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Salvation in Christ - Secure

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Are you serious? Make you case for OSAS. Show me a single passage that says salvation can't be lost. I can show plenty that say it can. You claim it's a doctrine that can't be challenged yet not only can it be challenged, it can't even be found in Scripture. The best argument that the OSAS side can present it one from inference. It has to be inferred because there is "NOT" a single passage of Scripture that states it. One would think a doctrine of such magnitude would have a least a single passage of Scripture to support it, yet OSAS has nothing. Since it isn't stated it can't be proven, thus it's an opinion.

As I said, the doctrine has it's roots in Gnosticism and Greek Philosophy. Here's Origen refuting the idea of OSAS around 285 A.D.

8. Let us begin, then, with what is said about Pharaoh—that he was hardened by God, that he might not send away the people; along with which will be examined also the statement of the apostle, “Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth.” And certain of those who hold different opinions misuse these passages, themselves also almost destroying free-will by introducing ruined natures incapable of salvation, and others saved which it is impossible can be lost; and Pharaoh, they say, as being of a ruined nature, is therefore hardened by God, who has mercy upon the spiritual, but hardens the earthly.
Early Church Fathers - – Ante-Nicene Fathers:
Well like I said these are all RCC sources and of course they agree with RCC doctrine. Like I said you have no information that confronts reformation doctrine but that which was the object to be protested and reformed.
And many scriptures that prove this doctrine have been presented to you. It requires faith to have confidence in the promises of God. If one does not have faith, of course they will not believe what the promise says.
Now I have quoted ONE scripture and it in itself proves my point that NOTHING CAN seperate a believer from the love of God. If that does not save one forever? Then I do not know what does?
Rom 8:38-39

I am not here to defend OSAS, nor is there one constant doctrine that those who use the term all agree too.
But in general, it is a sound and very biblical position.

Now Origen himself was accused by many of being a heritic,
and his teachings are NOT ACCEPTED as any witness to the truth of scripture.

The insult you charge against those who believe the clear and evident truth of the scriptures, is just that? an insult and it has no purpose other than to make a false charge against the true gospel.

No, they are not. There was no RCC in 285 A.D. You're simply dismissing any evidence that is against your position. As I said, in 285 there was no RCC. Your claim about Origen will be seen as bogus unless you can back it up. You claim of Romans 8:38-39 does not support OSAS. Paul said nothing could separate them from the "Love" of God, He didn't say nothing could separate them from God. Jesus said, "for God so loved the world" are you going to argue that the whole world will be saved? He said, "that those who believe might be saved". Clearly He loves those who are not saved. So this passage does nothing to support OSAS. I've already shown the doctrine has it's roots in Gnosticism and Greek Philosophy. And so far you have made "NO" case for the doctrine. Where is Scripture telling us that salvation cannot be lost?

o·pin·ion
[ ə pínnyən ]
  • personal view: the view somebody takes about an issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment
  • estimation: a view regarding the worth of somebody or something
  • expert view: an expert assessment of something

So in your mind one can have Gods love and not have God?
I think that proves that under no condition of any witness of scripture you will believe the truth. But for us who know that Gods love is a product of the Holy Spirit, "shed abroad in our heart" we know very well what this scriptures means. It means we are forever in the position of having Gods love and all that His love gives us.
If who has Gods love, they have God, for God is love.
1 Jn 4:7-13
1 Jn 4:16-17 AND WE KNOW AND BELIEVE THE LOVE GOD HAS TOWARDS US. GOD IS LOVE;AND HE THAT DWELLETH IN LOVE DWELLETH IN GOD, AND GOD IN HIM.
HEREIN IS OUR LOVE MADE PERFECT THAT WE MIGHT HAVE BOLDNESS IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, BECAUSE AS HE IS, SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD.
 
Are you serious? Make you case for OSAS. Show me a single passage that says salvation can't be lost. I can show plenty that say it can. You claim it's a doctrine that can't be challenged yet not only can it be challenged, it can't even be found in Scripture. The best argument that the OSAS side can present it one from inference. It has to be inferred because there is "NOT" a single passage of Scripture that states it. One would think a doctrine of such magnitude would have a least a single passage of Scripture to support it, yet OSAS has nothing. Since it isn't stated it can't be proven, thus it's an opinion.

As I said, the doctrine has it's roots in Gnosticism and Greek Philosophy. Here's Origen refuting the idea of OSAS around 285 A.D.

