Salvation in Christ - Secure

[Guest]

What's the first step in realizing the need for salvation? Realizing we are sinners.

All we are saying is that we are to BE first, in order to DO second. Salvation = the Christian life. We must BE in order to DO, not do in order to be.

You can not live the Christian life, until you are saved first. You must be born again, but even then, the Christian life is not something we live, but something that lives in us.

Yes!! Wise words my friend. Blessings to you!

 

[Guest]

Additionally, we are not saved from eternal torment in hell and we don't go to live with God when we die etc. Saying a person who falls away is a logical fallacy, it's not an argument. A person cannot fall from a place they've never been, it's impossible. In order to fall away from the faith one must be in the faith. Additionally, it's not impossible to for faith to cease. Jesus Himself gave an example of faith ceasing.

Yes we are saved from eternal torment in hell, and the righteous do go to live with God after we die, after the jugement throne. Falling away and completely walking away from Christ are two different things. It is impossible for faith to cease, in a born again Christian that is. Rather it's possible for 'faith' to cease in an apostate, because they never had it to begin with. Your beliefs need work. Blessings.

 

[ezra]

the biggest issue with the eternally security teaching is you have those who believe in it. yet the lifestyle that they lead on a every day bases does not line up with being a new creation in Christ. we all have our quirks the sin we struggle with. i am ordained gen baptist they teach one can fall from salvation.. for me personally we can be secure in Christ scripture teaches that. often there are those who get saved then a some point return back to the old ways. yet still claim to be saved several of the various Baptist hold to eternal security teaching. i am secure in Christ-i have a know so salvation. when i do wrong my heart is pricked i ask the Lord to forgive me.

Romans 7:14-20 (NIV)

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

this holds lots of truth i have heard other preachers say eternal security is false teaching. as apul wrote we need to as paul wrote in Philippians 2:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
Light Bearers

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out ( complete-stay the course ) your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. before claiming eternal security one needs make sure they are saved.. other wise they could be like the dog---Proverbs 26:11
New International Version (NIV)
11 As a dog returns to its vomit,
so fools repeat their folly. i do believe in full security of my salvation. what i can not say is one that returns to its vomit, (old nature) will they make it was they truly saved? i leave that up to Christ

 

[Grappler]

Additionally, we are not saved from eternal torment in hell and we don't go to live with God when we die etc. Saying a person who falls away is a logical fallacy, it's not an argument. A person cannot fall from a place they've never been, it's impossible. In order to fall away from the faith one must be in the faith. Additionally, it's not impossible to for faith to cease. Jesus Himself gave an example of faith ceasing.

Yes we are saved from eternal torment in hell, and the righteous do go to live with God after we die, after the jugement throne. Falling away and completely walking away from Christ are two different things. It is impossible for faith to cease, in a born again Christian that is. Rather it's possible for 'faith' to cease in an apostate, because they never had it to begin with. Your beliefs need work. Blessings.

Uhoh which is it urk?? Do we go to heaven after we die or after the judgement throne?? You can't have it both ways.lol

 

[Grappler]

Ephesians 4:30 says they were sealed "unto" the day of redemption. The Greek word translated "unto" is "eis". Basically it means towards a goal. It indicates forward motion. In other words they were sealed towards salvation. There is nothing in this passage that would indicate the salvation can't be lost. Like 1 Peter 1:4 speaks of the inheritance, it says it is reserved for them. Nothing in this passage indicates that they will definitely receive that inheritance. If I reserve a table at a restaurant but don't show up I won't receive the table that was reserved for me. Likewise if the Christians doesn't remain faithful he will not receive the inheritance. Notice the next verse,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1Pe 1:5 KJV)

He said they are kept through faith. If one does not remain in the faith he will not be kept.

I disagree. If we look at Ephesians 4:30 closer it says, And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption -- It says grieve not. Grieve not means don't worry. Grieve not what? THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD!!! It also says sealed unto the day of redemption. The definition of redemption is deliverance or rescue. What is he rescuing us from? ETERNAL TORMENT IN HELL! Unto doesn't mean goal, rather scripture is stating a fact. The reason he's saying this is because when a christian dies and his heart stops beating, he no longer has to be sealed with the Holy Spirit because he will be literally be living with God after he dies. Salvation can't be lost because we are sealed. The definition of sealed is what it is, the can of soup is sealed shut! Well, what's inside the can of soup? The can itself is your body, the seal on the can is your inheritance in heaven and the vegetables inside is the Holy Spirit dwelling inside your body! When you break the bible down into words and definitions, it makes it that much easier.

