SALVATION

[Cornelius]

The bible says faith without works is dead. It doesnt says works with out faith is alive.

.

Which works are you referring to? Paul's works (that cannot save) or James's works that make faith alive ?

Dont be Corny; Corne. You know the ones Im referring to. and if you dont, then go back to sleep.

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I am serious. Which works are you referring to? As they are obviously not the same.

Look , the are not the same

Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

OK? These are "works of the law" by which we are not saved.

Now then, if we look at James, he is obviously not speaking of "works of the law" here , now is he?
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

and

Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

So .......not the same "works" at all . That much is clear.

Which works are you talking about ?

 

[Panin]

To Cornelius Maximus Twistus Receptus.

Your a stumbling at Paul when he said not too why????? Pauls scriptures can not be swept under the rug.

The later works do not save either, they are a fruit of salvation.

No works save. If you believe that works save you, IN ANY WAY you are not a Christian, You are a Jew Under the Law. You have rejected Christ and are darn near at risk of blaspheming the Holy SPirit in the process. We need to get that clear, or at least, that is not the biblical Christian faith.

The works justify the salvation, salvation is not justified by works OR ELSE THEN YOU CAN BOAST (which you are doing again and agian and again and yet again, OK HOLY MAN???. Your twisting terribly and I despair. The works come out of the faith and justify the faith. A man who is saved through faith will produce works that justify our faith in Christ. We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us, and for some of us our "works" that you are so proud of are just to make it out of bed in the morning and put one foot in front of the other.

We know that faith without works is dead, meaning a man without works is OBVIOUSLY not saved.
But we also know that works do not save a man, or else he will boast. YOUR TOAST MATE, now go back to sleep, and Im serious.

You need to define works now, so that we can Iron out your twists.

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Shad - Stop Twisting My Words ... !!!

Shad -- Would you please stop bearing false witness against me!!! You need to repent and aplogize for bearing false witness against me. Anyone who has been following this thread knows that you are bearing false witness against me.

I am only reflecting what you are saying, mate.

I have never preached against Jesus' commandments. And you know that! You are twisting my words ....

You are preaching "our work does not save you", in other words, you are saying our work dont count. Being obedient to Jesus is His followers at most duty because He is our Lord. Being obedient to Jesus is all work, friend. And you are preaching "your work do not save you." If you are saved you will have work.

Why don't you admit that you have twisted my words! And now you are trying to squirm your way out of it ....

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Shad - Stop Twisting My Words ... !!!

I think Christianity is the only religion that doesn't believe what you preach, Shad.
Only the audacity of man would make such a boast.
If that's the case, Jesus had no reason to come to this earth at all.

How did I boast? I just said no one can boast of their works because all good works come from God. You are falsely testifying. Are you reading?

Let me say this again. You are not saved if you think works does not save you because obedient to Jesus is all work. If you are not obedient to Jesus, you are not saved.

Shad -- You are NOT fooling anyone here .... You are still twisting words, including your own! You are still claiming that works save you. If your works save you, then maybe people should come to you for salvation .... Maybe you should start a new religion .... You would fit in quite nicely with any of the other cults. You can all have fun doing your works, pat yourself on the back, add chalk up your brownie points for heaven ...

Christianity is set apart from ALL other religions ... Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Nobody can come to the Father, except through Jesus. Jesus did ALL the works for salvation. It's not Jesus plus Shad ... or Jesus plus me ... or Jesus plus anyone else.

It's Jesus only ... And if you don't accept that, then you are still in bondage .... Come to Jesus, and He will set you free ... Only then will you know eternal peace!

 

[francisdesales]

It's Christ's righteousness and His work through us.
If they're our works of righteousness, they are filthy rags.

Again, a major misunderstanding of Scriptures based upon ONE verse taken out of context...

ALONE, my works cannot save myself. In Christ, MY works are indeed righteous.