8. Let us begin, then, with what is said about Pharaoh—that he was hardened by God, that he might not send away the people; along with which will be examined also the statement of the apostle, “Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth.” And certain of those who hold different opinions misuse these passages, themselves also almost destroying free-will by introducing ruined natures incapable of salvation, and others saved which it is impossible can be lost; and Pharaoh, they say, as being of a ruined nature, is therefore hardened by God, who has mercy upon the spiritual, but hardens the earthly.
Early Church Fathers - – Ante-Nicene Fathers:
Well like I said these are all RCC sources and of course they agree with RCC doctrine. Like I said you have no information that confronts reformation doctrine but that which was the object to be protested and reformed.
And many scriptures that prove this doctrine have been presented to you. It requires faith to have confidence in the promises of God. If one does not have faith, of course they will not believe what the promise says.
Now I have quoted ONE scripture and it in itself proves my point that NOTHING CAN seperate a believer from the love of God. If that does not save one forever? Then I do not know what does?
Rom 8:38-39

I am not here to defend OSAS, nor is there one constant doctrine that those who use the term all agree too.
But in general, it is a sound and very biblical position.

Now Origen himself was accused by many of being a heritic,
and his teachings are NOT ACCEPTED as any witness to the truth of scripture.

The insult you charge against those who believe the clear and evident truth of the scriptures, is just that? an insult and it has no purpose other than to make a false charge against the true gospel.

No, they are not. There was no RCC in 285 A.D. You're simply dismissing any evidence that is against your position. As I said, in 285 there was no RCC. Your claim about Origen will be seen as bogus unless you can back it up. You claim of Romans 8:38-39 does not support OSAS. Paul said nothing could separate them from the "Love" of God, He didn't say nothing could separate them from God. Jesus said, "for God so loved the world" are you going to argue that the whole world will be saved? He said, "that those who believe might be saved". Clearly He loves those who are not saved. So this passage does nothing to support OSAS. I've already shown the doctrine has it's roots in Gnosticism and Greek Philosophy. And so far you have made "NO" case for the doctrine. Where is Scripture telling us that salvation cannot be lost?

o·pin·ion
[ ə pínnyən ]
  • personal view: the view somebody takes about an issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment
  • estimation: a view regarding the worth of somebody or something
  • expert view: an expert assessment of something

So in your mind one can have Gods love and not have God?
I think that proves that under no condition of any witness of scripture you will believe the truth. But for us who know that Gods love is a product of the Holy Spirit, "shed abroad in our heart" we know very well what this scriptures means. It means we are forever in the position of having Gods love and all that His love gives us.
If who has Gods love, they have God, for God is love.
1 Jn 4:7-13
1 Jn 4:16-17 AND WE KNOW AND BELIEVE THE LOVE GOD HAS TOWARDS US. GOD IS LOVE;AND HE THAT DWELLETH IN LOVE DWELLETH IN GOD, AND GOD IN HIM.
HEREIN IS OUR LOVE MADE PERFECT THAT WE MIGHT HAVE BOLDNESS IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, BECAUSE AS HE IS, SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD.

Did Jesus say,

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Joh 3:16 KJV)?

If you answer is yes, then the next question is, is every one saved?


I have another question for you. You quote the Scriptures, how do you know who wrote them? After all, Mathew, Mark, and John, do not give their authors? The others such as Paul's writings, how do you know it was the apostle Paul and not some other person named Paul. Or, how do you know it wasn't just some guy who wrote it and put Paul's name on it?

Also, I have seen you post from the Gospels of Peter or Judas, is there a reason you haven't quoted these two works?
 
No, they are not. There was no RCC in 285 A.D. You're simply dismissing any evidence that is against your position. As I said, in 285 there was no RCC. Your claim about Origen will be seen as bogus unless you can back it up. You claim of Romans 8:38-39 does not support OSAS. Paul said nothing could separate them from the "Love" of God, He didn't say nothing could separate them from God. Jesus said, "for God so loved the world" are you going to argue that the whole world will be saved? He said, "that those who believe might be saved". Clearly He loves those who are not saved. So this passage does nothing to support OSAS. I've already shown the doctrine has it's roots in Gnosticism and Greek Philosophy. And so far you have made "NO" case for the doctrine. Where is Scripture telling us that salvation cannot be lost?