It's impossible for faith to cease to exist inside a born again Christian. Faith can diminish or fall away, but God will always bring him back to his will. If you are sealed with the Holy Spirit, it's impossible for the Holy Spirit to leave you. He will never leave you. If a 'christian' walks away from their church or faith, they were never born again to begin with. These people are called apostates or false prophets. 1 Peter 1:4-5 without a doubt proves a born again christian cannot lose faith. The power of God through faith. Yes!! FAITH FAITH FAITH!! You will know them by their fruits, Butch. Do not confuse an apostate with a born again christian, do not make that mistake.

Hi,

You're free to disagree, however, your arguments here are not logical. You've made a few assumptions also. First of all, what is a seal? Is it something that cannot be broken of is it something intended to be broken? When you buy milk it is sealed, can it be opened? Yes. When you mail an letter it is sealed, can it be opened? Yes. The purpose of a seal is to allow the recipient to know whether or not the contents of something have been tampered with. In Paul's day a seal was placed on a document so that the recipient would know if anyone tampered with the document while it was in transit. Without a seal someone could have altered the document before it reached its recipient, the seal prevented this. However, when the document was sealed there was every intention that the seal would be broken. Our being sealed with the Holy Spirit marks us as belonging to God, it doesn't mean the seal cannot be broken.

Additionally, we are not saved from eternal torment in hell and we don't go to live with God when we die etc. Saying a person who falls away is a logical fallacy, it's not an argument. A person cannot fall from a place they've never been, it's impossible. In order to fall away from the faith one must be in the faith. Additionally, it's not impossible to for faith to cease. Jesus Himself gave an example of faith ceasing.

Butch let me break this down real simple for you. Jesus said "all that the Father has given me will come to me and whoever comes to me i will never cast out" I came to Jesus. He said he will never cast me out. Or let us look at it another way. Can one become unborn once they are born? If you answered No then you are correct. The same applies to spiritual birth as well butch. So i am going to kick back grab a cold one and sit on my blessed assurance that my salvation is secure.

 

[Butch5]

You're free to disagree, however, your arguments here are not logical. You've made a few assumptions also. First of all, what is a seal? Is it something that cannot be broken of is it something intended to be broken? When you buy milk it is sealed, can it be opened? Yes. When you mail an letter it is sealed, can it be opened? Yes. The purpose of a seal is to allow the recipient to know whether or not the contents of something have been tampered with. In Paul's day a seal was placed on a document so that the recipient would know if anyone tampered with the document while it was in transit. Without a seal someone could have altered the document before it reached its recipient, the seal prevented this. However, when the document was sealed there was every intention that the seal would be broken. Our being sealed with the Holy Spirit marks us as belonging to God, it doesn't mean the seal cannot be broken.

Yeah but we're not talking about a carton of milk or a half broken envelope. We're talking about God the Father, the Kingdom of God and his promises to us. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING can break his seal!! We are sealed with the blood of Christ. His BLOOD Butch.

Urk,

You can't just redefine the terms to fit your doctrine. If we want to understand what Paul means by the word seal we need to understand what a seal was to Paul. It doesn't matter what a seal means to a 21 century American. All you need to do is look at the book of Revelation to see that a seal can be broken. Stating your opinion, no matter how strongly does not make it a fact.

 

[Butch5]

I have a questions for anyone here. Which comes first; Salvation or the Christian life?

In the ultimate sense the Christian life comes first. Salvation comes at the resurrection.

 

[Mitspa]

the biggest issue with the eternally security teaching is you have those who believe in it. yet the lifestyle that they lead on a every day bases does not line up with being a new creation in Christ. we all have our quirks the sin we struggle with. i am ordained gen baptist they teach one can fall from salvation.. for me personally we can be secure in Christ scripture teaches that. often there are those who get saved then a some point return back to the old ways. yet still claim to be saved several of the various Baptist hold to eternal security teaching. i am secure in Christ-i have a know so salvation. when i do wrong my heart is pricked i ask the Lord to forgive me.