Christ NEVER said that HIS righteousness would "cover up" the believer, as if God did not see Him. That is a MAJOR mistake of many of our separated brothers. They cannot comprehend the paradigm of love, covenant and relationship when discussing what happens between God and man.

Thus, they must invent an interpretation that has God REPLACING man, totally unscriptural. Christ is our REPRESENTATIVE. We PARTICIPATE. We don't sit by idly and passively as Christ "does it all". This is feeble Christianity, to put it nicely. It totally overlooks the GOOD NEWS - that man is MADE, I say again MADE holy...

Do you hear me???

MADE HOLY.

Not pretend. Not tossed aside as "filthy rags" as Christ does it all, as you would with a five year old who you can't trust to do anything... Our relationship with God is one of love. God shares His life with us, and not grudgingly, having to "replace" our work IN HIM.

Know this. AS a new creation, my good works are NOT filthy rags in God's eyes, since the Holy Spirit is THE MOVING PRINCIPLE within me. NOT MYSELF. And yet, Christ NEVER said HIS righteousness would replace us. In Matthew 5, He says that "unless YOURrighteousness surpasses the Pharisees and Scribes, you shall not see eternal life".

MY RIGHTEOUSNESS is REAL, based on the Spirit of God working within me. There is no need to present a false humility - GOD DESIRES to participate with us.

The credit for what good we do is His alone.

Where does the Bible say this? I am not familiar with that passage. It says we cannot brag, we cannot claim that WE did it ALONE, but it doesn't say "the credit all belongs to God". Can you please provide a citation???

We can do nothing good without the Lord, but WE must make the choice to ALLOW God to work within us, as Mary did at the Annunciation - "Let it be done to me according to your word".

Oh, most holy virgin, we pray that we may walk in your footsteps and obey the Lord as you did...

We all have that choice to make. And this faith is credited to US as RIGHTEOUSNESS. Thus GOD HIMSELF credits us with righteousness!

GOD HIMSELF CREDITS US WITH RIGHTOUSNESS.

So how can the "credit all belong to God"? HE HIMSELF in Scriptures says otherwise...

It is not Christ who will be judged at the end of time, but OUR COOPERATION - this is credited to us as wickedness or righteousness... God gives us "talents", without which, we can do nothing. But at the end of the day, did WE bury them or invest them??? God is not judged... WE will be.

Regards

 

[vja4Him]

I Believe the Bible - Do You ... ???

Glory and vja,

You guys are slithering away with the Word. Talk about twisting. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

.

Who is slithering away from the word Shad ... ???

I believe what the Bible tells me, and yet you continue to falsely accuse me ... Right here, for everyone to see! Who do you really think you are fooling .... ????

Romans 10:9-10, “9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.â€

Romans 8:38-39, “38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.â€

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Falsely Accusing People ....

Ah, of course I was referring to the believer.
We have the Holy Spirit to make known our sins to us.
Do we not?

Yes, we can sin. We do sin. We will probably continue to sin.

SOME may continue to sin and NOT repent... What then??? Their past repentance never happened??? This in effect tells us that you cannot even know you repented in the past!!!

Thus, YOUR statement, which I agree with, YOU do not - IF you remain consistent to the OSAS mantra (God never knew you, retroactively taking away what relationship you THOUGHT you had...)

This is something you CONTINUE to ignore - for obvious reasons. You refuse to face reality...

If you are REALLY seeking the truth, glorydaz, you will subject your opinions and interpretations to scrutiny, both good and bad. If they remain, it is reliable. Truth cannot fail. But if you feel you must hide from scrutiny by ignoring it, you are merely protecting an idol, rather than seeking the truth...

I was not avoiding the question at all....he chastens us when we disobey.
You just didn't like my answer, but it doesn't mean it's not the truth.

He does chasten us. The POINT of chastisement is to have us return. But you ignore the obvious - what happens if the person RETURNS TO THE VOMIT OF HIS PAST LIFE and DOES NOT RETURN???