o·pin·ion
[ ə pínnyən ]
  • personal view: the view somebody takes about an issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment
  • estimation: a view regarding the worth of somebody or something
  • expert view: an expert assessment of something

So in your mind one can have Gods love and not have God?
I think that proves that under no condition of any witness of scripture you will believe the truth. But for us who know that Gods love is a product of the Holy Spirit, "shed abroad in our heart" we know very well what this scriptures means. It means we are forever in the position of having Gods love and all that His love gives us.
If who has Gods love, they have God, for God is love.
1 Jn 4:7-13
1 Jn 4:16-17 AND WE KNOW AND BELIEVE THE LOVE GOD HAS TOWARDS US. GOD IS LOVE;AND HE THAT DWELLETH IN LOVE DWELLETH IN GOD, AND GOD IN HIM.
HEREIN IS OUR LOVE MADE PERFECT THAT WE MIGHT HAVE BOLDNESS IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, BECAUSE AS HE IS, SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD.

Did Jesus say,

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Joh 3:16 KJV)?

If you answer is yes, then the next question is, is every one saved?


I have another question for you. You quote the Scriptures, how do you know who wrote them? After all, Mathew, Mark, and John, do not give their authors? The others such as Paul's writings, how do you know it was the apostle Paul and not some other person named Paul. Or, how do you know it wasn't just some guy who wrote it and put Paul's name on it?

Also, I have seen you post from the Gospels of Peter or Judas, is there a reason you haven't quoted these two works?

Well the truth of the cannon is and has been established, in my mind and heart beyond doubt. Now if you have doubts those are your own. God has proven His Word to me. And the scriptures have been verified through out the past two thousand years. As far as these other gospels you think have some bearing on the truth? Believe whatever gnostic nonsense you like.
 
No, they are not. There was no RCC in 285 A.D. You're simply dismissing any evidence that is against your position. As I said, in 285 there was no RCC. Your claim about Origen will be seen as bogus unless you can back it up. You claim of Romans 8:38-39 does not support OSAS. Paul said nothing could separate them from the "Love" of God, He didn't say nothing could separate them from God. Jesus said, "for God so loved the world" are you going to argue that the whole world will be saved? He said, "that those who believe might be saved". Clearly He loves those who are not saved. So this passage does nothing to support OSAS. I've already shown the doctrine has it's roots in Gnosticism and Greek Philosophy. And so far you have made "NO" case for the doctrine. Where is Scripture telling us that salvation cannot be lost?

o·pin·ion
[ ə pínnyən ]
  • personal view: the view somebody takes about an issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment
  • estimation: a view regarding the worth of somebody or something
  • expert view: an expert assessment of something

So in your mind one can have Gods love and not have God?
I think that proves that under no condition of any witness of scripture you will believe the truth. But for us who know that Gods love is a product of the Holy Spirit, "shed abroad in our heart" we know very well what this scriptures means. It means we are forever in the position of having Gods love and all that His love gives us.
If who has Gods love, they have God, for God is love.
1 Jn 4:7-13
1 Jn 4:16-17 AND WE KNOW AND BELIEVE THE LOVE GOD HAS TOWARDS US. GOD IS LOVE;AND HE THAT DWELLETH IN LOVE DWELLETH IN GOD, AND GOD IN HIM.
HEREIN IS OUR LOVE MADE PERFECT THAT WE MIGHT HAVE BOLDNESS IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, BECAUSE AS HE IS, SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD.

Did Jesus say,

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Joh 3:16 KJV)?

If you answer is yes, then the next question is, is every one saved?


I have another question for you. You quote the Scriptures, how do you know who wrote them? After all, Mathew, Mark, and John, do not give their authors? The others such as Paul's writings, how do you know it was the apostle Paul and not some other person named Paul. Or, how do you know it wasn't just some guy who wrote it and put Paul's name on it?

Also, I have seen you post from the Gospels of Peter or Judas, is there a reason you haven't quoted these two works?

Well the truth of the cannon is and has been established, in my mind and heart beyond doubt. Now if you have doubts those are your own. God has proven His Word to me. And the scriptures have been verified through out the past two thousand years. As far as these other gospels you think have some bearing on the truth? Believe whatever gnostic nonsense you like.

I know the cannon has been established, that's not what I asked. How do "you" know that those books were actually written by the apostles. You say it's been verified through the past 2000 years, by who?
 
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