SALVATION

[glorydaz]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

I have already been cufcified with Christ, once. I don't need to be crucified again, or crucify Christ over and over ....

I walk daily with Christ, carry my cross after Christ daily, but I am not carry a cross to be saved over and over again. I'm saved once, crucified with Christ. My sins are forgiven, past, present and future ....

When I sin, I ask Jesus to forgive me, and He does. I don't have to perform any works to be forgiven, or get saved again and again .....

How do you KNOW any of this!!!

If you fall away in the future, this "walking daily with Christ" did not actually take place, according to OSAS 'theory'. You CLAIM you have been crucified with Christ, but many said "Lord, Lord", and we know how OSAS people interpret that Scripture.

According to this theory, you don't even know if your sins have been "really" forgiven...

Sad...

When one has the Holy Spirit indwelling them, they know.
Those who are God's children can never "fall away".

That you can even ask that question says a lot.

We have the assurance of the Holy Spirit...the Comforter who indwells the believer.

Ezekiel 11:19 - And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:27 -And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

He will never leave us or forsake us.

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[shad]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

Gee, that's too bad.
Is this a false assurance?

When you say you can be saved without good works, you are giving folse assurance.

Are you boasting about all that striving and hard work you do?

I am not boasting anything, I am only telling you what Jesus tells us. Jesus says "go therefore make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey every thin I have commanded you".

You tell the world that good works cannot save you, when Jesus tells you to teach them to obey everything He commands us. You sure working hard against Jesus' commandment.

 

[shad]

Glory,

You cannot be saved without being obedient to Jesus. Being obedient to Jesus is all work.

Think about it.
.

 

[glorydaz]

Glory,

You cannot be saved without being obedient to Jesus. Being obedient to Jesus is all work.

Think about it.
.

It's not work to me...it's joy. I delight to do His bidding.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

Gee, that's too bad.
Is this a false assurance?

When you say you can be saved without good works, you are giving folse assurance.

Are you boasting about all that striving and hard work you do?

I am not boasting anything, I am only telling you what Jesus tells us. Jesus says "go therefore make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey every thin I have commanded you".

You tell the world that good works cannot save you, when Jesus tells you to teach them to obey everything He commands us. You sure working hard against Jesus' commandment.

If you're going to make disciples of all nations, then you'd best get your message right.

Tell ya what, brother. I'll put my fruit up against your works any day of the week.

 

[Panin]

Glory,

You cannot be saved without being obedient to Jesus. Being obedient to Jesus is all work.

Think about it.
.

You can believe that if you want, but you cant claim to be a christian if you believe this. You need to realise that.

Christian - means to be in Christ through the efforts of what Christ did and faith in Christ. IE Christ comes in. We dont or cant force him in or force him to stay in. He enters in only through faith, not of works, SO NO MAN CAN BOAST and if you try to twist this scripture, you will fail.

What you are actually doing is boasting about your own holyness and ability to remain saved or to get saved, through your own WORKS. Christians are not allowed to boast.

Think about that mate.

Please?

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Good Works Intelligence Squad ....

BTW, I am not member of WoF. I dont believe healing and speaking in tongues are evidence of true servants or followers.

Well, at least we agree on some points ...

I am not WoF, and I too believe that healing or speaking in tongues are not evidence of salvation.

 

[vja4Him]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

I walk daily with Christ, carry my cross after Christ daily, but I am not carry a cross to be saved over and over again. I'm saved once, crucified with Christ. My sins are forgiven, past, present and future ....

I f you are carrying the cross after Christ daily, you will not preach against Jesus' commandment. You are giving false assurance of "you-don't-need-good-works-to-be-saved". Striving to follow everything that Jesus teaches is indeed a lot of work.

.

The cults all around the world teach that you must have good works to be saved. This teaching of salvation from your works is not from the Bible. It is a cultic teaching.

 

[vja4Him]

Christianity - Unique

You see, the thing about Christianty that is unique, is that we have the teaching of salvation by faith, through the grace of God, without works.