What then?

God continues to call, but we can refuse to listen. We can do the opposite of Mary and NOT let it be done according to God's Will.

Such a man's life is worse than before ever knowing Christ. That is a solid indictment against the OSAS idea, which you continue to ignore.

I have asked you on several occasions to reflect on "how do you know when someone is saved".

You refused to answer.

I have asked you on several occasions to answer "at what point does someone know they are indeed saved - and really are"?

You have ignored it.

I have asked you to explain that logic of OSAS that leads you to realize you can NEVER know if you are indeed having a "true" relationship with God - since OSAS will claim "you never had it".

Again, nothing...

Really. You ARE ignoring the truth of the matter. And I know why. You are not seeking the truth, but defending a personal idolatry. TRUTH can be subject to scrutiny and will prevail. Honestly, by ignoring scrutiny, you know deep inside of your heart something that you do not want to admit... OSAS is a failure and CANNOT withstand a bit of logical scrutiny.

You said yourself He will lose none of His own.
Sin brings death, and the cross brings life....eternal life for those who are born again.

[/quote]

You don't know you are "one of His own" in the sense of the eschatological church. What part of that don't you get??? You can "THINK" that all day, but if you were to fall away in 2013 (which you cannot predict or deny could happen), we will look back and say that everything you say TODAY about yourself was all delusion - according to OSAS.

In the TRUE Biblical paradigm, my hope is dependent upon the Lord who remains in me TODAY, as I REMAIN in Christ. AS I obey the Spirit and His Commands, I can KNOW I am in Christ TODAY, even if I fall away in 2013, YOU or NO ONE can take that away from me. I am indeed in Christ, I can know that today. False theology is among the things that CANNOT interfere with the Love of Christ for me today...

And that is exactly what OSAS does - it tries to separate us from the Love of Christ in the past by telling the fallen away "Christ never loved you to begin with".

Think about it and stop ignoring the truth. If you are truly seeking God, you will put aside this ridiculous theology that totally fails the test of logic and Scriptures.

Be not deceived {glorydaz}; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Gal 6:7-8

You better be sure you are sowing to the Spirit, because otherwise, you are mocking God if you think you'll enter "life everlasting".

Regards

 

[vja4Him]

Do What the Bible Says - Romans 10:9-10

I definitely see a different gospel ... The gospel of save yourself, because God doesn't keep His promises. And you can't trust His word. So, just work, work, work, and you might get lucky and have a ticket to heaven. But don't get your hopes up, because you CAN'T know if you are saved anyways ....

Ya know, brother, can't you just hear someone saying, "I didn't know I'd have to work my entire life and still risk losing my place in heaven. I can tell some of these brothers can't even control their tongue, and talk about holier-than-thou... Maybe God isn't a loving Father after all. Sounds more like an evil tyrant type to me, and where is this Christian love and foregiveness I keep hearing about? Guess it's all a big lie."

Quite the testimony, isn't it? All this talk about working to get saved...how about asking Jesus to come into your heart and let His love show through? We're definately seeing a lot of man's "work" on this thread, and it ain't a pretty sight. I'll tell you what I'm seeing...I'm seeing the carnal man in all his glory.

You are absolutely correct .... I've seen this very same thing in person, right before my very eyes, in numerous churches. Only when you are there in person, it's even worse, because they are always hounding you, greeting you not with the love of Christ, but with angry faces, and with questions about your works ... What works have you done lately? Do you think you are still saved? I've been asked these type of questions before in person, by people who claim to be Christians, but think they and others have to continually do works to get saved and/or keep their salvation.

There is NO peace with that kind of faith, absolutely NO peace whatsoever ... There can't be any true peace when you don't/can't even know if you are counted as one of His. As we have been falsely accused of here ...

I continue to pray that God will intervene and touch the hearts and lives of many who are following these discussions and others, and who are influenced by the false teachings ...

