is not love. Likewise saying we believe without doing, is not faith.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Much of Scripture really is just the common sense of life, that God gives to any man liberally, if they would be wise and do well and be blessed.

Another reason why faith without works is a dead end of unbelief, is because we now know the word of truth to do, but are not doing it. So that faith without doing the word becomes sin to us:

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

By claiming faith, we are saying we now know what to do. By not doing the faith at any time, we are now become sinners more than the ignorant of the world.

And so the gospel of faith without works, is both unbelief in all God's words, as well as sinful in His sight.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

And so we see in the doctrine of Christ, neither the ignorant nor the non-doers are justified, but only them hearing and doing the word by faith are a justified member of Jesus' family:

And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Once again, it's impossible to be a member of Jesus' body and church on earth, without doing His will. Faith without works by definition is not doing His will.

Claiming faith without doing it, is hearing only. The gospel of faith without works is made by and for hearers only.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

It's manifestly impossible to teach faith without works, and also believe all the words of Jesus' NT gospel.

But that obviously does not prevent people from preaching something other than Jesus' faith for a gospel of their own choosing. There's the other gospel of faith alone without works, that does say Jesus is God, and another gospel of a created christ, that does say faith is always with works.

You simply don't know what "righteousness apart from works" means (Romans 4:6).

It does not mean faith does nothing. It means you do not do righteous works to be absolved of sin and made right with God because it is impossible to behave righteously enough to be righteous enough to enter the kingdom of God.

The only righteousness that will get you into the kingdom of God is God's righteousness imputed to you as a free gift of his grace when you have faith in and receive God's promise of forgiveness of sin through Christ. Philippians 3:9, Romans 3:21-22.

Your righteous work is not what gets you into heaven. HIS righteousness, received through faith is what makes you righteous and, therefore, qualified to enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Tenchi]

The problem with this kind of reasoning is that it's not about anyone else's case but that of Jesus Christ and His apostles, who personally recieved His faith, doctrine, and gospel to write in Scripture. Paul goes so far as to say it's his gospel (Rom 2:16)

That's the only gospel and case anyone needs be concerned with to believe and please the only true God, if we believe He is the God of Scripture.

I'm unable to tell if you're being willfully obtuse here, or not.

Your "case" are your views, your particular interpretations of Scripture, that, as you've been shown, don't properly align with Scripture but twist, distort and add to what it says. It is not enough to baldly claim your views are perfectly aligned with God's word and cite Scripture proof-texts that you assume establish that it is so - especially when it has been shown that you are actually badly misaligned with the Bible. No, you're going to have to successfully rebut the criticisms leveled at your "case" which you haven't done. Instead, you just repeat yourself, convinced that what you've assumed is true is as self-evident to others as it is to you. Well, it's very much not - for the many reasons brought up in this thread.

Since that gospel declares faith without works is dead, and can save no man, then any preaching of a gospel by faith without works is not the gospel that Paul and James preached, but is the faith of another gospel.

That's why there is no profit in arguing about the faith without works gospel, anymore than there is in arguing about the faith of Mohammed, Buddha, Zoroaster, New Age, etc... It's an endless non-starter. A dead end argument.

I don't argue against other faiths in the world and their declared salvations and justifications, but only argue for the faith of Jesus, that is plainly written in the words of the NT.

The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Preaching a faith other than that written in the Bible only brings in contention. It's enough to learn and discern the whole truth of the Bible, without also having to endure teaching that contradicts the words of Scripture. That's why there is so much contention around the gospel of faith without works, while the Bible says it's dead.

I no longer join in that endless contentiousness, but only show how it cannot possibly be the faith of Jesus, if we believe all His words of the NT. SOme say they believe the words, but then try to change their meaning to fit another teaching of another faith.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The faith without works teachers do not apply themselves to learn how to reconcile Paul and James, but rather choose to wrest Paul into something he never says, and try to change James into saying something else plainly written.

There is no teaching in the Bible where faith without works, faith alone, and faith only, is ever anything other than dead, does not save, and justifies no one. Faith alone without works is the faith of another gospel only.

There are groups that do agree with the truth of faith without works is dead, and do preach faith with works for salvation and justification, and yet they still preach another faith and gospel by not believing Jesus Christ is the Son and true God.

Both gospels are made of the same kind of unbelief, where one rejects the truth that faith without works is dead, and the other, that Jesus Christ is both Lord and God.

And so, for them that do believe all words of the Bible are true, then there is no argument about whether faith without works is dead, even as whether Jesus is the true God or not, but only how.

None of this addresses anything I've pointed out in rebuttal of your views. It's just off-point rambling.