Romans 7:14-20 (NIV)

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

this holds lots of truth i have heard other preachers say eternal security is false teaching. as apul wrote we need to as paul wrote in Philippians 2:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
Light Bearers

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out ( complete-stay the course ) your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. before claiming eternal security one needs make sure they are saved.. other wise they could be like the dog---Proverbs 26:11
New International Version (NIV)
11 As a dog returns to its vomit,
so fools repeat their folly. i do believe in full security of my salvation. what i can not say is one that returns to its vomit, (old nature) will they make it was they truly saved? i leave that up to Christ

First the ONLY BIBLICAL way to "fall from grace" is to turn from the free justification of grace by faith back into law.
Gal 5:4

Also the dog that returns to vomit is these same people who turn from the "way of righteousness" the righteousnesss of God by faith, (back to the law) and from the "Holy Commandment" of God.
THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM.
and those who were washed and made clean by His Word.

As swine returns to wallow in the mire, so these return to wallow in their own sin. For the strength of sin is the law.
2 Pet 2:21-22

 

[Butch5]

Additionally, we are not saved from eternal torment in hell and we don't go to live with God when we die etc. Saying a person who falls away is a logical fallacy, it's not an argument. A person cannot fall from a place they've never been, it's impossible. In order to fall away from the faith one must be in the faith. Additionally, it's not impossible to for faith to cease. Jesus Himself gave an example of faith ceasing.

Yes we are saved from eternal torment in hell, and the righteous do go to live with God after we die, after the jugement throne. Falling away and completely walking away from Christ are two different things. It is impossible for faith to cease, in a born again Christian that is. Rather it's possible for 'faith' to cease in an apostate, because they never had it to begin with. Your beliefs need work. Blessings.

Urk,

There is no eternal torment and the righteous will live with God on earth once the Kingdom comes, these are taught in the Scriptures. The Scriptures say the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment in Hell. As I said, a person cannot fall away from a faith they never had, that statement is illogical. Additionally, the Scriptures give examples of believers who were lost. Your claim here is counter to the evidence in the Scriptures.

 

[Butch5]

the biggest issue with the eternally security teaching is you have those who believe in it. yet the lifestyle that they lead on a every day bases does not line up with being a new creation in Christ. we all have our quirks the sin we struggle with. i am ordained gen baptist they teach one can fall from salvation.. for me personally we can be secure in Christ scripture teaches that. often there are those who get saved then a some point return back to the old ways. yet still claim to be saved several of the various Baptist hold to eternal security teaching. i am secure in Christ-i have a know so salvation. when i do wrong my heart is pricked i ask the Lord to forgive me.

Romans 7:14-20 (NIV)

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

this holds lots of truth i have heard other preachers say eternal security is false teaching. as apul wrote we need to as paul wrote in Philippians 2:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
Light Bearers

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out ( complete-stay the course ) your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. before claiming eternal security one needs make sure they are saved.. other wise they could be like the dog---Proverbs 26:11
New International Version (NIV)
11 As a dog returns to its vomit,
so fools repeat their folly. i do believe in full security of my salvation. what i can not say is one that returns to its vomit, (old nature) will they make it was they truly saved? i leave that up to Christ

Hi Ezra,

It's really not a hard issue to research. History gives us the answer. This idea of OSAS is not seen in Christian history until the Reformation in the 1500's. For the first 1500 years of Christianity from the Apostles to the Reformation the church taught that salvation could be lost. That makes it incumbent on the one holding to OSAS to explain how his doctrine which didn't exist for the first 1500 years of Christian history suddenly became the truth of God's word and what had been to from the time of the Apostles is wrong. Additionally, he needs to address the issue of why, if OSAS is true, did the Christians refute the doctrine when it was raised by the Gnostics who John called antichrists. John called the Gnostics antichrist and the Gnostics held the doctrine of OSAS. This leaves the believer of OSAS to explain how a group labeled as antichrists by the Apostle John could have the true doctrine and the church have the wrong doctrine.