Holy Spirit .... Reveal Your truth to those who are confused and searching, and who really want to know You, and trust You, and believe in You. Give them the assurance that they belong to You, and that Your promises are true, that You will save them for eternity, and that they can rest in peace, knowing that they have assurance of salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Do what the Bible says:

Romans 10:9-10, “9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.â€

 

[francisdesales]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

...this is a COMMAND to the disciple, not an indication of what will happen to the disciple. We are not going to suffer "trials" DAILY. We are to follow Christ DAILY...

A COMMAND.

Maybe you don't suffer trials daily, but many people do. Jesus promised that those who follow Him WILL SUFFER ....

Did Jesus say that His followers would suffer daily against persecutions?

Are you trying to say that unless a person is persecuted EVERY DAY, he is not a follower of Christ???

Jesus COMMANDS us to follow Him. He is not telling us we will suffer persecutions daily...

We are to DIE TO SELF. This is what it means to "pick up the cross DAILY". NOT that we will suffer daily. That we are to DIE TO SELF. Willingly, as Christ did.

For that is THE manifestation of Love - to give one's life for the sake of another...

By dying to self, we become God-like, as disciples of God are commanded to be, "be holy as the Father".

Regards

 

[vja4Him]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

I definitely see a different gospel ... The gospel of save yourself, because God doesn't keep His promises. And you can't trust His word. So, just work, work, work, and you might get lucky and have a ticket to heaven. But don't get your hopes up, because you CAN'T know if you are saved anyways ....

Ya know, brother, can't you just hear someone saying, "I didn't know I'd have to work my entire life and still risk losing my place in heaven. I can tell some of these brothers can't even control their tongue, and talk about holier-than-thou... Maybe God isn't a loving Father after all. Sounds more like an evil tyrant type to me, and where is this Christian love and foregiveness I keep hearing about? Guess it's all a big lie."

Quite the testimony, isn't it? All this talk about working to get saved...how about asking Jesus to come into your heart and let His love show through? We're definately seeing a lot of man's "work" on this thread, and it ain't a pretty sight. I'll tell you what I'm seeing...I'm seeing the carnal man in all his glory.

Yes, a failed testimony ... a testimony that God doesn't keep His promises. A testimony that is just the same as the people who are caught up in the many cults around the world. This is a lie from the pits of hell people ...

The lie is as old as God's creation ... The devil, Satan, the father of lies, has been deceiving people for thousands of years that you can do it on your own! You don't need the blood of Jesus. You don't need the cross of Jesus. You don't need the Word of God, the holy Bible ....

Just take a little bite of the gospel, but then add some of your own works, and you will be just fine .... What a lie from the enemy, who only wants to destroy you ....

Don't fall for the lie .... Fall for jesus. Come to the cross of Jesus. Trust in Jesus. Trust in what God has told us, not man. God will keep His promises. You can be saved. You can know that you are saved. You can know with absolute certainty that you are saved, and that God will not let you go, and that your name IS written down in heaven.

John 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: I Know Whom I Have Believed ... !!!

How do you KNOW any of this!!!

I know whom I have believed, and He (Jesus) is faithful, even when we are not faithful ... !!! Oh ye of little faith ...

2 Timothy 1:12

Hey, between you and me, I believe you, and I feeel the same way...

But don't let the OSAS police know this - because if you fall away, they'll throw it in your face that you DID NOT BELIEVE.

EVER!!!

Don't you get that, yet???? How many more times must I say this before it sinks in??? Stop ignoring the obvious and start seeking the truth. OSAS is a failure. It proves that all the subjective faith in the world can STILL be denied later down the road...

"You never were saved to begin with". Thus, whatever you say today is NOT secure.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Re: God's Promises are Good Enough for Me ... !!!

you don't even know if your sins have been "really" forgiven...

Sad...

You need to find a new teacher/preacher and a new church ....

1 John 1:7-12

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[a] sin.

