Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

[Hopeful 2]

I'm unable to tell if you're being willfully obtuse here, or not.

Your "case" are your views, your particular interpretations of Scripture, that, as you've been shown, don't properly align with Scripture but twist, distort and add to what it says. It is not enough to baldly claim your views are perfectly aligned with God's word and cite Scripture proof-texts that you assume establish that it is so - especially when it has been shown that you are actually badly misaligned with the Bible. No, you're going to have to successfully rebut the criticisms leveled at your "case" which you haven't done. Instead, you just repeat yourself, convinced that what you've assumed is true is as self-evident to others as it is to you. Well, it's very much not - for the many reasons brought up in this thread.

I love that word..."Proof-Texts".
Texts of proof !

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...without our works "of the Law".

The reason why works of the law do not make you righteous is how we know he is talking about ALL works. You do not get the righteousness of God that comes from God by doing righteous works. You get it by believing God's promise about a Son apart from and without works, the same way Abraham, our example of righteousness by faith, was made righteous with the righteousness that is from God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Born again people don't have "the flesh" anymore.

No, the desires of the flesh still speak. That's how we know it is not dead as you are saying it is dead. The end of it's AUTHORITY to make us sin by force of law is how it is dead. The flesh can only lie to us now and deceive us into thinking it still has power and authority over us to make us submit to it.

13But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. Hebrews 3:13

 

[Tenchi]

It's often struck me how...slippery some of the saved-by-works folk must become in countering the plain declaration of God's word that by the works of the law no one is justified before God. "It's only the Mosaic Law that Paul's talking about," they say. "There are other commands of God outside the Mosaic Law that MUST be obeyed if you want to be saved." However, in Scripture, salvation by grace through faith in Christ is set in contradistinction to salvation by ritual, self-effort and rule-keeping. Law-keeping is representative of a way of interacting with God that doesn't "work," and that is actually the opposite of the way God has made through Christ to enjoy fellowship with Himself.

The Law (Mosaic, or otherwise) is the Old Covenant means to pleasing and serving God, to be in His "good graces." Obey the rules of separation, and ceremony, and conduct that God had issued through Moses and you'd be all right with Him. But, as Scripture tells us, this was an impossible way to maintain good relations with God. Over and over again, Israel wandered from God into terrible sin. Keeping God's law successfully - which is to say, perfectly - God's own Chosen People had demonstrated for centuries was impossible. Read Psalm 78. As Paul explained, the Law that was good, served only to condemn rather than enable people to walk with God.

Romans 7:5-12
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.
9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;
11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

God's commands serve only to provoke Man's sinful inclinations. Holy, righteous and good as God's laws are, the sinful passions of human beings are aroused by His laws, not subdued by them. And "falling foul" of God's law brings us all under His condemnation, not into fellowship with Him. Here, though, it's important to take in what Paul is actually saying. All human beings, inside or outside of Israel, Jew or Gentile, are under divine condemnation. But if the Mosaic Law, given solely to Israel, is what Paul had in mind when he wrote of "the Law," how does it apply to Gentiles? How do they fall condemned under a system of law God never intended for them? Clearly, Paul had more in mind when he wrote of God's law than the laws of separation, ceremony and civil conduct given to Israel through Moses. Paul's notion of "the Law" encompassed commands of God beyond those given to Israel, commands that were strictly confined to the Mosaic system of laws. This is very evident in his letter to the Galatian believers who were mostly Gentiles.

Galatians 3:10-14
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."
11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"—
14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Why is no one - Jew or Gentile - justified by keeping God's commands (vs. 11)? Because we don't have it in ourselves to obey perfectly, as we must if rule-keeping is going to bring us into favorable relations with God. Paul explained this very well in Romans 7 (see above). God is perfect and accepts only perfection in our interactions with Him. But we are none of us perfect. Far from it (Romans 3:10, 23; Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3, etc.). We need another way to be reconciled to, and accepted by, our holy Maker, a way to be perfect that doesn't originate in us.