 

[Mitspa]

the biggest issue with the eternally security teaching is you have those who believe in it. yet the lifestyle that they lead on a every day bases does not line up with being a new creation in Christ. we all have our quirks the sin we struggle with. i am ordained gen baptist they teach one can fall from salvation.. for me personally we can be secure in Christ scripture teaches that. often there are those who get saved then a some point return back to the old ways. yet still claim to be saved several of the various Baptist hold to eternal security teaching. i am secure in Christ-i have a know so salvation. when i do wrong my heart is pricked i ask the Lord to forgive me.

Romans 7:14-20 (NIV)

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

this holds lots of truth i have heard other preachers say eternal security is false teaching. as apul wrote we need to as paul wrote in Philippians 2:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
Light Bearers

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out ( complete-stay the course ) your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. before claiming eternal security one needs make sure they are saved.. other wise they could be like the dog---Proverbs 26:11
New International Version (NIV)
11 As a dog returns to its vomit,
so fools repeat their folly. i do believe in full security of my salvation. what i can not say is one that returns to its vomit, (old nature) will they make it was they truly saved? i leave that up to Christ

Hi Ezra,

It's really not a hard issue to research. History gives us the answer. This idea of OSAS is not seen in Christian history until the Reformation in the 1500's. For the first 1500 years of Christianity from the Apostles to the Reformation the church taught that salvation could be lost. That makes it incumbent on the one holding to OSAS to explain how his doctrine which didn't exist for the first 1500 years of Christian history suddenly became the truth of God's word and what had been to from the time of the Apostles is wrong. Additionally, he needs to address the issue of why, if OSAS is true, did the Christians refute the doctrine when it was raised by the Gnostics who John called antichrists. John called the Gnostics antichrist and the Gnostics held the doctrine of OSAS. This leaves the believer of OSAS to explain how a group labeled as antichrists by the Apostle John could have the true doctrine and the church have the wrong doctrine.

do you have any understanding of "church history" before the reformation? Are you trying to uphold the doctrines of the RCC as a biblical point on salvation. The reason the reformers believed and taught eternal salvation, is because they fought and died to read the bible and be allowed to believe what is clearly says.

 

[Butch5]

the biggest issue with the eternally security teaching is you have those who believe in it. yet the lifestyle that they lead on a every day bases does not line up with being a new creation in Christ. we all have our quirks the sin we struggle with. i am ordained gen baptist they teach one can fall from salvation.. for me personally we can be secure in Christ scripture teaches that. often there are those who get saved then a some point return back to the old ways. yet still claim to be saved several of the various Baptist hold to eternal security teaching. i am secure in Christ-i have a know so salvation. when i do wrong my heart is pricked i ask the Lord to forgive me.

Romans 7:14-20 (NIV)

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

this holds lots of truth i have heard other preachers say eternal security is false teaching. as apul wrote we need to as paul wrote in Philippians 2:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
Light Bearers

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out ( complete-stay the course ) your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. before claiming eternal security one needs make sure they are saved.. other wise they could be like the dog---Proverbs 26:11
New International Version (NIV)
11 As a dog returns to its vomit,
so fools repeat their folly. i do believe in full security of my salvation. what i can not say is one that returns to its vomit, (old nature) will they make it was they truly saved? i leave that up to Christ

Hi Ezra,

It's really not a hard issue to research. History gives us the answer. This idea of OSAS is not seen in Christian history until the Reformation in the 1500's. For the first 1500 years of Christianity from the Apostles to the Reformation the church taught that salvation could be lost. That makes it incumbent on the one holding to OSAS to explain how his doctrine which didn't exist for the first 1500 years of Christian history suddenly became the truth of God's word and what had been to from the time of the Apostles is wrong. Additionally, he needs to address the issue of why, if OSAS is true, did the Christians refute the doctrine when it was raised by the Gnostics who John called antichrists. John called the Gnostics antichrist and the Gnostics held the doctrine of OSAS. This leaves the believer of OSAS to explain how a group labeled as antichrists by the Apostle John could have the true doctrine and the church have the wrong doctrine.

do you have any understanding of "church history" before the reformation? Are you trying to uphold the doctrines of the RCC as a biblical point on salvation. The reason the reformers believed and taught eternal salvation, is because they fought and died to read the bible and be allowed to believe what is clearly says.