I need to find a new teacher? Maybe you should consider reading what you post!!! You provide me with the nails for the OSAS coffin

IF IF IF IF IF IF we walk... we have fellowship...

NO MATTER WHAT the stinkin' OSAS police says, WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP TODAY. IF WE WALK IN THE LIGHT.

Thanks for providing more Scriptural citations that destroy your own position...

the promises are made to THOSE WHO OBEY. If I fail and fall away from God next month, it will be "worse", because I had INDEED KNEW GOD AND YET REJECTED HIM...

Forget about this false interpretation that OSAS forces you into. OSAS forces you to question your relationship with Jesus Christ TODAY - because you CANNOT know if you will fall away next year...

Regards

 

[vja4Him]

Created In Christ Jesus ...

Ephesians 2:8-9

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Time for you to stop boasting in YOUR works. Time to trust in the WORKS of Christ.

As my earlier post suggested, I think that you have not correctly understood what Paul means here by the term "works".

I believe that in Ephesians 2:9, Paul is denying the salvific power of doing the works of Torah, and is not talking about the more general category of “good worksâ€.

Paul is NOT talking about the Torah here. Read down to verse 10:

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are the workmanship of God, and created in Christ Jesus (we have become a new creature in Christ), unto good works (not the Torah works) ....

 

[vja4Him]

Glory and vja,

You guys are slithering away with the Word. Talk about twisting. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

.

Thanks again, Shad...nothing I like better than to partake in the fellowship of his suffering.
He was reviled and did not revile back. :yes

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Amen! And I continue to pray for those who are not yet sure of their salvation, that one day they will find true peace in Jesus, and KNOW that they ARE saved for eternity ....

 

[francisdesales]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

Yes, a failed testimony ... a testimony that God doesn't keep His promises. A testimony that is just the same as the people who are caught up in the many cults around the world. This is a lie from the pits of hell people ...

The lie comes from the OSAS people who refuse to contemplate that God has said something ELSE. In their self-idolatry, they refuse to contemplate that their theology is self-refuting!

There is no promise made to those who REJECT God and remain wicked. They will suffer the wrath of God. Are you familiar with the idea of Covenant? Those who willingly leave the Covenant that God holds out to men are subjected to damnation, even IF they once were considered holy and righteousness. God didn't promise to destroy man's free will and force them to righteous.

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Ez 18:24

Nope. No "OSAS" there...

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb 10: 26-27

You know of another way of being saved, other than the 'sacrifice for sins' made by Christ???

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor 6:9-10

A warning given to saved Christians that their actions were placing them in eternal danger. Oh, we can fall away, no doubt. God allows us to choose.

If after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Peter 2:20-21

Saved me can be worse off than before they were saved. Again, God allows men, in His wrath, to go their evil ways....

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1:17-18

The righteousness of God is revealed as the JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.
The wrath of God is revealed as the ungodly are allowed to wallow in their sinful ways, further separating themselves from His Love.

Scriptures do not tell us that God's promises are made to those who continue to reject His love.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Amen! And I continue to pray for those who are not yet sure of their salvation, that one day they will find true peace in Jesus, and KNOW that they ARE saved for eternity ....

This is often happens when a person's prized false theology is scrutinized and found wanting - but doesn't want to admit that in public.

They twist the arguments - who has ever said anything about works saving us - but that is the continual mantra, here.

They ignore the interlocutor's MANY REPEAT questions, quite common sense questions.

Then, they offer "cheerleading" posts to any others who go to the same "church of OSAS", rather than address glaring problems with the theology that TAKES AWAY certainty of a relationship with Christ TODAY!!!
And finally, they wrap themselves up in the cloak of false humility, telling us they will "pray for us", those "works" people...

Please. Until you can answer some basic questions, you are worshiping idols, the idol of OSAS. This is not a case of ignorance but arrogance in defending the golden calf.

"Eat, drink, and be merry, because you have already been saved"...