Galatians 3:21-25
21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Here, Paul indicated that keeping of the rules cannot "impart life." We are all "dead in trespasses and sins" and desperately need reviving, but the Law (representative of a particular fleshly, legalistic way of approaching God) is unable to impart to us the perfect life of Christ, which is what we need. Law-keeping can only condemn imperfect creatures. Instead, God has instituted righteousness by faith; He will justify us by way of our trust in Christ by which his perfect righteousness is then imputed to us. (1 Corinthians 1:2, 8-9, 30; Ephesians 1:1-13) Justified by faith, we are no longer under the "tutor," the death-dealing commands of God.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

Galatians 5:3-6
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

If you're going to approach God on the basis of justification by rule-keeping, you're going to have to be perfect in your rule-keeping, keeping all of God's commands, in thought, word and deed, all the time. God will accept nothing less. What's more, by taking up such a route to acceptance by God, one must leave off relating with Him on the basis of grace and the liberty from condemnation and legalism that standing by faith in the grace of God extended to all in Christ produces. The many spiritual benefits obtained by the born-again believer in Christ - chief of which is fellowship with God - are entirely halted ("cut off") so long as one tries to gain God's acceptance by keeping His commands.

Keeping the Law, then, is the impossible, condemning, Old Covenant, fleshly avenue to relating with God. Am I, then, espousing antinomianism? Not at all. Born-again believers are to fulfill the righteousness of the Law but as the by-product of being reconciled to God through Christ, not as the means of that reconciliation. Holiness is the fruit of fellowship with God, the result of being "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit and filled with him. Law and Grace, then, stand in sharp contrast to each other, representative of two approaches to God; the former impossible and defunct; the latter, the sole avenue to peace with God and joy in the Holy Spirit.

When, then, Paul wrote of "the Law," he was using it as symbolic, or representative, of a particular way of approaching God, the Old Covenant way, that the "new and living way" in Jesus Christ has done away with.

Hebrews 10:11-22
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”
17 then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,
20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,
21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

We all have access to the "holy place" by the blood of Jesus, not by our rule-keeping. Because of Christ's sacrifice, we have been forgiven by God of our sin and need never again make an animal blood-sacrifice for our sins. By our faith in Christ as our Savior and Lord, we stand before God "perfected" by Jesus "for all time." What need, then, of trying to be accepted by God in the basis of our always-fallible efforts to obey His commands?

"The Law," as Paul meant it, is, then, both a general reference to rule-keeping as a means of achieving and maintaining a relationship with God and also a reference, at times, to the OT Mosaic law from which the Jews had been set free by Christ. From all legalistic rule-keeping the born-again person has been freed, walking with God in the grace and perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ, producing a holy life as a natural outflow of the "state of grace" in which they stand as a born-again child of God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The reason why works of the law do not make you righteous is how we know he is talking about ALL works. You do not get the righteousness of God that comes from God by doing righteous works. You get it by believing God's promise about a Son apart from and without works, the same way Abraham, our example of righteousness by faith, was made righteous with the righteousness that is from God.

Using the same principal, can't we tell who really believes just by their "works"?
If our deeds/actions illustrate whom we serve, don't the wicked deeds/acts of some illustrate that they still serve the devil?

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, the desires of the flesh still speak. That's how we know it is not dead as you are saying it is dead. The end of it's AUTHORITY to make us sin by force of law is how it is dead. The flesh can only lie to us now and deceive us into thinking it still has power and authority over us to make us submit to it.

13But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. Hebrews 3:13

You are fighting against scripture.
If the flesh, along with the affections and lusts, were killed, as Paul writes in Gal 5:24, how can they still have the power you attribute to them?

 

[Hopeful 2]

It's often struck me how...slippery some of the saved-by-works folk must become in countering the plain declaration of God's word that by the works of the law no one is justified before God. "It's only the Mosaic Law that Paul's talking about," they say. "There are other commands of God outside the Mosaic Law that MUST be obeyed if you want to be saved." However, in Scripture, salvation by grace through faith in Christ is set in contradistinction to salvation by ritual, self-effort and rule-keeping. Law-keeping is representative of a way of interacting with God that doesn't "work," and that is actually the opposite of the way God has made through Christ to enjoy fellowship with Himself.