Just because they fought and died doesn't make them right. The teaching that salvation can be lost can be traced back to the apostles, long before there was a Roman Catholic church. The OSAS dotrine can be traced to the Reformation and no further, thus it is not what the Scriptures teach.

 

[Grappler]

Hi Ezra,

It's really not a hard issue to research. History gives us the answer. This idea of OSAS is not seen in Christian history until the Reformation in the 1500's. For the first 1500 years of Christianity from the Apostles to the Reformation the church taught that salvation could be lost. That makes it incumbent on the one holding to OSAS to explain how his doctrine which didn't exist for the first 1500 years of Christian history suddenly became the truth of God's word and what had been to from the time of the Apostles is wrong. Additionally, he needs to address the issue of why, if OSAS is true, did the Christians refute the doctrine when it was raised by the Gnostics who John called antichrists. John called the Gnostics antichrist and the Gnostics held the doctrine of OSAS. This leaves the believer of OSAS to explain how a group labeled as antichrists by the Apostle John could have the true doctrine and the church have the wrong doctrine.

do you have any understanding of "church history" before the reformation? Are you trying to uphold the doctrines of the RCC as a biblical point on salvation. The reason the reformers believed and taught eternal salvation, is because they fought and died to read the bible and be allowed to believe what is clearly says.

Just because they fought and died doesn't make them right. The teaching that salvation can be lost can be traced back to the apostles, long before there was a Roman Catholic church. The OSAS dotrine can be traced to the Reformation and no further, thus it is not what the Scriptures teach.

Jesus said all that the Father has given me will come to me and whoever comes to me i will never cast out. Don't like that do you butch?

 

[Guest]

I have a questions for anyone here. Which comes first; Salvation or the Christian life?

In the ultimate sense the Christian life comes first. Salvation comes at the resurrection.

Butch, I can just tell by this statement that you're very lost.

 

[Butch5]

I have a questions for anyone here. Which comes first; Salvation or the Christian life?

In the ultimate sense the Christian life comes first. Salvation comes at the resurrection.

Butch, I can just tell by this statement that you're very lost.

No, Urk, I'm not. I've simply rejected the false teachings of todays church in favor of what was taught in the beginning. There have been many changes in the faith in the last 2000 years. Men have added doctrine after doctrine to the faith. Much of what is taught today was foreign to first and second century Christians. This doctrine of OSAS was definitely foreign to them

 

[Guest]

I have a questions for anyone here. Which comes first; Salvation or the Christian life?

In the ultimate sense the Christian life comes first. Salvation comes at the resurrection.

Butch, I can just tell by this statement that you're very lost.

No, Urk, I'm not. I've simply rejected the false teachings of todays church in favor of what was taught in the beginning. There have been many changes in the faith in the last 2000 years. Men have added doctrine after doctrine to the faith. Much of what is taught today was foreign to first and second century Christians. This doctrine of OSAS was definitely foreign to them

But salvation comes when we make the choice in this lifetime to believe and confess that Jesus is the Lord our Savior, not at resurrection. If you die without salvation, you will not be written in the book of life.

 

[Butch5]

Butch, I can just tell by this statement that you're very lost.

No, Urk, I'm not. I've simply rejected the false teachings of todays church in favor of what was taught in the beginning. There have been many changes in the faith in the last 2000 years. Men have added doctrine after doctrine to the faith. Much of what is taught today was foreign to first and second century Christians. This doctrine of OSAS was definitely foreign to them

But salvation comes when we make the choice in this lifetime to believe and confess that Jesus is the Lord our Savior, not at resurrection. If you die without salvation, you will not be written in the book of life.

Salvation is a process that culminates at the resurrection. Jesus said he who endure to the end shall be saved, when speaking to the disciples. If salvation is upon belief, how has one endured to the end? You see, salvation is used in three tenses in the Scriptures, past, present and future. This shows that it is a process. Additionally, we see the book of Revelation speaks of the marriage supper of the Lamb. The marriage takes place when Christ returns (this is also when the resurrection takes place) and Paul told the Corinthians that he had betrothed them to Christ. A betrothal is what we would call and engagement. Paul was telling then that he had engaged them to Christ. The wedding would be in the future.