 

[Tenchi]

More on how faith without works is dead:

Faith without works is impossible, because it is impossible for anyone on earth to be doing nothing. It's impossible to not be doing works, whether good or evil.

We understand this by the faith of Jesus, who says even our thoughts are judged as works in His sight:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The same is for vain imaginations, that are judged as idolatry.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

The works of our spirit within us are the first works Jesus wants the Ephesians to return to.

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

They were becoming faithfully righteous Christians by works alone, which Paul rebukes as doing works of the law without faith from the heart.

Our first works in Christ by faith, is to keep our first love of God with all the heart.

We must as necessary be first cleansing within the platter and cup, even as Jesus condemned the Pharisees of old for not doing.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Jesus teaches that by faith we must repent of not doing works. Faith without works therefore must be repented of, because we are not doing what we ought be doing to love Jesus with a whole heart.

If we are doing nothing, then we are not fighting the good fight of the Spirit, to resist the lust and thoughts of devil.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Once again, faith without works by definition is not doing our part with power of God, to keep our heart, mind, and spirit clean for Jesus' sake. This is why faith alone teachers say we have no part in our faith, nor works added to faith.

Jesus' faith says He forgives the past and washes us clean as newborn babes, and we must immediately begin the good work of faith, by resisting the thoughts of temptation, that the devil immediately begins to attack our faith.

Faith without works is that which is immediately taken away by Satan, because such faith does not do what is necessary to resist temptation. (Mark 4:15) ( James 4:7-8) Satan is a spirit who can only be resisted spiritually, which is within the soul.

The gospel of faith alone is for wayside hearers only.

Faith without works therefore is faith without repentance within our spirit, which is one of the first principles of His doctrine and gospel.

And so once again, the faith without works doctrine is unbelief in all the words of the Bible. They do not believe the truth of the spirit of man, that our thoughts and intents of heart are works judged by God as good or evil.

To teach faith without works is to disbelieve the truth of the spiritual man, and so is also the gospel for the carnal minded natural man.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

All this, too, ignores what I've pointed out to you, rambling instead along lines that just rehearse things that you've already said that have been repeatedly and scripturally rebutted.

If you just wanted everyone to accept and applaud your faulty ideas, you should have said so at the beginning of your remarks so we'd all have known to ignore you. I assumed, having posted in the Theology subforum, that you wanted to test and analyze your ideas and improve them, if necessary. It turns out you have no interest in refining and better aligning your notions about Scripture with it, but just wanted to proselytize, to soapbox. This isn't the soapbox forum, though.

 

[RBDERRICK]

James encouraged his "brethren" in the faith to be joyful and enduring in the face of the testing of their faith so that they might enjoy the "perfect result" of such testing and "lack nothing."

True. Which is why Peter confirms we must add to our faith the works of virtue, godliness, and charity and do them, in order not to be fruitless and blind.

Until doing the works of faith, the faith is blind and fruitless and not of God.

The gospel of faith without doing preaches a faith with blind fruitlessness.

The faith we hear only becomes that of Jesus, when we first obey Him. Until then, it's our own dead faith alone.

The faith of Jesus is not only agreeing with His word, but doing it.

 

[7thMoon]

Am I the only one who thinks one state of salvation has nothing to do with the afterlife?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Am I the only one who thinks one state of salvation has nothing to do with the afterlife?

Until you explain what you mean, I'd say, "yes", you are the only one "who thinks one('s) state of salvation has nothing to do with the afterlife."

You must be justified to become saved. You must be saved to enter the kingdom of God in the next life.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

True. Which is why Peter confirms we must add to our faith the works of virtue, godliness, and charity and do them, in order not to be fruitless and blind.

Yes, we are to do them, but not for the purpose of being justified and absolved of sin guilt. That happens entirely on the basis of one's faith in the gospel message.

The gospel of faith without doing preaches a faith with blind fruitlessness.

No, the "gospel of faith without doing", as you put it, means a person is justified and made right with God through faith in the promise of forgiveness through His Son, Jesus Christ and the receiving of an imputation of His righteousness, apart from and without the righteousness of our works.

A person becomes righteous in God's sight by receiving a righteousness from God outside of himself by which he is then declared righteous and qualified to enter the kingdom of God. In no way can we produce the perfect righteousness God requires for one to enter into the kingdom of God. It can only be given to a person as a gracious gift, given to a person when they believe in and receive the gospel message of redemption through the forgiveness of sin in Christ.

 

[7thMoon]

Until you explain what you mean, I'd say, "yes", you are the only one "who thinks one('s) state of salvation has nothing to do with the afterlife."