The Law (Mosaic, or otherwise) is the Old Covenant means to pleasing and serving God, to be in His "good graces." Obey the rules of separation, and ceremony, and conduct that God had issued through Moses and you'd be all right with Him. But, as Scripture tells us, this was an impossible way to maintain good relations with God. Over and over again, Israel wandered from God into terrible sin. Keeping God's law successfully - which is to say, perfectly - God's own Chosen People had demonstrated for centuries was impossible. Read Psalm 78. As Paul explained, the Law that was good, served only to condemn rather than enable people to walk with God.

Romans 7:5-12
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.
9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;
11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

God's commands serve only to provoke Man's sinful inclinations. Holy, righteous and good as God's laws are, the sinful passions of human beings are aroused by His laws, not subdued by them. And "falling foul" of God's law brings us all under His condemnation, not into fellowship with Him. Here, though, it's important to take in what Paul is actually saying. All human beings, inside or outside of Israel, Jew or Gentile, are under divine condemnation. But if the Mosaic Law, given solely to Israel, is what Paul had in mind when he wrote of "the Law," how does it apply to Gentiles? How do they fall condemned under a system of law God never intended for them? Clearly, Paul had more in mind when he wrote of God's law than the laws of separation, ceremony and civil conduct given to Israel through Moses. Paul's notion of "the Law" encompassed commands of God beyond those given to Israel, commands that were strictly confined to the Mosaic system of laws. This is very evident in his letter to the Galatian believers who were mostly Gentiles.

Galatians 3:10-14
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."
11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"—
14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Why is no one - Jew or Gentile - justified by keeping God's commands (vs. 11)? Because we don't have it in ourselves to obey perfectly, as we must if rule-keeping is going to bring us into favorable relations with God. Paul explained this very well in Romans 7 (see above). God is perfect and accepts only perfection in our interactions with Him. But we are none of us perfect. Far from it (Romans 3:10, 23; Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3, etc.). We need another way to be reconciled to, and accepted by, our holy Maker, a way to be perfect that doesn't originate in us.

Galatians 3:21-25
21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Here, Paul indicated that keeping of the rules cannot "impart life." We are all "dead in trespasses and sins" and desperately need reviving, but the Law (representative of a particular fleshly, legalistic way of approaching God) is unable to impart to us the perfect life of Christ, which is what we need. Law-keeping can only condemn imperfect creatures. Instead, God has instituted righteousness by faith; He will justify us by way of our trust in Christ by which his perfect righteousness is then imputed to us. (1 Corinthians 1:2, 8-9, 30; Ephesians 1:1-13) Justified by faith, we are no longer under the "tutor," the death-dealing commands of God.

Continued below.

Will any murderers or liars be saved?
No.
Can't we than say that not murdering or lying will save us?
All our actions on earth are the result of whom we serve.
We have been enabled to tell only the truth, and to pray for our enemies instead of killing them, so, by the grace of God that saves us, we can also not kill and always tell the truth.
God will not force a man to be converted.
We have a part to play in our own salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Using the same principal, can't we tell who really believes just by their "works"?

Yes.

The ever-increasing traits and fruit of the Spirit in a person confirm their calling and election and give them assurance of a rich welcome into the kingdom of God (2 Peter 1:5-11 NIV). That's what it means to be justified by your works. Your works show you to have the righteousness of faith (James 2:18).

If our deeds/actions illustrate whom we serve, don't the wicked deeds/acts of some illustrate that they still serve the devil?

Yes.

The unchanged, unconverted person who is not increasing in the fruits and traits of the Spirit shows exactly that...that he is unchanged and unconverted by the Spirit of God in salvation and is still ruled and enslaved by the flesh. In fact, that person will increase in his wickedness the same way the born again saved person is increasing in his righteous behavior. 2 Timothy 3:13 NIV

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are fighting against scripture.
If the flesh, along with the affections and lusts, were killed, as Paul writes in Gal 5:24, how can they still have the power you attribute to them?