When you start deviating from the Bible, and teaching a salvation through your own works, you have joined the rank and file of the major religions other than Christianity.

-- Hinduism requires works for salvation
-- Buddhism requires works for salvation
-- Islam requires works for salvation
-- Mormonism requires works for salvation
-- Jehovah's Witness requires works for salvation

Other cults also require works for salvation. It's only human nature to believe that we aren't good enough to please God. And you know something, we aren't! You can do all the works you can muster up, but you know what all your works are worth?

Filthy rags .... !!! Do you think filthy rags are going to get you into heaven ... ???

 

[shad]

You can believe that if you want, but you cant claim to be a christian if you believe this. You need to realise that.

So you believe you are saved without being obedient to Jesus. You are just confessing that Jesus is not your Lord.

Christian - means to be in Christ through the efforts of what Christ did and faith in Christ. IE Christ comes in. We dont or cant force him in or force him to stay in. He enters in only through faith, not of works, SO NO MAN CAN BOAST and if you try to twist this scripture, you will fail.

If you have faith, you have works, mate.

What you are actually doing is boasting about your own holyness and ability to remain saved or to get saved, through your own WORKS. Christians are not allowed to boast.

No one can boast because all good things come from God. I cannot claim any good works are my works.

Think about that mate.

Please?

I just did. And I ask you to think of my reply to you too.


please?

 

[vja4Him]

Shad - Stop Twisting My Words ... !!!

I walk daily with Christ, carry my cross after Christ daily, but I am not carry a cross to be saved over and over again. I'm saved once, crucified with Christ. My sins are forgiven, past, present and future ....

I f you are carrying the cross after Christ daily, you will not preach against Jesus' commandment. You are giving false assurance of "you-don't-need-good-works-to-be-saved". Striving to follow everything that Jesus teaches is indeed a lot of work.

.

Shad -- Would you please stop bearing false witness against me!!! You need to repent and aplogize for bearing false witness against me. Anyone who has been following this thread knows that you are bearing false witness against me.

But, those who only recently have begun to follow this thread, without reading through all of the posts, might believe you, and think that I am guilty of your charges!

I have never preached against Jesus' commandments. And you know that! You are twisting my words ....

 

[vja4Him]

Pre-salvation Works ...

When I sin, I ask Jesus to forgive me, and He does. I don't have to perform any works to be forgiven, or get saved again and again .....

You are still confusing Paul's pre-salvation works, with James's works of faith.

The only pre-salvation works are the works of Christ ... !!!

 

[shad]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

The cults all around the world teach that you must have good works to be saved. This teaching of salvation from your works is not from the Bible. It is a cultic teaching.

Your "your works do not save you" preaching is dishonoring Jesus' commandment of "go therefore and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

You are also not honoring Jesus as your Lord because without being obedient to Jesus, you are not saved. Being obedient to Jesus is all work, friend.

 

[vja4Him]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

Taking up my cross is NOT getting or staying saved ... Jesus is simply telling us that if we believe in Him, we will suffer for our belief in Him. There will be trials along the way, while serving God.

This a failure to understand that this is a COMMAND to the disciple, not an indication of what will happen to the disciple. We are not going to suffer "trials" DAILY. We are to follow Christ DAILY...

A COMMAND.

Regards

Maybe you don't suffer trials daily, but many people do. Jesus promised that those who follow Him WILL SUFFER ....

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Romans - James Contradiction ... ???

Why do you guys continue to bear false witness against me? You are only making your witness look very bad ....

Where have I taught universal redemption? Where? I want to see the post, now. Show me! post it here for everyone to see clearly ....

And please do not avoid this .... I'm archiving the posts for evidence .... If you cannot provide the evidence, then apologize to me for bearing false witness against me .... Thank you!

There really is no contradiction between Romans and James. We are saved ONLY by the WORKS of Jesus Christ, period.

So how can you NOT be accused of universal redemption, how can you DENY that you do not teach that Stalin and Hitler are in heaven???
If man plays absolutely no part in his salvation, then you have torn Christianity down. There is no further need to read Scriptures, worship God, or do any good deeds, since "Christ did it all, already and we can do nothing".