You must be justified to become saved. You must be saved to enter the kingdom of God in the next life.

If I am in a burning home, and a fireman saves me; am I assured an afterlife. You are using the term salvation in a nonbiblical meaning. You must be woke from the dead to have the afterlife. Salvation has nothing to do with it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It's funny that in your theology the Bible educates and instructs born again people about God and the things they are to do that your theology says they will automatically do anyway, and will always do, no exceptions (or else they're not really born again).

Does reading the same thing you heard make it wrong?
The more we see and hear from God, the stronger we are.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, we are to do them, but not for the purpose of being justified and absolved of sin guilt. That happens entirely on the basis of one's faith in the gospel message.


No, the "gospel of faith without doing", as you put it, means a person is justified and made right with God through faith in the promise of forgiveness through His Son, Jesus Christ and the receiving of an imputation of His righteousness, apart from and without the righteousness of our works.

A person becomes righteous in God's sight by receiving a righteousness from God outside of himself by which he is then declared righteous and qualified to enter the kingdom of God. In no way can we produce the perfect righteousness God requires for one to enter into the kingdom of God. It can only be given to a person as a gracious gift, given to a person when they believe in and receive the gospel message of redemption through the forgiveness of sin in Christ.

...without our works "of the Law".

 

[Hopeful 2]

Born again people sin because they still have the flesh that has yet to be redeemed. Born again people are progressively learning to walk more and more by faith in the truth that the flesh no longer has the power of the law to force them to do what it tempts them to do. In your theology it is not even necessary to be educated about what is sin and what is not, yet the Bible is rife with instructions for born again people on how to live.

Born again people don't have "the flesh" anymore.
Rom 8:9..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Of course if the Spirit isn't dwelling in somebody...your POV is true.

 

[Hopeful 2]

They were already those things..but they were washed..etc

Yes, washed and made new creatures, reborn of God's seed !

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
So these things they already have in them.

HAD, in their old selves.

Yet when given the Spirit they have a choice to obey.

We always had the choice, but now with a new nature, obedience is possible all the time.

And so when they obey the Spirit while it won't bring forth thieves and such they still carry around the habits of their old nature.

I disagree.
Old things are but a memory.

But with the new nature comes a different responsibility holiness. God has called them to holiness by giving of His Spirit.

A different ability.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The problem with this kind of reasoning is that it's not about anyone else's case but that of Jesus Christ and His apostles, who personally recieved His faith, doctrine, and gospel to write in Scripture. Paul goes so far as to say it's his gospel (Rom 2:16)

That's the only gospel and case anyone needs be concerned with to believe and please the only true God, if we believe He is the God of Scripture.

Since that gospel declares faith without works is dead, and can save no man, then any preaching of a gospel by faith without works is not the gospel that Paul and James preached, but is the faith of another gospel.

That's why there is no profit in arguing about the faith without works gospel, anymore than there is in arguing about the faith of Mohammed, Buddha, Zoroaster, New Age, etc... It's an endless non-starter. A dead end argument.

I don't argue against other faiths in the world and their declared salvations and justifications, but only argue for the faith of Jesus, that is plainly written in the words of the NT.

The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Preaching a faith other than that written in the Bible only brings in contention. It's enough to learn and discern the whole truth of the Bible, without also having to endure teaching that contradicts the words of Scripture. That's why there is so much contention around the gospel of faith without works, while the Bible says it's dead.

I no longer join in that endless contentiousness, but only show how it cannot possibly be the faith of Jesus, if we believe all His words of the NT. SOme say they believe the words, but then try to change their meaning to fit another teaching of another faith.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The faith without works teachers do not apply themselves to learn how to reconcile Paul and James, but rather choose to wrest Paul into something he never says, and try to change James into saying something else plainly written.

There is no teaching in the Bible where faith without works, faith alone, and faith only, is ever anything other than dead, does not save, and justifies no one. Faith alone without works is the faith of another gospel only.

There are groups that do agree with the truth of faith without works is dead, and do preach faith with works for salvation and justification, and yet they still preach another faith and gospel by not believing Jesus Christ is the Son and true God.

Both gospels are made of the same kind of unbelief, where one rejects the truth that faith without works is dead, and the other, that Jesus Christ is both Lord and God.

And so, for them that do believe all words of the Bible are true, then there is no argument about whether faith without works is dead, even as whether Jesus is the true God or not, but only how.

Good post.
The folks who are most confused on the subject can't, or won't, see that the works Paul writes of are those of the Law.
Circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, etc.
While the works James writes of are the actions of those saved by faith and its facets.