I said, because sin and the flesh is deceitful.
We know by the simple fact that that the flesh still speaks that it is not dead the way you are trying to say it is dead. It is dead in regard to it's authority, by force of the law, to make us submit to it's desires and bear it's fruit (Romans 7:1-7).
It can only deceive us into thinking it still has power and authority over us.
That is why Paul tells us to reckon (count, consider) ourselves dead to sin (Romans 6:11), because the flesh still speaks and will lie to you and try to convince you that you are still 'married' to it and for that reason still have to give into it's desires and bear it's fruit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Will any murderers or liars be saved?
No.
Can't we than say that not murdering or lying will save us?

NO!
That is the exact logic of the natural man that is completely untrue.
It goes like this: "If I'm condemned and not saved because of my sin, it must reason that I become saved by not sinning". Sounds good to the natural man because that is the natural expectation of the carnal mind, but it is completely false.

The only way you'll be righteous enough to be saved and inherit the kingdom of God is to be forgiven your sins and given the righteousness of God, a righteousness that comes from outside of yourself by which God counts you righteous. And you get that righteousness by believing and trusting in God's promise of his Son, Jesus, through whom that blessing comes, apart from consideration of your righteous works. Just as that was true of Abraham, our example of righteousness apart from works, who received the righteousness of God by which he was counted righteous when he believed God's promise of a Son who would inherit the blessing on his behalf.

 

[Tenchi]

Will any murderers or liars be saved?
No.

Certainly, some murderers and liars will be/are saved, Abraham, King David, the apostle Paul among them.

Will those who are living in an unrepentant lifestyle of murder, or lying, inherit God's kingdom? No.

Can't we than say that not murdering or lying will save us?

Of course not. If a shipwrecked man out in the middle of the ocean in a lifeboat doesn't jump out of the boat and try to swim to land does it follow that he will be rescued? No. In the same way, not living a life of unrepentant murder and lying does not mean one will be rescued from the ocean of sin in which one is stranded.

We have been enabled to tell only the truth, and to pray for our enemies instead of killing them, so, by the grace of God that saves us, we can also not kill and always tell the truth.

We have not been enabled ONLY to tell the truth. That's nowhere in Scripture.

We never have to sin. But this is no guarantee we won't, as Paul's letters repeatedly illustrate.


Anyway, your post is basically a glaring deflection from what I wrote. Again.

 

[7thMoon]

No one is woke from the dead unless they are corpse. This implies we aren't even saved from death.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes.
The ever-increasing traits and fruit of the Spirit in a person confirm their calling and election and give them assurance of a rich welcome into the kingdom of God (2 Peter 1:5-11 NIV). That's what it means to be justified by your works. Your works show you to have the righteousness of faith (James 2:18).

Good to hear, from you.

Yes.
The unchanged, unconverted person who is not increasing in the fruits and traits of the Spirit shows exactly that...that he is unchanged and unconverted by the Spirit of God in salvation and is still ruled and enslaved by the flesh. In fact, that person will increase in his wickedness the same way the born again saved person is increasing in his righteous behavior. 2 Timothy 3:13 NIV

So much for the fallacy of continued sin, in believers.
Sinners are unchanged, unconverted, and not increasing in the fruits...etc.
Sinners serve a different master than Jesus.
They serve sin.
"Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)
Jesus said..."No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other."
Sinners despise God...according to Jesus.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I said, because sin and the flesh is deceitful.

Not in the face of the Holy Spirit, which is given to the honestly repentant..

We know by the simple fact that that the flesh still speaks that it is not dead the way you are trying to say it is dead. It is dead in regard to it's authority, by force of the law, to make us submit to it's desires and bear it's fruit (Romans 7:1-7).

The fleshly minded old man was killed with Christ at its "immersion" into Christ's death. (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24)

It can only deceive us into thinking it still has power and authority over us.

Now your getting it.
Temptations are usually just memories of what may have appealed to us before being reborn of God.