Wonderful. Ignore that, as well...

 

[vja4Him]

Good News ... !!!

If you have faith, you have works, mate.

I agree. But one can also have works without faith.
The bible says faith without works is dead. It doesnt says works with out faith is alive.

Surely the question and purpose of this thread is to define and refine what our Salvation is based on, and it is faith. For the christian first and then for the honest seeker. My friend, with your doctrines you have zero chance of leading a man to a saving faith in Christ. You have no good news for him.

Because we know CLEARLY, that works has nothing to do with a saving faith IE, what saves a man's soul. Which is the most important message of the bible and of Christianity, would you not agree?

That is not to say that works are not evidence of a man's salvation however. Not at all. Shall we go on sinning so that grace may abound? By no means.


[quote:21rh68m0]No one can boast because all good things come from God. I cannot claim any good works are my works

In that case you can not claim that your works save you either, and yet you do. Why?

Can we agree that works are evidence of salvation, not a requirement of salvation?

Works are what Christians do IE it is the fruit of salvation.

Chinese people eat chinese food because there are chinese, we eat it because we like it.

Christians do the work of God, because they are children of God. Some people do the works of God because they think it will save them. WRONG! Works won't make you a Christian any more than eating chinese food makes you a chinaman.

You can not be saved by works.

THE END.

Christ said if you Love me you will feed my sheep - not - if you want to keep your salvation you will feed my sheep. Works are the fruit of a love of the Lord, nothing more.

An orange tree can do nothing but produce oranges. A christian can do nothing but produce fruits unto righteousness. SOme trees take along time to grow before they produce fruit. Keep that in mind, it doesnt mean they aint an orange tree before an orange arrives. An orange seed, is an orange tree in the making.[/quote:21rh68m0]

Exactly! And that is where Christianity is so different from the cults. In the cults, you have NO assurance of salvation/paradise, none whatsoever. You go through life, toiling, striving, doing tons of good works, reciting prayers, performing rituals, sacrifices, trying to do it all on your own, and never knowing if you are going to make it ....

That is NOT good news! It is a burden placed on those who count on their own good works ... A very heavy burden that will never be lifted .... Until they come to Jesus, and allow Him to carry our buden, and set us free from the law of sin and death. Once for all ....

Matthew 11:29

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

BUT ... With Christianity ... We can KNOW with absolute certainty that when we have believed in Jesus, as the Bible says, we CAN TRUST Him at His Word .... God is faithful, even when we are not faithful.

God will keep His promises, and when He says we are saved, He means what He says! You can take God at His Word ....

John 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

 

[vja4Him]

Salvation .... Bear Fruit ....

Which works are you talking about ?

It doesn't matter what works anyone is talking about ... WORKS will NOT save anyone.

Christians, true born again believers in Jesus Christ, will have fruit (works) in their lives, which are a result of being saved, and loving God. But those fruits (works) are NOT what saves them.

 

[shad]

Amen! And I continue to pray for those who are not yet sure of their salvation, that one day they will find true peace in Jesus, and KNOW that they ARE saved for eternity ....

You are trusting your own idea of security of salvation. You should not make up your own salvation even though it is so comforting to make up your own, but unfortunately for you, it is Jesus who does. We are secured of salvation if we obey Jesus until the end.

I pray for you OSAS believers.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Good News ... !!!

Exactly! And that is where Christianity is so different from the cults. In the cults, you have NO assurance of salvation/paradise, none whatsoever.

Which Christian here has said they have "NO assurance of salvation"???

Can you please provide a post from someone in this VERY long thread that makes such a statement?

Only in the "mind" of the OSAS who cannot comprehend truth, so they must villify their opponents with false arguments...

Rather than pat yourself on the back, address the issues...

IF you are actually interested in seeking the truth.

Truth will survive scrutiny. This explains why you do not want to scrutinize the OSAS sacred pig, and must turn upside down the position of your interlocutors.