So Paul was NOT being sarcastic to 'drink, eat, and be merry"...

I am curious to know why he even BOTHERED to preach the Gospel and suffer all that he describes in 2 Corinthians...

This is the logical conclusion of "Jesus did everything, I don't have to do anything" craziness...

One is rightfully accused of preaching a false gospel of libertinism...

Regards

 

[Drew]

Re: Christianity - Unique

You see, the thing about Christianty that is unique, is that we have the teaching of salvation by faith, through the grace of God, without works.

This is a complex topic. But I will say this - I believe that Paul's denial of saving power of "works" has been widely misunderstood. I believe that compelling arguments can be made to the effect that when Paul refers to "works", he is not referring to "good works" in general, but rather to the works of the Law of Moses. This is a critical distinction.

Paul teaches clearly in Romans 2 - and elsewhere - that "good works" are indeed required for ultimate salvation. But these are not the "good works" of "unaided moral effort", they are instead the good works produced by the Holy Spirit. And it is faith alone that results in the giving of the Spirit.

But one things at a time. I am prepared to argue that when Paul says we are not saved by works, he is really saying that it is not only Jews who can be saved - the ones who have the Law of Moses.

 

[shad]

Re: Shad - Stop Twisting My Words ... !!!

Shad -- Would you please stop bearing false witness against me!!! You need to repent and aplogize for bearing false witness against me. Anyone who has been following this thread knows that you are bearing false witness against me.

I am only reflecting what you are saying, mate.

I have never preached against Jesus' commandments. And you know that! You are twisting my words ....

You are preaching "our work does not save you", in other words, you are saying our work dont count. Being obedient to Jesus is His followers at most duty because He is our Lord. Being obedient to Jesus is all work, friend. And you are preaching "your work do not save you." If you are saved you will have work.

 

[vja4Him]

I Know Whom I Have Believed ... !!!

How do you KNOW any of this!!!

I know whom I have believed, and He (Jesus) is faithful, even when we are not faithful ... !!! Oh ye of little faith ...

2 Timothy 1:12

That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet I am not ashamed, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him for that day.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: Shad - Stop Twisting My Words ... !!!

I walk daily with Christ, carry my cross after Christ daily, but I am not carry a cross to be saved over and over again. I'm saved once, crucified with Christ. My sins are forgiven, past, present and future ....

I f you are carrying the cross after Christ daily, you will not preach against Jesus' commandment. You are giving false assurance of "you-don't-need-good-works-to-be-saved". Striving to follow everything that Jesus teaches is indeed a lot of work.

.

Shad -- Would you please stop bearing false witness against me!!! You need to repent and aplogize for bearing false witness against me. Anyone who has been following this thread knows that you are bearing false witness against me.

But, those who only recently have begun to follow this thread, without reading through all of the posts, might believe you, and think that I am guilty of your charges!

I have never preached against Jesus' commandments. And you know that! You are twisting my words ....

I'm with you, brother. Neither of us has ever said we aren't to obey the Lord.
We just don't believe we have to work in order to be saved. When we're saved, we show forth the love of God...it's His work, not ours that deserves all glory.

How can someone claim their works have any part in saving them when it's Jesus' work on the cross and His resurrection that saved them? Talk about taking the glory away from our Lord.

Sometimes our work is to stay out of a situation. Sometimes it's to hold our tongue. Sometimes it's to allow others to do something for us. Often it's to pray and share the Word. It isn't about doing, it's about obeying. When we disobey, we aren't unsaved...we're chastened by the Lord. This is basic Christianity 101.

 

[vja4Him]

God's Promises are Good Enough for Me ... !!!

you don't even know if your sins have been "really" forgiven...

Sad...

You need to find a new teacher/preacher and a new church ....

1 John 1:7-12

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[a] sin.

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Are not God's promises good enough ... ??? I will say that God's promises ARE GOOD ENOUGH for me ... !!! Can I get an Amen from anyone ... ???