That is why Paul tells us to reckon (count, consider) ourselves dead to sin (Romans 6:11), because the flesh still speaks and will lie to you and try to convince you that you are still 'married' to it and for that reason still have to give into it's desires and bear it's fruit.

You got the message, but added your own reasoning to it.
What you attribute to dead flesh, are really temptations from the devil.

 

[Hopeful 2]

NO!
That is the exact logic of the natural man that is completely untrue.
It goes like this: "If I'm condemned and not saved because of my sin, it must reason that I become saved by not sinning". Sounds good to the natural man because that is the natural expectation of the carnal mind, but it is completely false.

Sorry you have closed your mind.
If a liar cannot be saved, not telling lies will save him.
Your hypothetical reasoning perfectly describes the false faiths, but when seen from the perspective of the "new creature", it is the truth.
Most here say they have their salvation already.
The think falsely that telling lies won't impact their eventual judgement.
In that light you are correct in your assumption.
But in reality, the final day's judgement will determine our fate, and not telling lies, or murdering, or committing adultery, etc., will prove our conversion to God.
What did Jesus say in Matt 7:23..."And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

The only way you'll be righteous enough to be saved and inherit the kingdom of God is to be forgiven your sins and given the righteousness of God, a righteousness that comes from outside of yourself by which God counts you righteous. And you get that righteousness by believing and trusting in God's promise of his Son, Jesus, through whom that blessing comes, apart from consideration of your righteous works. Just as that was true of Abraham, our example of righteousness apart from works, who received the righteousness of God by which he was counted righteous when he believed God's promise of a Son who would inherit the blessing on his behalf.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Certainly, some murderers and liars will be/are saved, Abraham, King David, the apostle Paul among them.

LOL

Will those who are living in an unrepentant lifestyle of murder, or lying, inherit God's kingdom? No.

So repentance from sin is necessary for salvation.
I am glad you understand that.

Of course not. If a shipwrecked man out in the middle of the ocean in a lifeboat doesn't jump out of the boat and try to swim to land does it follow that he will be rescued? No. In the same way, not living a life of unrepentant murder and lying does not mean one will be rescued from the ocean of sin in which one is stranded.

My "not lying" is your "jump out of the boat".
Both are the effort we put into our "saving".

We have not been enabled ONLY to tell the truth. That's nowhere in Scripture.

1 John 3:9 tells the truth..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Those reborn of God's seed cannot bring forth the fruit of the devil.

We never have to sin. But this is no guarantee we won't, as Paul's letters repeatedly illustrate.

Hold fast to your conversion or let the facade slip away.

Anyway, your post is basically a glaring deflection from what I wrote. Again.

I'll present my reactions to your posts.
Just as you do for my posts.

 

[Tenchi]

So repentance from sin is necessary for salvation.
I am glad you understand that.

I'm glad you're glad. I wonder, though, if we hold the same understanding of repentance...

My "not lying" is your "jump out of the boat".
Both are the effort we put into our "saving".

It appears you didn't understand the analogy.

1 John 3:9 tells the truth..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Those reborn of God's seed cannot bring forth the fruit of the devil.

I've already rebutted this notion of yours in other threads. But, you're still trotting out your seed analogy like I haven't, so I'm not going to bother rehashing the obvious problems with it. Your willful blindness can't be remedied merely by repeating the truth.

Hold fast to your conversion or let the facade slip away.

Uh huh. Scripture says what it says: Christians still sin. 1 Corinthians 3, 5, 6, 11; Galatians; Ephesians 5:1-13; Romans 6:1-11, Revelation 2-3, etc. Let your doctrinal myopia dissolve so that you might see the truth.

I'll present my reactions to your posts.
Just as you do for my posts.

Deflections are reactions, I suppose...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So much for the fallacy of continued sin, in believers.

Well, I didn't expect you to acknowledge the 'ever increasing' part of my post, lol. 2 Peter 1:8 NIV

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sinners are unchanged, unconverted, and not increasing in the fruits...etc.

That's what I said.

Meanwhile, born again, saved believers are changed, converted, and increasing in the fruits and traits of the Spirit.