NKJ 2 Corinthians 11:1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly-- and indeed you do bear with me.
2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. (2Co 11:1-2 NKJ)

Notice betrothed is in the past tense, it occurred when they became believers, however, notice Paul said "may present" you. That is future tense. It is at the wedding that believers are presented to Christ

 

[Guest]

Salvation is a process that culminates at the resurrection. Jesus said he who endure to the end shall be saved, when speaking to the disciples. If salvation is upon belief, how has one endured to the end? You see, salvation is used in three tenses in the Scriptures, past, present and future. This shows that it is a process. Additionally, we see the book of Revelation speaks of the marriage supper of the Lamb. The marriage takes place when Christ returns (this is also when the resurrection takes place) and Paul told the Corinthians that he had betrothed them to Christ. A betrothal is what we would call and engagement. Paul was telling then that he had engaged them to Christ. The wedding would be in the future.

No Butch, salvation is not a process, it's a one time occurrence. Growing in God's grace and love is the process. What does the blood of Jesus mean to you? Do you believe in a soul and a spirit?

 

[ezra]

the biggest issue with the eternally security teaching is you have those who believe in it. yet the lifestyle that they lead on a every day bases does not line up with being a new creation in Christ. we all have our quirks the sin we struggle with. i am ordained gen baptist they teach one can fall from salvation.. for me personally we can be secure in Christ scripture teaches that. often there are those who get saved then a some point return back to the old ways. yet still claim to be saved several of the various Baptist hold to eternal security teaching. i am secure in Christ-i have a know so salvation. when i do wrong my heart is pricked i ask the Lord to forgive me.

Romans 7:14-20 (NIV)

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

this holds lots of truth i have heard other preachers say eternal security is false teaching. as apul wrote we need to as paul wrote in Philippians 2:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
Light Bearers

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out ( complete-stay the course ) your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. before claiming eternal security one needs make sure they are saved.. other wise they could be like the dog---Proverbs 26:11
New International Version (NIV)
11 As a dog returns to its vomit,
so fools repeat their folly. i do believe in full security of my salvation. what i can not say is one that returns to its vomit, (old nature) will they make it was they truly saved? i leave that up to Christ

First the ONLY BIBLICAL way to "fall from grace" is to turn from the free justification of grace by faith back into law.
Gal 5:4

Also the dog that returns to vomit is these same people who turn from the "way of righteousness" the righteousnesss of God by faith, (back to the law) and from the "Holy Commandment" of God.
THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM.
and those who were washed and made clean by His Word.

As swine returns to wallow in the mire, so these return to wallow in their own sin. For the strength of sin is the law.
2 Pet 2:21-22

i understand scripture

Also the dog that returns to vomit is these same people who turn from the "way of righteousness" the righteousnesss of God by faith, (back to the law) and from the "Holy Commandment" of God.

that would be returning back to the old nature.

 

[Butch5]

Salvation is a process that culminates at the resurrection. Jesus said he who endure to the end shall be saved, when speaking to the disciples. If salvation is upon belief, how has one endured to the end? You see, salvation is used in three tenses in the Scriptures, past, present and future. This shows that it is a process. Additionally, we see the book of Revelation speaks of the marriage supper of the Lamb. The marriage takes place when Christ returns (this is also when the resurrection takes place) and Paul told the Corinthians that he had betrothed them to Christ. A betrothal is what we would call and engagement. Paul was telling then that he had engaged them to Christ. The wedding would be in the future.

No Butch, salvation is not a process, it's a one time occurrence. Growing in God's grace and love is the process. What does the blood of Jesus mean to you? Do you believe in a soul and a spirit?

Urk, what you are denying is right there in the Scriptures. Salvation is not a one time event. Paul said he betrothed Corinthians to Christ, He didn't say he wed them to Christ. Let me ask you, are you going to die?

Here Paul shows that salvation is a process in his words the Chrsitians at Rome.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
(Rom 5:8-10 KJV)

Do you see? It is present justification and a future salvation from wrath or God's destruction.